Any FM in Mumbai with RAALs and kind enough to invite me over for a listen?

[k-pad]

Hi all,
Looking for a set up in a small room.
My journey so far here:

HT in a small 10x12 room at around Rs 3.5L

May become a long one soliciting suggestions and advice. Dear all, Been passively reading this forum ever since I decided to set up an HT. Trust me I have read so much in the last three months, and now I am left with more questions than when I knew nothing and started over. So, I thought I...

www.hifivision.com

During auditions, I badly fell in love with the Folded Motion Tweeters of the big model Martin Logans 60XTis. But they are kinda too big for my room. Further reading suggested that the RAAL ribbon tweeter is even better.

Are there speakers with RAAL tweeters available in India? Could anyone who has experienced it help?

Regardless of the title, I would be grateful even for a word of mouth view of someone who has experienced the RAALs. Are they distinctly better than the AMT or FMT tweeters found in most models (Wharfedale, Emotiva, Dali, Martin Logan, etc)?

Would be really grateful for any kind of advice.
Thanks

 

[pks.k]

I was interested like you to buy a speaker with ribbon tweeter some years ago. Don't have any listening experience though,
You can buy xtz 99.25 LCR in India, but these speakers equipped with FOUNTEK ribbon tweeters.
For RAAL speakers take a look at http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/spkrlist.html.
You have to import by yourself ..

 

[Nitin K]

As pks has suggested, Ascend speakers have the Raal tweeters . Philharmonic speakers too have them but they are difficult to get hold of & hear especially in India as they are made in small batches. You could go through these links.

Philharmonic Audio

www.philharmonicaudio.com

Philharmonic BMR Speaker Review

The curved sidewalls are inacceptable, design-wise. Lots of costly speakers used curved sidewalls, it helps with performance. To have the same performance with a traditional box cabinet would likely mean thicker panels and more robust bracing. Besides just internal performance, I wonder...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[keith_correa]

FWIW, a close friend of mine who resides in the US has the Philharmonic BMR monitor which uses a RAAAAAAAAAAL tweeter. He says that the sonics are the best he has heard from any speaker this size and easily in a price range double of what the Philharmonic BMR's cost. I have no doubt that much of this stems from the RAAL and from Dennis Murphy who did the xover. He says that he has heard the SS 8545 woofer used in other speakers and those didn't sound half as good as the Philharmonic BMR speaker.

IMO, even if the choice of drivers can make/break a design, like in all things audio, the implementation of the enclosure and crossover is also tremendously critical [even if the tweeter is a RAAL] so you'd do well to look at the sum of the parts rather than a single part.

This may not help much but am just putting this out here in case it does.

 

[bloredude]

RAAL are some of the finest ribbons but I tend to agree with FM Keith. Implementation is the operative word.

Among the entry to mid level segments, DALI has the best ribbons. If you get a chance, hear a DALI speaker with ribbons. You will be pleasantly surprised.

 

[k-pad]

I was interested like you to buy a speaker with ribbon tweeter some years ago. Don't have any listening experience though,
You can buy xtz 99.25 LCR in India, but these speakers equipped with FOUNTEK ribbon tweeters.
For RAAL speakers take a look at http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/spkrlist.html.
You have to import by yourself ..

Thank you. Importing will have to be done blind, and comes with the extra pain of shipping costs and customs, right?
Will check if it will be worth the effort.
Thanks again.

As pks has suggested, Ascend speakers have the Raal tweeters . Philharmonic speakers too have them but they are difficult to get hold of & hear especially in India as they are made in small batches. You could go through these links.

Philharmonic Audio

www.philharmonicaudio.com

Philharmonic BMR Speaker Review

The curved sidewalls are inacceptable, design-wise. Lots of costly speakers used curved sidewalls, it helps with performance. To have the same performance with a traditional box cabinet would likely mean thicker panels and more robust bracing. Besides just internal performance, I wonder...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Thanks, Nitin.
Will check them.

FWIW, a close friend of mine who resides in the US has the Philharmonic BMR monitor which uses a RAAAAAAAAAAL tweeter. He says that the sonics are the best he has heard from any speaker this size and easily in a price range double of what the Philharmonic BMR's cost. I have no doubt that much of this stems from the RAAL and from Dennis Murphy who did the xover. He says that he has heard the SS 8545 woofer used in other speakers and those didn't sound half as good as the Philharmonic BMR speaker.

IMO, even if the choice of drivers can make/break a design, like in all things audio, the implementation of the enclosure and crossover is also tremendously critical [even if the tweeter is a RAAL] so you'd do well to look at the sum of the parts rather than a single part.

This may not help much but am just putting this out here in case it does.

True, the few RAAL equipped speakers mentioned here and from what I have read elsewhere, the crossover is done by some great people. Mr. Murphy himself has done it for a couple of small companies that I read about.
Thanks

 

[alphacentury100]

Dennis Murphy used to design most of the crossovers for SALK speakers before starting Phill Harmonic. Not sure if he still designs the crossover for Salks.

 

[k-pad]

How do define better?

Just that if one likes the sound of ribbons, everything I read suggested the RAALs were the cream.

I am not active on diyaudio, audiocircle, or hifivision anymore but check this 10 year old thread out.

My systems

7.2 for living room, 4.1 for bedroom. Pictures of Selah designed Tempesta Extreme and RC4 (no subwoofer) Sources (same for both systems). CD - Marantz KI Pearl Lite DVD - Marantz 5005 Game - Wii and PS3 Media Center - XBMC (bedroom media center still to be delivered) AVR: Living...

www.hifivision.com

That's a beautiful set-up.

There have been several changes to the electronics (Media players and DACs added, Onkyo swapped for a Denon, Arcam swapped for a Marantz, etc....) but the speakers are the same. I am very private (even more so post Covid). Old audio friends know where to find me.

Also, during my search, happened to correspond with Salk, and was asking him about RAALs with his Song Tower IIs.
He was like, I wouldn't put a RAAL today in the STIIs as it will make it very expensive. And if I had to change anything for the better, I would probably put in a beryllium tweeter.

Either way, have settled on something lesser expensive for a small room for now.
Will get back on the stereo bandwagon some other day.

Nice to see an old FM resurface though
Cheers

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Hi Navin, are you the same from team bhp?

 

[navin advani]

Hi Navin, are you the same from team bhp?

If you are referring to the moderator, yes I'm the same senile old fool.

There used to be a time on TeamBHP when I was asked "are you the same 'navin' from diyaudio.com?"

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Please you are well respected, I haven't seen you around here much, pleasure to make your acquaintance.

I am not interested in cars otherwise I would have signed up and said hello there.

What is your current home audio system?

 

[navin advani]

Please you are well respected, I haven't seen you around here much, pleasure to make your acquaintance.

I am not interested in cars otherwise I would have signed up and said hello there.

What is your current home audio system?

Post #8 has the basic system but since that link is from 2012 a few things have changed.

Notably. Media streamers and Topping D70s DACs have been added to each system. The Onkyo has been replaced with a Denon 7200 and the Arcam with a Marantz 7013. The SEAS drivers are being replaced with the latest versions of the same (currently in transit). The TVs have changed I got a Sony 65" and an LG 55" (not my choice it was a gift) to replace the old TVs. Can't remember what else. I rather spend time listening to music than constantly tinkering with the hardware.

Oh yeah, and I got the itch to build a new speaker. Something with a folded ribbon and not the rubbish ones from Parts express. Maybe the Satori 60mm AMT. Let's see. Right now I am looking for a suitable midrange. I have asked Adam from Madisound for suggestions. He's a good bloke, reminds me a lot of Dennis Oullet (from Solen).

The internet is not my domain so I don't spend a lot of time on forums. I used to be active on audiocircle with Rick Craig and on diyaudio with Dave (from Victoria CA) but not much anymore.

 

[k-pad]

Jim is an experienced designer. Dennis has moved on with other ventures.

I am a little intrigued with AMTs but other than the Mundorf I have heard any that I like and the Mundorfs are rather expensive. There is a new Satori AMT 60 out that I'd like to try but I can't find a midrange that will match it and yet go low enough so I can make a 3 way out of it. In effect, one needs a very resolving midrange that can go from 250-5000Hz.

I got the itch to build something. I get the itch every few years though I must say as I have gotten older that itch is less frequent.

I forget to reach for my mobile. I always just walk up to the CD rack. Usually, the mobile is in another room. Most people know to reach me on my landline if they need to talk. In my office and home, we normally use landlines. Mobiles are useful when traveling though.

You should give it a go!
A good folded motion with a good mid-range.
Or even something like the Dali Opticon, with an AMT + dome...

 

[navin advani]

(1) Just reply to a post as usual by clicking the "Reply" link under the post.
(2) Before hitting "Post reply", go over the rest of the posts, and keep repeating the step 1.

Testing. Thanks, Bloredude. It seems to have worked.

Eight Audio/ Audify deals in SB Acoustics in India. Talk to them; they may suggest you a matching mid-range.

Don't let the itch fade away. I'm in the process of making Curt Campbell's Statement Monitors: 'Time for another DIY Speaker project' https://www.hifivision.com/threads/time-for-another-diy-speaker-project.86270/
The boxes and crossovers are being made and the speakers will reach me soon. Hope to compare them with the ones you make; just to see how they fare..

Not really. Just need to try.

Sure, you can do that. In fact, you don't need to quote the part of post that you want to reply. Just click the reply button and the whole post would be quoted. But quoting multiple posts and replying at the end would make sense only if those posts are similar in content. Else it will appear out of context. Isn't it?

Anyways, if you prefix @ before the forum handle, that particular FM to whom you're addressing would be hyperlinked and he would get an alert (with a red dot on the bell icon on the top) when he logs in next.

The earlier forum format had "multi-quote" option. This new format is a bit different and more versatile I must say. If you've noticed, I've split you post, highlighting only the content that needs to be replied to just by clicking 'enter'.

Capt.,

The AMT60 needs a mid that can operate out to 5k. This is not uncommon with ribbon/folded ribbon tweeters. The NeoCD3.0 that you are using in the Statements is an exception but even so, I'd stick to 3k or so with them. See Troels's build here

Monitor W15NeoSEAS W15CY001 +

I got a pair of towers that use the Neo3.0 too, the magnesium cones of the Excel woofers and mid-woofers have suffered some damage due to the hot humid climate in Mumbai. SEAS has offered replacements at a discounted price and these are on the way. See pics of the older magnesium cones. SEAS claims that the new coating they have used is better suited for tropical climes.

Thanks for the trick about using the @ to flag a forum member.

 

[captrajesh]

The NeoCD3.0 that you are using in the Statements is an exception but even so, I'd stick to 3k or so with them.

Seeing the very same specs, I had bought the Neos and almost got the Revelator 8531split cone Woofers paying fully. But FM Aniket, whom I had originally contacted for making boxes and x-overs dissuaded me from getting them stating the same thing that you did. Thankfully, the seller agreed to refund me. I then considered the Statements but almost abandoned the plan due to non-availability of Dayton Woofers. Only after I got the Woofers gratis from FM @kapvin that I went ahead and bought the Tangband mids.

the magnesium cones of the Excel woofers and mid-woofers have suffered some damage due to the hot humid climate in Mumbai. SEAS has offered replacements at a discounted price and these are on the way. See pics of the older magnesium cones.

Oh! they are in terrible shape. It's nice of SEAS to agree to replace them at discounted price.

Thanks for the trick about using the @ to flag a forum member.

My pleasure.

 

[navin advani]

Seeing the very same specs, I had bought the Neos and almost got the Revelator 8531split cone Woofers paying fully.

Oh! they are in terrible shape. It's nice of SEAS to agree to replace them at discounted price.

My pleasure.

Hmm... what was your budget for the 3 way (Statements)? I ask because Adam at Madisound told me about a 3 way using the new Model 4055 Mid-range/tweeter module and either the SB Acoustics Ceramic woofer or the SEAS L22 Aluminium woofer. I think the price was $1000/pr without cabinets. https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-2-midrange/morel-tm4055-8-tweeter-midrange/

 

[captrajesh]

Hmm... what was your budget for the 3 way (Statements)? I ask because Adam at Madisound told me about a 3 way using the new Model 4055 Mid-range/ tweeter module and either the SB Acoustics Ceramic woofer or the SEAS L22 Aluminium woofer. I think the price was $1000/pr without cabinets. https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-2-midrange/morel-tm4055-8-tweeter-midrange/

Didn't start with any budget in mind but courtesy this forum, my whole project including the boxes is costing much less than that. I bought the Neos for 7k from an FM. Mids cost me little over 14k. For woofers, courier, packing and handling cost me about 1k. A friend of mine is making the x-overs from Syco Electronics, Kolkata for about 6k & the boxes are being made for all of 9k at Hyderabad. Things like binding posts, screws, felt, polyfill etc. will not be more than 2-3 k I guess. So the total cost for me will be roughly 40k.

Thanks for linking the Morel drivers. They're are looking good.

 

[navin advani]

Didn't start with any budget in mind but courtesy this forum, my whole project including the boxes is costing much less than that. I bought the Neos for 7k from an FM. Mids cost me little over 14k and the courier, packing + handling cost me about 1k. A friend of mine is making the x-overs from Syco Electronics, Kolkata for about 6k & the boxes are being made for all of 9k. Things like binding posts, screws, felt, polyfill etc. will not be more than 2-3 k I guess. So the total cost for me will be roughly 40k.

Thanks for linking the Morel drivers. They're are looking good.

Lovely. This is truly a collaborative effort. Wonderful to see this.