Authoritative SS Power Amplifier

[Nikhil]

Comparing some emotiva to a DNA-500 is like comparing chalk with cheese. The only thing common between the two is the rated output power.

You're right but its hard to get hold of a DNA 500. I missed out on a gem on Audiogon last month. The Emotivas on the other hand are ready to ship the day I send them my payment.

You're right about the output power. Like I said I am looking for a sure footed amp that will handle any kind of speaker load with ease. However I did read somewhere that if the Emotivas were made in a garage in California they would be calling it the best thing since sliced bread. LOL!

 

[Nikhil]

After reading up on Asit's "epic" thread I have been rethinking my options. I had started this thread with the intention of getting to know more about an amp that would be sort of an end game solution at a particular price point.

Some of my assumptions were that a good powerful SS amp would take care of business. After seeing some feedback I can see that this is not always the case. I've also read that the added muscle comes at some cost in musicality. Does that mean only the high end SS amps have what it takes? That would absolutely suck. The ever increasing dollar and import costs just make this scenario worse.

Emotiva has taken the route of getting their amps made in China to address the cost issue. They pretty much acknowledge up front that their amps would cost thousands of dollars more just a few years ago. I admire their courage in taking that route. But the question on quality now dogs them a little. Maybe unfairly. I guess I will just have to be patient with auditioning and find out for myself.

 

[captrajesh]

Nikhil, hifi (as are other things in life) is full of compromises. Compromises based on one's priorities, one's preferences and importantly, one's budget.

When electronic amplification of sound started off, watts were expensive. Hence, the drivers were 'high compliance drivers' and the speakers were high sensitive ones. The amplification was done with tubes. Though they had issues like higher distortion levels and lower damping factor, roll off at lower and higher frequencies etc., since major part of music resides in mid range and these produced them beautifully, connoisseurs of good music of that era were a happy lot.

Later when transistors made their appearance, they were happily embraced by the designers as they addressed the (then perceived) 'customer pain points' like reduction in bulk, lesser power consumption and reduced heat and it's dissipation issues.Their cost kept getting reduced while the power they produced kept getting increased.

Because of the relatively cheaper watts, inherent disadvantages of the high compliance drivers came into focus and there came low compliance drivers; tweeters, mid range drivers and woofers, which in unison stretched the audible frequency range to match that of our hearing limits with lesser distortion levels et al.

But the small bunch of audio connoisseurs wouldn't agree and wouldn't budge. They scoffed at the new gen systems to the utter dismay of the new gen designers and engineers. It is their tenacity and perseverence against all odds that world took notice and rediscovered the virtues of tube amplifiers and high compliance drivers like Altec, Tannoy Monitor drivers etc.

Now talking of compromises, no system can do all things. If one wants a system that does everything, one must live with "jack of all trades" which does everything reasonably well. Tube pre and SS power with mid or even low sensitivity speakers comes to my mind instantly. One thing to keep in mind though is the compatibility of the pre and power amps.

If you want a system that suits a particular genre, then you have to make right choices and select your system accordingly. If your music predominantly comprises vocals and percussion, string and wind instruments like in Jazz, Carnatic or Hindustani, then you must look at tube amplification with high sensitivity drivers or speakers comprising of ESL panels. The ball is in your court.

 

[Nikhil]

Captrajesh, thanks for the advice. You really have summed up the choices very well.

Growing up in the 70s and 80s has slightly slanted my music tastes to a diverse mix. I have a collection of classic rock, pop and yes, even some disco! Recently I have been looking up some instrumental and vocal music thanks to some audiophile reading. I do listen to a little western classical but not all that much. Of recent acts like John Mayer, Dire Straits, Journey and Queen gets a lot of time in my listening. Have never heard any of these bands on a tube amp so not sure how tubes are going to handle my style of music. I really would like to know what would be a great amp for classic rock!

My present setup handles this music quite well - the PSBs are a great sounding speaker. I wonder why more people don't listen to Onkyo Stereo amps more. Clear highs and very sure mid range. Bass is adequate but I would like to augment the setup with a good sub. I did a recent audition of a NAD/Marantz with Mission Audio/Quad speakers (with DefTech sub) and well .. they really didn't sound that great to me. I would really like to know what others are hearing that I keep reading about. I'm hoping to get to audition more systems to put some more experience to my ears.

 

[aadharraj]

hi nikhil,

sounds like u r eager to boost up t5 to peak. 8050 is good but not enough. i have a 8255. got t6 with marantz pm7004.

i would say, dont look for power amp inspite of what shops and sellers recommend. power amps give u power but eat up your clarity.

use a 2 zone amp for separate connections to lows and highs. keep another amp for taking over the lows - preferably same brand and similar output configuration. use pre-out to add this booster amp.

u get the best of both worlds. use only one amp to get perfect musicality. use both amp with zone 2 off on primary amp and booster amp on to add puches to the lows. works out really great!

 

[Nikhil]

aadharraj,

Thanks for the feedback. My TX 8050 is for my regular listening of digital sources like USB, audio streamed over wifi, AppleTV etc. In the long run though I am looking for an amp that will be a part of my main "reference" system. This thread is about looking around for this system. I have to decide if I go for either an Integrated or Pre - Power. My problem right now is I can't hear enough of a difference from what I have and what have auditioned so far. I am starting to suspect that I probably have "woolly ears" that have been shot thanks to excessively loud listening on my walkman in my younger days.

About my TX 8050: Bi amping as you've suggested looks like something I could try. Right now however I'm looking for a good sub-woofer to augment the bass. I have another thread going on where I had selected the Rythmik Audio F12 but the freight costs have put that on hold. :sad:

 

[Nikhil]

I would like to thank all the good folks on here for all the help extended. Have heard some great advice and tips which have helped me learn more about stereo. I have finally settled on FM square_wave's fantastic Acoustic Portrait PM-1 Pre and CPA-3 Power Amplifier combo. My search took me into some interesting auditions which were learning experiences by themselves but I will not bore you with details.

I met Vinny (square_wave) last weekend after a lot of jugglery with dates and times. I was visiting Bangalore on a weekend trip and I had PM'ed Vinny that I was interested in his AP combo. We somehow managed to get about an hour with him on Saturday morning and we showed up a little bleary eyed at his place after a long Friday night. And what an experience it was!

Vinny is as unassuming as it gets but the guy is deep when it comes to audio. He has been through the cycle (Pioneer > NAD > Odyssey > AP or something like that over the past 10 years or so) and is a wordsmith when it comes to describing audio. Just hearing him describe audio and you start wondering how he finds words to describe stuff like this which is so hard to do. Our audition with him was a front seat tour into the world of sound which we thoroughly enjoyed. The AP combo sang us some great tunes - mostly jazz but we also threw in some Indian instrumental music and some Clapton. Interestingly my wife and I didn't make a conscious decision to buy but we both knew the AP were the real deal. We were a little unsure how much of the sound was as a result of the AP combo or his amazing Blumenhofer speakers.

From what I heard Vinny's Acoustic Portrait combo was as good as some serious high end audio we've heard. I don't know if its worth putting a list of the gear we've auditioned but I only would put this out there to show what a serious piece of kit the AP's are. People out there please give Shiva some consideration whenever you are looking around for your next purchase. We are just extremely happy to get a Pre - Power combo of this quality right here from an Indian company. I have to thank Vinny for this.

Cheers!

 

[mpw]

Congratulations nikhil.. Time to enjoy the music.

Mpw

 

[anm]

congrats Nikhil. how are they sounding with your PSB? or are you planning to change the speakers too?

 

[denom]

Waiting for a detailed review from you Nikhil

Will be interesting to see what square wave gets in place of the AP Gear he has sold to you

 

[mbhangui]

Congrats. The AP are one of the best amps I have heard till now. Let us have a detailed review from you.

 

[Nikhil]

congrats Nikhil. how are they sounding with your PSB? or are you planning to change the speakers too?

Initially I will be using them with my PSBs but truth be told these amplifiers deserve more. Square_wave told me that Shiva designs his gear with Scan-Speak drivers in mind so I might go that route. But that's going to be next year's project.

 

[Nikhil]

Waiting for a detailed review from you Nikhil

Will be interesting to see what square wave gets in place of the AP Gear he has sold to you

Thanks Dave! Square_wave is looking for an amp that will match his amazing Blumenhofers. Probably something like a 50 watt tube amp. His speakers are just ridiculously sensitive. Our audition was done at just a few clicks over 2-3 level on the volume knob!

 

[Nikhil]

Congrats. The AP are one of the best amps I have heard till now. Let us have a detailed review from you.

Thanks mbhangul. It was truly a pleasure to hear these APs. The amp combo is still with square_wave right now so will not be listening to these until I get them here in Hyderabad. I have a bit of travel coming up so I don't see anything happening until next month.

But this is a little different setup for me and I am going to take my time. I've ordered a power conditioner along with new power & speaker cables at the moment. The next step would be the AP DAC to get my digital media into the chain. It's definitely going to be interesting how my PSB T5s are going to sound with this kind of power. Chances are that I will be upgrading some time in the future.

 

[square_wave]

Thanks Nikhil for the kind words ! It was a pleasure having you and your music lover wife over.

I am glad that the AP combination has found a good home. I have always been lucky to have genuine music lovers picking up gear from me whenever I had something up for sale. None of the folks who have picked up anything from me has sold them off. My two previous speakers and the odyssey amp are still singing in their new found homes and the buyers have become good friends.

 

[Dr.Bass]

I would like to thank all the good folks on here for all the help extended. Have heard some great advice and tips which have helped me learn more about stereo. I have finally settled on FM square_wave's fantastic Acoustic Portrait PM-1 Pre and CPA-3 Power Amplifier combo. My search took me into some interesting auditions which were learning experiences by themselves but I will not bore you with details.

I met Vinny (square_wave) last weekend after a lot of jugglery with dates and times. I was visiting Bangalore on a weekend trip and I had PM'ed Vinny that I was interested in his AP combo. We somehow managed to get about an hour with him on Saturday morning and we showed up a little bleary eyed at his place after a long Friday night. And what an experience it was!

Vinny is as unassuming as it gets but the guy is deep when it comes to audio. He has been through the cycle (Pioneer > NAD > Odyssey > AP or something like that over the past 10 years or so) and is a wordsmith when it comes to describing audio. Just hearing him describe audio and you start wondering how he finds words to describe stuff like this which is so hard to do. Our audition with him was a front seat tour into the world of sound which we thoroughly enjoyed. The AP combo sang us some great tunes - mostly jazz but we also threw in some Indian instrumental music and some Clapton. Interestingly my wife and I didn't make a conscious decision to buy but we both knew the AP were the real deal. We were a little unsure how much of the sound was as a result of the AP combo or his amazing Blumenhofer speakers.

From what I heard Vinny's Acoustic Portrait combo was as good as some serious high end audio we've heard. I don't know if its worth putting a list of the gear we've auditioned but I only would put this out there to show what a serious piece of kit the AP's are. People out there please give Shiva some consideration whenever you are looking around for your next purchase. We are just extremely happy to get a Pre - Power combo of this quality right here from an Indian company. I have to thank Vinny for this.

Cheers!

Superb buy Nikhil. You were lucky to be at the right place at the right time. You will have great times ahead, believe me

 

[Nikhil]

Thanks Nikhil for the kind words ! It was a pleasure having you and your music lover wife over.

I am glad that the AP combination has found a good home. I have always been lucky to have genuine music lovers picking up gear from me whenever I had something up for sale. None of the folks who have picked up anything from me has sold them off. My two previous speakers and the odyssey amp are still singing in their new found homes and the buyers have become good friends.

Thanks buddy! That's really nice to know. Your combo is just right for us in so many different fronts. I really hope that it comes together nicely at our place. One concern that I have is the relatively low amount of information available on the amp. Will be leaning on you guys quite a bit till things settle down.

 

[Nikhil]

Superb buy Nikhil. You were lucky to be at the right place at the right time. You will have great times ahead, believe me

Thanks Dr Bass. For now I have to wait till I can find a safe way to get the amps to Hyderabad (probably by car). Have got some cables on order from Mr Murthy for this system. Need to get some wiring sorted out as well so its a bit of a work in progress right now.

 

[heliumflight]

I have been looking over some candidates for a Solid State power amp with plenty of headroom to get the best out of most speakers. My current speakers are the PSB Image T5s however I would like to have an amp that's got me covered in the future. I don't want to go over the top so about $2,000 would be my budget. I have looked long and hard at some used McCormack listings - a DNA-500 with any of the SmC mods would be my dream amp probably. Would consider revising my budget if I get one of these. If anyone on here has one please let me know - would like to hear what this beast is all about.

The Emotiva XPA-2 is a definite candidate. Have already got a quote from Emotiva but would like to hear one before of making a blind purchase. They seem to be a great VFM purchase at the $750 price level.

Its between these two at this point in time. If anyone has been on this road before please let me know. All comments and feedback are welcome!

Note: I have heard NADs and they are not in contention right now.

I've been a Bryston owner and it is synonymous for Authority.

helium
CA 640c V2 / SB Classic + Sansui AU-317 + Wharfedale Denton 80th Anniversary LE / Vintage B&W DM4 + Pure Silver cables= Music

 

[malvai]

Nikhil, that is a very amazing pre-power combo at even a 3x price point. I have heard the AP stuff at Shiva's residence and I really like his approach. You have got a darned good deal from Vinny esp since he has even modded the amps to an altogether different level.

you can sit bak and relax for many many years to come. I doubt you will out grow them anytime soon. you will do well to upgrade you speakers later. i guess you already know that!

congrats!