Amp upgrade

[Dressel]

Dear forum members I have been using my AVR to listen to my music for last 10 years I have connected my Turntable , and all other digital sources to it.

I possess Warf Pacific Evo II Floor standers. and VDH SKLINE biwired cable.

Iwant to buy some serious amp which is tonally dry and with out any coloring.

my budget is 80k.
please guide.

 

[apk]

A few questions that will help with guiding you....
1. What is your music preference?
2. Dimensions of your room?
3. Are you open to buying used?
4. Do you prefer an integrated amplifier or a pre-power combo?
5. Do you need the amplifier to have a phono-in so that you can connect your turntable?
6. Where are you based? This will help with recommendations on places to audition.
7. What is your primary source of music? What are your other sources? CD player, PC audio, FM Radio etc?

Rs 80K is a good budget, and you should be able to get a good amplifier with that budget. If you are open to buying used, you might be able to get an even better deal.

Best,
APK

 

[Dressel]

Thanks APK for your responce
1. What is your music preference?
[I]My primary listening preference is old Hindi , Indian classical music and soft rock. but paucity of good recordings has essentially shifted my listening genres to western music. I do enjoy western classical s and light instrumental music especially the accoustic.[/I]
2. Dimensions of your room?
Recently I ve expanded my music room to around 18x20 ft. I also have DIY absorbant pannels made of glass wool hung on my back wall.
[/I
3. Are you open to buying used?
yes. But shouldnt I be worried about the piece of machine I ultimately might get.
4. Do you prefer an integrated amplifier or a pre-power combo?
Iam really confused but would luv to go for a pre-power combo. If budget permits
5. Do you need the amplifier to have a phono-in so that you can connect your turntable?
I already have pro-ject phonostage with my pro-ject genie TT.
6. Where are you based? This will help with recommendations on places to audition.
I stay in Kolhapur MH. Nearest place for audition is Mumbai or Pune may be:sad:.
7. What is your primary source of music? What are your other sources? CD
player, PC audio, FM Radio etc?
I ve a good collection of records, but main source still digital I presently use a panasonic BD player, my apple Ipod and a media player. next project after amp shall be a good audiophile grade source...some universal player may be.


I have been waiting for quite a while now to buy some thing good.and wish to go a step ahead of the NADs and cambridge and MARRANTZS..of course not discounting them by any regards...But need some real good suggestions or guidence by you senior guys.
Would be in touch with you...
DRESSEL.

 

[Dressel]

I ve huge hopes from you guys .. with out your guidance I wont be able to take up this project. Mr APK , all other stalwarts please come forward and speakout.. Iam desperately waiting.
dressel.

 

[efernand1]

Hi Dressel,

I personally don't use a turntable, my dad used to use the same when I was a kid..somehow the legacy has not passed on....but from what I read and heard, Cambridge Audio, Marantz and NAD have some decent amplifiers ..the HIGH end ones which work well for turntables where you can use them in pure direct mode....there are ample reviews and videos on the net to support the same....

Can anyone offer me advice on getting a good turntable,pre amp and speakers set up? | AVForums

Other brands I can think of is Rotel or Audio Lab which would cost more and hence you need to firstly see the reviews and videos of the Higher end models (reference series) of Marantz or Cambridge Audio and take a sound decision...

There are some turntable users on HFV and perhaps you need to conduct a search in post or threads for your needs...

In terms of getting a good universal player, would suggest to go for Cambridge Audio Azur 651BD or 752BD......plays everything and has a variety of connectivity options...The Oppo is also good but you need to evaluate what appeals to you in performance, expectations and budget.

Hope this helps...

 

[hemantwaghe]

Hi Dressel,

I personally don't use a turntable, my dad used to use the same when I was a kid..somehow the legacy has not passed on....but from what I read and heard, Cambridge Audio, Marantz and NAD have some decent amplifiers ..the HIGH end ones which work well for turntables where you can use them in pure direct mode....there are ample reviews and videos on the net to support the same....

Can anyone offer me advice on getting a good turntable,pre amp and speakers set up? | AVForums

Other brands I can think of is Rotel or Audio Lab which would cost more and hence you need to firstly see the reviews and videos of the Higher end models (reference series) of Marantz or Cambridge Audio and take a sound decision...

There are some turntable users on HFV and perhaps you need to conduct a search in post or threads for your needs...

In terms of getting a good universal player, would suggest to go for Cambridge Audio Azur 651BD or 752BD......plays everything and has a variety of connectivity options...The Oppo is also good but you need to evaluate what appeals to you in performance, expectations and budget.

Hope this helps...

Why not check our forum? @Dressel @efernand1 - ample advise is there on forum and you need to research.

Also @efernand1 he is having a very good phono stage - so why phono capable amp is reqd??

By the way I have seen , also tried Wharfadales mached with Yamaha. in between yamahas premium 2 channel was available at good discount.

also enquire to all dealers about all possible inventory in your budgeyt and then resarch or ask pinpoint questions

also it is worthwhile if you allot 10 to 15 K for audion - drive with your speakers and TT phonostage and visit dealers in pune/ mumbai - you may finf a 40 -50 k amp is perfect match and in the end save money

By the way in Pune heard Norge pre power and it was proved to be far better amp - even better than 80-90 k Acostic Portrait one!!

 

[apk]

Hi Dressel,

Without getting into specific recommendations, let me make a few suggestions that I hope will help you select the correct amplifier.

The overall sound quality of any system is a combination of the speaker, amplifier, source player & source material. To be able to get the sound that 'you' like, you will need a 'well matched' system consisting of all these 4 elements. I have left out cables and interconnects here for the sake of simplicity.

Let us start with the source material; As they say, Garbage In = Garbage Out. Hence if you are going to use mp3 from your iPod or Media player, then expect the quality of sound to be poor, no matter how great your audio system is. The better your audio system is, the more accurately it will play the mp3 song, which means the blemishes will be shown clearly. I am not advocating that you get rid of all your mp3's; am just saying that if you are mostly going to be using mp3's, then it is not worth investing in a high end amplifier. The best digital source material will be either CD Audio, FLAC or any digital music saved as lossless. You can use a software such as EAC to 'rip' CD files 'losslessly'

Coming to music players - here you have many options. If most of your music is in CDs, then it makes sense to get a good CD player. DVD playes and Blue-Ray players are not the best options for playing music (I make an exception for Oppo players and other high end options). However, if the majority of your music is in the form of mp3/FLAC/lossless files, then you will need a good sound card (if you are playing from your PC) or a good DAC (again can be used with PCs, media players etc). Even if you are not buying a DAC now, do keep this in mind as a future purchase. Of course, your LP records can be played straight through the phono.

You already have speakers, so I will not comment on the speaker part of the equation.

Coming to amplifiers, you will need to get an amplifier (either integrated or pre-power) which best matches the rest of your components (speakers, source player). Also, you need to keep in mind that each one of us hears music differently and hence it is very important for you to hear the amplifier before you buy.

So where does this leave you? I would say, hunt down audio shops in Mumbai & Pune. Take your favourite music (on a disc or memory stick) and visit these places. Try and hear various amplifiers (don't worry about integrated vs pre-power as of now. Try out both) paired with wharfedale speakers similar to the ones you have. Listen to various combinations of amplifiers with wharfedale speakers and try and get an idea of the differences that each amplifier can bring out. Do not be in a hurry to buy. Listen extensively 'cause you will have to live with the amplifier for a long time. See if any of the dealers will give you a home audition. Some will, especially if they realize that you are serious about buying.

Your thread was specific to amplifiers, but as you can read from my post, I would urge you to not look at the amplifier in isolation. Rather, the amplifier should be just one of the components of a 'well matched' music system - due importance needs to be given to each component so that it does not become the weakest link in your chain.

You have a decent budget, and many good amplifiers will fit the bill for you. Which one ultimately depends upon your ears!

All the Best,
APK

P.S. I noticed that FM Hemantwaghe has also posted a reply while I was typing. His suggestion of taking your speakers along (if feasible) for auditions is an excellent one.

 

[Dressel]

Thanks a lot all of you...
I completely agree with you all. we have to build the system as a whole. alright . And thats the reason Iam upgrading from an AV System to stereo, In the process I ve changed the speakers, then amp and source lastly. also Ive a decent pair of interconnects n speaker cables.
Iam already going to places listening different systems. but lifting tower speakers and going to various places would be maddening experience.
and before even doing that I need to shortlist afew brands.
I want to go one step ahead of NADs,MARRANTZs, AND CAMBRIDGEs.
Idont know any thing about NORGE.
now I have some specific questions.
1. can we deal with online dealers safely.. not only interms of the quality of product we get but shipping etc..
2. what is customs duty on such products especially used ones
3. If I get someyhing like KRELL or NAIT, Or BRISTON in my budget should I go ahead and make a bid or buy? Does any body have first hand experience with these?
4.how is `advance acoustic MAX 450' rated.
Please guide.
once again APK deserves a special mention for excellent elaboration .
Thanks.
DRESSEL

 

[hemantwaghe]

By the way how come you are going to decide the amp is "totaly dry" and "without colour"?
I mean which reference recording you are going to use?/ and have you heard the artist / musician live ? same tracks which are in your cd??

 

[Dressel]

I consider Following tracks: COME AWAY WITH ME Norah Jones, MONEY FOR NOTHING Dire Strates, HOTEL CALIFORNIA eagles, ANOTHER BRICK PINK FLOYD,
my favourite vocalist, Diana Krall
And few instrumentals symphonies by VIVALDI on vinyl LPs as my referance.
Of course I am in to serious listening since past 15 yrs.
and of course nobody from this part of world has heard them live.
Ive listened to these trackts on NAD-CAEDENCE- PRO JECT COMBO.

 

[jai1611]

4.how is `advance acoustic MAX 450' rated.

Dont know that specific model. Generally not a well regarded brand

 

[IndianEars]

Advance Acoustic products are SUPERB Value For Money products.

They are in the NAD - Mid fi category.

Definately worth a serious consideration, at that price point.

 

[jai1611]

Advance Acoustic products are SUPERB Value For Money products.

They are in the NAD - Mid fi category.

Definately worth a serious consideration, at that price point.

Checked them out a few years back. At that time they had a lot of reliability issues, don't know if things have improved since

 

[apk]

1. can we deal with online dealers safely.. not only interms of the quality of product we get but shipping etc..

For something like amplifiers, I would suggest that you not buy online, unless you have heard the amplifier extensivelly and are very sure about it's sound signature.

If you listen to vairous amplifiers at a dealer (and if you have indicated to him that you wish to buy), then it is only fair that you buy from that dealer in case you get a decent deal from him. It is unjust to use the dealer to listen to the amplifiers, and then buy online.

Another approach is to contact a few HFV FM's in and around your locality, and ask them for an opportunity to listen to their system. Try and approach FMs who either have music tastes similar to yours or a music system similar to the one that you wish to step up. From what I know of this forum (been a member for 5 years now!), most FMs are more than happy to oblige and help a fellow audio enthusiast. You also get to understand their experience of setting up an audio system, and a lot of other audio 'gyan'. Once you understand a few more amplifiers in this manner, you can then 'safely' purchase online. You can even look at the classified sections on the forum for good deals (which do come up often!) if you are open to buying used.

3. If I get someyhing like KRELL or NAIT, Or BRISTON in my budget should I go ahead and make a bid or buy? Does any body have first hand experience with these?

Again, all these amplifiers are good (a step up from the Marantz, NADs & CAs), and will work well with the right partnering equipment. The key here is 'partnering equipment'. That is why I suggest that you meet a few FMs who either own or have owned amplifiers such as the Krell, Bryston, Naim etc. There are many FMs in Mumbai who own/have owned these amplifiers. They may be in a better position to advise you on the 'synergy' of these amplifiers with other components.

Best,
APK.

 

[Dressel]

Thanks APK,
That sounds quite logical. We really need to trust our own ears to select the appropriate gear. Even the reviews from reputed magazines often turn out to be biased.
Problem is my far away location from the metros. people around me don't even understand what I am talking about! their imagination about the highest end audio ends at about BOSE!! Hence the advice from forum members becomes more than handy.
Unfortunately it appears that apart from you there is hardly anybody interested in sharing ideas.
Can you suggest some places in Mumbai for auditions?
Thanks once again.

 

[apk]

Hi Dressel,

I can totally understand your fustration with lack of audio options in a smaller city/town. I face a similar problem living in Ahmedabad. There is nothing much that you can do about it - just use whatever opportunities you get when you travel to metros (for work, vacation, marriages, etc) to check out audio stores or visit FMs. Living in a non-metro location, we have to be more pro-active and patient to fulfill our audio dreams.

Do not get disappointed by lack of responses to your thread. Most of the folks here are busy people and may not be checking HFV very regularly. Besides, your thread may have also got lost in the large number of new threads & other discussions taking place on HFV.

I would suggest that you spend some time looking at various posts in the amplifier section of the forum. You will get to understand the purchases made by vairous FMs and their thought process while shortlisting amplifiers. See if you can connect to some of them them over PM, especially if they have gone through a similar process as you wish to.

If you do a search on 'audio dealers in Mumbai' or 'audio dealers in Pune', you will be able to find some thread on this topic. You will get a fair idea about the vairous dealers present in both these places.

Best,
APK

 

[miroflex]

Hello Dressel,

I can empathize with you on your being marooned in Kolhapur. I faced similar problems in Allahabad. Fortunately, I was able to travel to Delhi, Pune, Bangalore and Mumbai and to audition some audio equipment there. You may also be able to break out to Mumbai and Pune and with a little bit of luck, hear some equipment worth listening to.

You have just missed out on listening to a very delectable Naim setup put on sale by a fellow member in Mysore. The complete setup, including speakers and interconnects, though not speaker cables, was priced at a jaw-dropping Rs 60k. If you go through the "For Sale By Owner" diligently you may come across such mouth-watering deals in future.

Meanwhile, keep asking and listening to equipment as well as fellow members views.

All the best in your quest!

 

[jai1611]

Here's another: http://www.hifivision.com/sale-owner/50885-accoustic-portrait-pre-power.html

Should suit the kind of music you listen to. Well under your budget but worth considering IMHO

 

[Rajiv]

Hi,

Another good combination .

http://www.hifivision.com/sale-owne...5-2-music-hall-cd-player-cd25-2-epos-m5i.html

Regards
Rajiv

 

[Dressel]

Hi Guys,
Really appreciate your replys.
A bit of development here.
Today morning I received a PM from one of our FMs directing to the link Mr Jai has shared here inthe thread. Iwas / am pretty excited about the ACOUSTIC portrait pre power combo. The seller has put it on hold for some other FM already. but that drove my curiosity towards AP, called up the shop , one Mr Shiva answered, very friendly, They have come up with SWARA INTEGRATED. Essentially same power amp but integrated with solid state preamp( Why...? explanation given
was technological advance). This is priced at around 40 to 45K. now the question is, a separate pre / power to be preferred or the Int. with same components?
Mr Shiva assured me that it would go well with a wide range of speakers AND play ESPECIALLY GOOD the ACOUSTIC AND SOFT MUSIC.
Any of you guys listened the AP. Of course Iam already thinking of a Bangalore trip.
Lastly, How do we rate Music hall among all this (thanks once again Rajiv for pointing that offer).But I really want to have a nice sounding amp rather than low cost.

dressel.