girishtd8262
Well-Known Member
I tried playing with usb type A cable .but it's only for pc not for android phones
With windows download Cambridge usb 2.0 drive then you can play
Apple music to launch lossless streaming
- Thread starter Pardeep Bansal
- Start date
With windows download Cambridge usb 2.0 drive then you can play
Settling with connecting Chromecast Audio to CXN digital input for ease of use. Showing PCM/ 44.1 KHz on CXN screen, so must be CD quality which covers 90% of catalog
Ideally inbuilt Chromecast in CXN V2 should show up for streaming in apple music app. Hope CXN updates take care of that and redundant CCA device is not required
souravin
Well-Known Member
I'm enjoying this quality (24/96) through wired connection - lighting converter to Audio Quest jitterbug to Audio Quest USB A to B cable to Schiit Multibit DAC.
@OM_2K19
Does your Samsung have eARC ?
Am a novice when it comes to operating systems and the tech being currently discussed. But I have read that Dolby Atmos needs eARC to work for Tidal. Wondering if that is the case for Apple music too because Apple TV 4k with eARC has no issues with Dolby Atmos.
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ATMOS metadata can be transmitted over lossy DD+ (Requires ARC) or lossless TrueHD (Requires eARC). Tidal uses DD+ for its ATMOS tracks. So one doesn't need eARC; regular ARC will do just fine for Tidal. To date, all the streaming platforms are leveraging DD+ for their ATMOS contents to preserve bandwidth. Dolby TrueHD bitrates average around 6,000 kbps for Dolby Atmos at 48 kHz with peak data rates up to a maximum of 18,000 kbps for high sampling rate multichannel content. That said, I am assuming Apple ATMOS is also on DD+ instead of TrueHD (not tested, though) to preserve bandwidth.
PS: As per Apple's KB, only Apple TV 4K can pass the ATMOS metadata down the chain as of now (whether it's over DD+ or TrueHD, still unknown).
yup via airplay i was streaming thru pc with shairport to my marantz amp
Thank you, @OM_2K19 for a detailed explanation. So, both Tidal and Apple Music having ATMOS enabled on devices with eARC is just a coincidence or something deliberately done by the developers. ATMOS on Netflix and Prime work fine on Arc so there is no reason why it should not on music apps. Very unlikely that they are doing Spatial on TrueHD.
Also, did the Apple app on your Samsung auto update to the new version with lossless enabled or did you manually update it ?
They deliberately put a bug in the code to restrict the ATMOS access only to Apple TV 4K. That's their strategy to sell more hardware. They offer the Music service cheap but to listen to that; you have to buy their expansive hardware.
The Music app automatically got updated on my TV, but I have no technical way of verifying if it's playing lossless or AAC.
Ok got it. I almost fell for it and was thinking of getting the Apple 4k TV. It's on hold now.
Whether it is playing lossless or not is just a curiosity. My old ears can't tell the difference anyway
Just wait for few months; once Spotify Hi-Fi is available, it will shake up the whole streaming industry. It not only has better discoverability but also super easy to stream to 90% of audio equipment on the planet.Ok, got it. I almost fell for it and was thinking of getting the Apple 4k TV. It's on hold now.
Whether it is playing lossless or not is just a curiosity. My old ears can't tell the difference anyway
Edit:- If you have a Firestick 4K, you can still enjoy the ATMOS music via Tidal. I am assuming Apple ATMOS tracks will perform similarly, if not better. If you like the Tidal ATMOS, then go ahead with Apple tv 4k.
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Superb analysis. And spot on.i tried playing a hi-Res lossless track in the following four ways. Note that CXN was used as a pure streamer and the DAC was Schiit Bifrost in all cases to maintain uniformity:
A. From iPad via AirPlay2 to CXN
B. From MacBook via AirPlay2 from Music app to CXN
C. From MacBook via AirPlay2 system-wide (from menubar on top of screen) to CXN
D. From MacBook via USB directly to Schiit DAC.
The hi-Res (24-bit/48kHz ALAC) track I played:
View attachment 59830
Here are the findings:
A. From iPad via AirPlay2 to CXN; as well as
B. From MacBook via AirPlay2 from Music app to CXN
View attachment 59833
Now this is the confusing one because it says 44.1kHz/16 bit as well as AAC. Some of us think that AAC is necessarily lossy. But is it? Let’s look at that later. But the SQ (as well as the display on CXN) in these two cases was identical.
C. From MacBook via AirPlay2 system-wide (from menubar on top of screen) to CXN
View attachment 59835
As you can see, it says ALAC now. So clearly the AAC is enforced by the Apple Music app and not a limitation of AirPlay2. AirPlay2 is quite capable of transferring Lossless. That gives us the confidence that Apple only needs to make some software changes to its Apple Music app and/or iOS to be able to get ALAC transfers from iOS devices to our streamers and AVRs. Hopefully that’d happen soon.
But how was the SQ in this case? Perceivably better than in cases A and B (though I won’t say a day-night difference). So clearly it’s preferable. If you are on MacBook, there’s no reason to go with B and not C. Remember that even in C, AirPlay2 caps the transmission to 44.1kHz/16bit (hopefully that’d change with AirPlay3). But it should still be able to do full justice to CD quality lossless albums on Apple Music (which is what all Indian and most older international content is anyway in).
D. From MacBook via USB directly to Schiit DAC.
Now, my Schiit DAC doesn’t display the resolution so I can only guess. (Also no pic for the same reason). But given that it has the capability, there’s no reason to not believe that it was playing the hi-Res file as it is - that is, in its 24bit/48kHz glory. And the ears could easily tell that. The bump in SQ was quite obvious. After hearing it, it’s difficult NOT to play hi-Res via USB and go with AirPlay instead. I couldn’t locate a hi-Res file with further higher resolution than this one, but I imagine the improvement would only be more accentuated in that case.
Now, let’s get back to the confusion mentioned earlier. Does AAC necessarily mean lossy? I don’t know. But if you look at Wikipedia’s table comparing different codecs below, it shows that AAC can use MPEG-4 SLS lossless audio compression (something that mp3 doesn’t).
Comparison of audio coding formats - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Now what is this MPEG-4 SLS? Probably more technically equipped members can read the following and explain it well, but SLS stands for ‘scalable to lossless’
MPEG-4 SLS - Wikipedia
As the article mentions, it’s an extension that allows having both a lossy layer and lossless correction layer. It can also work without a lossy layer. I quote - “On top of the core AAC codec, a scalable extension layer increases the signal-to-noise ratio, reaching lossless quality at data rates comparable to those of pure lossless audio codecs, that is at average compression ratios of about 58%”.
Now, I cannot be sure, but probably this means that even AAC could potentially SQ approaching pure lossless. Definitely better than 320 kbps mp3. Question is, whether the AAC transferred by AirPlay uses both the lossy and lossless layer? If it does, probably CXN (and other receivers) take the lossless layer?
PS. I realised I could connect the MacBook directly to the CXN as well with USB. So i did that too as case E. it’s essentially a small variation of case D, just adding the CXN unnecessarily into the chain while the DAC in use still remained Schitt. This is what the display showed. I am assuming it was playing hi-Res version and the SQ was close to that of case D (with whatever deterioration due to the elongated path by addition of CXN streamer).
View attachment 59838
D
Deleted member 15865
Guest
So, after two days of exploration things are quite clear on what’s possible and what’s not currently on Apple Music. And therefore, it’s decision time. Here’s mine.
I was never interested in the spatial music. It’s possible (though I don’t think probable) that in the future more new music gets recorded for spatial playback. But for now, I see any conversion of existing music into spatial as a distortion.
It’s quite clear that as of now it’s not possible to listen to Apple Lossless on your home stereo system using a mobile device. And that’s my (only) preferred way of streaming. I could never get myself to play music through laptop onto the system in the living room. Computer music I only associate with headphones.
So, till Apple can tweak their app to transfer ALAC over AirPlay and/or they enable native play on streamers like Tidal or Spotify Connect, I don’t see much point in subscribing to Apple Music. But I shall keep following developments on the above, if any. And then there’s always the possibility that Tidal/Qobuz launches in India or Spotify goes lossless as per their plans. But if I have to enjoy lossless - both the music and experience should be lossless. I don’t want to ‘lose’ on the convenience of not having to get up from my sofa or fiddle with a computer.
I was never interested in the spatial music. It’s possible (though I don’t think probable) that in the future more new music gets recorded for spatial playback. But for now, I see any conversion of existing music into spatial as a distortion.
It’s quite clear that as of now it’s not possible to listen to Apple Lossless on your home stereo system using a mobile device. And that’s my (only) preferred way of streaming. I could never get myself to play music through laptop onto the system in the living room. Computer music I only associate with headphones.
So, till Apple can tweak their app to transfer ALAC over AirPlay and/or they enable native play on streamers like Tidal or Spotify Connect, I don’t see much point in subscribing to Apple Music. But I shall keep following developments on the above, if any. And then there’s always the possibility that Tidal/Qobuz launches in India or Spotify goes lossless as per their plans. But if I have to enjoy lossless - both the music and experience should be lossless. I don’t want to ‘lose’ on the convenience of not having to get up from my sofa or fiddle with a computer.
Thanks. Was worth writing it if someone read.
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Don't you think that a mobile connected to a USB Dac via the mobiles USB port to a stereo system will play lossless or are you only talking of streaming lossless via AirPlay/ chromecast ?
I have tried this via the Zen Dac and I would assume that it will play lossless but no way to confirm. Not a convenient way to play music through which is why I explored the option of installing Apple Music software on my TV and playing it via HDMI to the receiver.
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D
Deleted member 15865
Guest
Sunil, that would still mean being tethered via a cable. You either need a long cable which comes in the way of your work with the mobile device or have to keep a dedicated mobile device for music play and keep getting up to change albums/playlists or to explore. My idea of streaming is to sit with a mobile in my hand on the sofa and cast or control natively played music on the streamer while I continue to do a number of other activities on the mobile/tablet, including some related to the musical engagement - like searching details on a new artist I chance upon in the streamed music. It’s either this extreme convenience on one hand, or on the other hand the extreme engagement with my gear while playing physical media for a completely focused listening session. Anything in between feels like an undesirable compromise. Unless one is primarily into desktop audio.
That’s an alternative if it works. My TV is an old plasma, with Apple TV adding smartness to it. Unfortunately the Apple TV HD doesn’t have a separate digital audio out. Unless there’s a way to split the HDMI out and connect to both the television and the streamer (with a HDMI->USB converter), I have to depend on AirPlay from the Apple TV to the streamer. And only if it doesn’t affect the sound quality. But instead of putting all that effort and cost, I’d rather wait for Apple to correct their Music app to use the AirPlay to cast ALAC which AirPlay is capable of (at least till FLAC resolution).
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Not sure whats going on with Airplay. As per the comments here, the transmission is lossy. However, in my case its transmitting 24/44 content. The giveaway for this is because of the dac I use (vintage 20 bit dac, doesnt play 24 bit). With lossless the dac doesnt play (presumably because of 24 bit content). If I switch back to lossy in settings, it starts to work with the dac. Seems that there is a 24 bit signal coming through on the lossless setting. Yet to try in my main setup so no comment on comparison with Tidal / Qobuz
rahuln
Active Member
On my Yamaha integrated amplifier (R-N803) I'm getting lossless at 44.1 with AirPlay even when I airplay it through the Music app.
There are HDMI splitters which will extract the audio as SPDIF.
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Alternatively, doesn't your TV have an SPDIF out ? You can use that.
Noticed that , even though using CCA connected to digital in of CXN and its display showing PCM/ 44.1 KHz, the lossless label on apple music goes away on chromecasting. This would indicate that mayb apple music app is casting in lossy format AAC and CXN is displaying wrong info. Or 44.1KHz is achieved by lossy AAC by having low bits per sample.
So seems like chromecasting also do not achieve CD quality due to lack of ALAC support
Another interesting experiment with Android phone is Cast my Phone option within Chromecast Audio setup in Google Home App. From there i can cast my android phone sound output to CXN directly. It plays all phone sounds including Apple music output, but the display do not show any info about cast quality.
If any android app which can cast phone sound and transcode ALAC to WAV ( like Bubble upnp), then mayb lossless CD quality can be achieved thru Chromecast with Apple Music
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