Basic question about concealed wiring

[ontherocks]

Can any changes be made to an existing concealed wiring without breaking walls or something, like replacing one wire with another or adding a new wire?

 

[psolaiappan]

There is no need to break the wall to replace/change wire.
Adding new wire is also possible provided there is space available in the pvc pipe.
Steel wire/Spring is used to route the new wire. You should know PVC pipe route and there may be some junction points you may have to unscrew to open.

 

[ranjeetrain]

Get a professional to do it. They know their stuff. I have done it in past without problem.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Planning for the future with concealed wiring...

1. Make sure your conduits are big enough to take more cables.

2. Include some strong nylon or polyester thread tied off at both ends. You can use this to pull the new wire through, without having to push the spring wire.

Pushing the spring wire is the professional technique --- but, once there are more than a couple of bends on the route, it is not nearly as easy as they make it look. From sheer practice, they have the knack.

 

[ontherocks]

There is no need to break the wall to replace/change wire.
Adding new wire is also possible provided there is space available in the pvc pipe.
Steel wire/Spring is used to route the new wire. You should know PVC pipe route and there may be some junction points you may have to unscrew to open.

Get a professional to do it. They know their stuff. I have done it in past without problem.

That's excellent news.
I have seen the PVC pipes in a couple of junctions, and it seems there is enough room for another wire. I want to replace the telephone cable with an ethernet cable.
So if I hire a professional, do I still need to know the PVC pipe route? Which seems difficult since it's a PITA to get in touch with the builder and then through him to the person who installed the pipes and then to his memory. Do builders have or keep a wiring diagram?

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Glitch led to double post

 

[ontherocks]

Planning for the future with concealed wiring...

1. Make sure your conduits are big enough to take more cables.

Hmm. Unfortunately damage has been already done.

2. Include some strong nylon or polyester thread tied off at both ends. You can use this to pull the new wire through, without having to push the spring wire.

I will make sure this point is taken care of this time.

Pushing the spring wire is the professional technique --- but, once there are more than a couple of bends on the route, it is not nearly as easy as they make it look. From sheer practice, they have the knack.

Wonder how do they make the spring turn at corners. Is this the same spring that's used in hanging curtains?

 

[ranjeetrain]

Practice!

Since this is their day job, they are also good at guessing the layout. Call it experience or luck. They should be able to help you. Just make sure you tell them you will only pay after successful installation of new wires :lol:

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Exactly!

Wonder how do they make the spring turn at corners. Is this the same spring that's used in hanging curtains?

Yes it is. I have a tin of it. Elephant Brand. I think I bought it for hanging curtains!

Flexibility allows the spring to turn corners; you just push. Each corner adds friction, though, and it quickly becomes difficult. I installed a new tube light, six feet above the switch box, but even though it was so close, it was still not a straight run and it took me ages of pushing and pulling and twisting and twitching. A pro would probably have done it in a minute.

I've also pushed about ten metres of spring into a conduit to try to find where it went. I didn't find the other end anywhere! Yes, it would be nice if builders made diagrams.

 

[psolaiappan]

You may have to apply some lubricant(oil) to the wire for smooth pulling inside conduit.
Attach small hook (the same one used for window spring for curtain) so that the spring does not get struck in the bend.

 

[ontherocks]

Just make sure you tell them you will only pay after successful installation of new wires :lol:

Any idea about their labor charges?

 

[ontherocks]

I've also pushed about ten metres of spring into a conduit to try to find where it went. I didn't find the other end anywhere!

That would have been fun ...he..he :lol:

Yes, it would be nice if builders made diagrams.

It would have also given me an idea about the length of wires to purchase.

 

[anuragn]

Can any changes be made to an existing concealed wiring without breaking walls or something, like replacing one wire with another or adding a new wire?

Replacing an old wire with new one is easier than inserting just a new wire.
Just tie the new cable to one end of the old telephone wire and then pull out the old wire from the other end. Thus, the old wire will come out completely and new one will be inside.
You can try it yourself if the length is short, else hire a pro. They usually charge Rs 200-300 per "point".

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

You may have to apply some lubricant(oil) to the wire for smooth pulling inside conduit.
Attach small hook (the same one used for window spring for curtain) so that the spring does not get struck in the bend.

Instead of a hook use an eye. You may have to pull the wire back out: a hook might make this impossible. If there are many wires there already, even an eye might make it harder rather than easier

 

[ontherocks]

Replacing an old wire with new one is easier than inserting just a new wire.
Just tie the new cable to one end of the old telephone wire and then pull out the old wire from the other end. Thus, the old wire will come out completely and new one will be inside.

Thought about that. The problem is.....it's a telephone cable which is very weak by nature. I cannot use it to pull a ethernet cable inside a pipe already filled with some electrical wires. The telephone cable is guaranteed to break in this process.

 

[just4kix]

Add wires to concealed wire pipes in the walls is not always possible. There may be angles at various places.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

it's a telephone cable which is very weak by nature. I cannot use it to pull a ethernet cable inside a pipe already filled with some electrical wires. The telephone cable is guaranteed to break in this process.

When a ship tows another ship, a very thick cable is used. This could not possibly be thrown anywhere, let alone from one ship to another. How is the cable passed? By throwing a line that is small enough to throw, but strong enough to then use to pull the heavy line aboard.

 

[quad]

Thought about that. The problem is.....it's a telephone cable which is very weak by nature. I cannot use it to pull a ethernet cable inside a pipe already filled with some electrical wires. The telephone cable is guaranteed to break in this process.

It is not a good idea to share the same conduit for power and network/phone.
In this day and age of wireless, do you need to run ethernet cable?

 

[ontherocks]

It is not a good idea to share the same conduit for power and network/phone.

That's a very valid point. I think I will drop the idea.
The current phone line runs through a separate PVC pipe exclusively allocated for it. I thought of getting a ethernet outlet at a point where the telephone pipe doesn't exist. So the only way would have been to run it along the power cables. But because of interference it would be a bad idea.

In this day and age of wireless, do you need to run ethernet cable?

Because of obvious range & bandwidth issues.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

But because of interference it would be a bad idea.

It is not something that a pro network engineer would do when cabling a building. It is certainly against "the rules." On the other hand, cat-(5 or greater) ethernet cable is designed to reject interference and it does do, pretty well. So, you could try it. There is every chance that it might work just fine. It does need to be terminated properly (do not untwist until you get to the actual connector itself: a real engineer taught me that ) to maintain its resilience.

There is most horrible jumble of mains cables, signal cables and network cables behind my desk but it is working fine.

So, the gamble would be the cost of the cable and installation, which is not going to be that much. Live dangerously: try it! And let us know if it works