Birth of New Speakers Serenata Audio Violoncello
- Thread starter denom
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Rapid fire time!
The custom DHT Pre & 2A3 Power Amps as commissioned by serenata audio to be used as part of their demo equipment arrived & was summoned to another listening session with the above amps & the violoncellos.
Pics of the unpacked amps minus the tubes:
'custom' power cords & pre power IC's provided by lyrita audio, pics of the same as below:
We tried a mix of music played from the earlier sessions, to get an idea of how much of a difference there could be between the presentation of a stock lyrita audio 2A3 Integrated(A) & that of the custom DHT pre & 2A3 power amps(B). To say that the difference was 'audible' would be an understatement. If amp (A) showed the capability of the violoncellos to a certain extent, amp(B) made the violoncellos take a quantum leap forward with their pairing. 50% improvement overall is what I felt.
Where the improvements were found?
1) Soundstage:
B has much wider sound stage than A
2) Mids Spotlight:
B spotlights on mids like crazy! Lovers of Mids will fall down with ecstasy
3) Open Sound:
B kills A in openness of sound presentation, period!
4) Darker background & Lower Noise floor
Enabled B to provide more background details, better instrument separation & macro detailing improvement.
5) Smoother Sound Delivery
B felt more refined over A. Makes for B to be more enjoyable over longer periods of time.
Over the above 1 more important aspect I found was that B had more headroom & better composure as it never felt stressed as compared to A.
Am sure all the above aspects are due to the hand picked components & design implementations that have made all the difference, no 2 questions about it. Pat on the back of lyrita & serenata audio for accomplishing a well thought out & implemented piece of audio equipment.
A fly in the ointment if I have to nit pick is that the fit & finish of the amps could be further improved upon, hope to see improvements in this aspect & that my criticism is taken positively!
In a nutshell Amp B needs to be heard to realise above facets vis a vis amp A. Makes one wonder why was 1 listening to amp A all this while when B just kills it in every aspect save 1 which is the obvious & that is COST!
A special mention on the packing courtesy of lyrita audio, which deserves double :thumbsup: as everything was well planned & a delight to unpack to find no harm to the contents, which was most critical & heartening, as am sure the cases must have been manhandled by the clowns called couriers.
The custom DHT Pre & 2A3 Power Amps as commissioned by serenata audio to be used as part of their demo equipment arrived & was summoned to another listening session with the above amps & the violoncellos.
Pics of the unpacked amps minus the tubes:
'custom' power cords & pre power IC's provided by lyrita audio, pics of the same as below:
We tried a mix of music played from the earlier sessions, to get an idea of how much of a difference there could be between the presentation of a stock lyrita audio 2A3 Integrated(A) & that of the custom DHT pre & 2A3 power amps(B). To say that the difference was 'audible' would be an understatement. If amp (A) showed the capability of the violoncellos to a certain extent, amp(B) made the violoncellos take a quantum leap forward with their pairing. 50% improvement overall is what I felt.
Where the improvements were found?
1) Soundstage:
B has much wider sound stage than A
2) Mids Spotlight:
B spotlights on mids like crazy! Lovers of Mids will fall down with ecstasy
3) Open Sound:
B kills A in openness of sound presentation, period!
4) Darker background & Lower Noise floor
Enabled B to provide more background details, better instrument separation & macro detailing improvement.
5) Smoother Sound Delivery
B felt more refined over A. Makes for B to be more enjoyable over longer periods of time.
Over the above 1 more important aspect I found was that B had more headroom & better composure as it never felt stressed as compared to A.
Am sure all the above aspects are due to the hand picked components & design implementations that have made all the difference, no 2 questions about it. Pat on the back of lyrita & serenata audio for accomplishing a well thought out & implemented piece of audio equipment.
A fly in the ointment if I have to nit pick is that the fit & finish of the amps could be further improved upon, hope to see improvements in this aspect & that my criticism is taken positively!
In a nutshell Amp B needs to be heard to realise above facets vis a vis amp A. Makes one wonder why was 1 listening to amp A all this while when B just kills it in every aspect save 1 which is the obvious & that is COST!
A special mention on the packing courtesy of lyrita audio, which deserves double :thumbsup: as everything was well planned & a delight to unpack to find no harm to the contents, which was most critical & heartening, as am sure the cases must have been manhandled by the clowns called couriers.
SerenataAudio
New Member
The Lyrita Audio DHT preamp and the 2A3 power amplifier is designed on a purist audio philosophy.
A superb example of refined audio electronics; thoughtful and well researched implementation by Mr. Viren Bakshi.
Personally, I have a great affinity towards simple and purist designs and am to an extent obsessed with audio systems having the least amount of electronic components in the signal path.
The DHT preamplifier uses a pair of the Russian 4P1L tubes operating as directly heated triodes in pure class A mode. It was Mr. Bakshi's idea to eliminate the potentiometer from the signal path and use it in a passive configuration for volume control. The input tubes of the pre amp are coupled to the driver stage of the power amp through interstage transformers.
A pair of Russian 6E5P tetrode tubes perform the driver stage duties which are further transformer coupled to the 2A3 DHT output tubes. High quality output transformers interface between the output tubes and the speakers.
The result... An amplifier capable of delivering the most subtle micro details in a recording rendered on a low noise floor dark background.
The 2A3 tubes are unparalleled when it comes to a direct and open presentation. The mid range is to die for; though not as refined as a 300B. However, the 2A3 has a better response across the frequency spectrum as opposed to the 300B which has a spotlight on the midrange.
The next addition to the Serenata Audio listening room would be a Lyrita Audio custom designed tube phono stage.
A superb example of refined audio electronics; thoughtful and well researched implementation by Mr. Viren Bakshi.
Personally, I have a great affinity towards simple and purist designs and am to an extent obsessed with audio systems having the least amount of electronic components in the signal path.
The DHT preamplifier uses a pair of the Russian 4P1L tubes operating as directly heated triodes in pure class A mode. It was Mr. Bakshi's idea to eliminate the potentiometer from the signal path and use it in a passive configuration for volume control. The input tubes of the pre amp are coupled to the driver stage of the power amp through interstage transformers.
A pair of Russian 6E5P tetrode tubes perform the driver stage duties which are further transformer coupled to the 2A3 DHT output tubes. High quality output transformers interface between the output tubes and the speakers.
The result... An amplifier capable of delivering the most subtle micro details in a recording rendered on a low noise floor dark background.
The 2A3 tubes are unparalleled when it comes to a direct and open presentation. The mid range is to die for; though not as refined as a 300B. However, the 2A3 has a better response across the frequency spectrum as opposed to the 300B which has a spotlight on the midrange.
The next addition to the Serenata Audio listening room would be a Lyrita Audio custom designed tube phono stage.
Last edited:
viren bakhshi
Well-Known Member
Good to hear that you're enjoying music through your system. It needs to be said again - the system building approach is what yields results. Music doesn't flow only through a solitary component, but through the whole chain. And, tube amplifiers and high sensitivity speakers, horn designs among them, seem to work magnificently together.
Simplicity in design always rewards - the music is less processed, more direct, more involving. And, that is what the whole exercise is about - to help you enjoy music in your home!
Viren
Simplicity in design always rewards - the music is less processed, more direct, more involving. And, that is what the whole exercise is about - to help you enjoy music in your home!
Viren
@Denom, I was going to ask you the question whether the equipment was pre-owned, till I saw this comment. There appears to be small gouges in the rear edges etc.
Cheers,
Sid
@Denom/ Serenita Audio, could you elaborate on the 'custom' part on how these amps are different from the stock Lyrita amps?
SerenataAudio
New Member
Primarily the customization focussed on removing capacitors from the signal path and coupling all gain stages through interstage transformers. We have gone back in time.....
We were discussing using an autoformer for volume control.. But Lyrita Audio came up with an excellent alternative. Coupling a highly refined potentiometer with the IS transformer in a passive configuration.
We have taken this purist madness a step further. Let's wait for the tube phono preamp to arrive.
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Long time since I updated the thread. I have been listening to the Violoncello's intermittently but have not been updating the thread.
At about 95 hours of speakers break-in - I heard the speakers & had felt that the break-in hours were further smoothening out the slight rough edges in the overall sound presentation.
The positive attributes of the over all sound was being maintained, just that it was getting more refined post further break-in.
The DHT Pre & 2A3 Power amps were also settling in along with the IC's & maybe they also were contributing to the sound getting further refined.
Just wanted to mention this before posting about yesterdays listening session, which has been shared in this thread:
http://www.hifivision.com/av-lounge/48814-evening-viren-part-2-a.html
Coming to yesterdays listening session with speaker break-in at about 125 hours. A couple of things to note:
New ICs introduced in the chain. They are the same used across the pre/power & the CDP.
Due to some issues with the Project TT, we could not hear any LPs, so it was CDs only.
There was a wide variety of music heard covering almost all aspects of music genres including Indian Classical & Bollywood.
My observations of the session:
The music sounded more controlled & refined, with a slight loss of dynamics than before.
The sound was more focused especially with vocals. A little laid back as well. The Highs were a bit softened, Mids dead focused & shining, with controlled Lows that played true to the limits of the speaker design.
This could be due to the new ICs being introduced in the chain. I hope to do another listening session in the near future with the earlier ICs in place just to get a sense of whether it has anything to do with the change of ICs.
The New IC's are essentially magnet wires which are very thin, AWG26 I think, with Neutrik Connectors. Very thin & delicate & could not capture it on my poor entry level camera
To be honest, I was a fan of the earlier than latter. But then its my view & that of others may be different.
Look forward to Serenata Audio to share more information on the new IC's & their characteristics.
At about 95 hours of speakers break-in - I heard the speakers & had felt that the break-in hours were further smoothening out the slight rough edges in the overall sound presentation.
The positive attributes of the over all sound was being maintained, just that it was getting more refined post further break-in.
The DHT Pre & 2A3 Power amps were also settling in along with the IC's & maybe they also were contributing to the sound getting further refined.
Just wanted to mention this before posting about yesterdays listening session, which has been shared in this thread:
http://www.hifivision.com/av-lounge/48814-evening-viren-part-2-a.html
Coming to yesterdays listening session with speaker break-in at about 125 hours. A couple of things to note:
New ICs introduced in the chain. They are the same used across the pre/power & the CDP.
Due to some issues with the Project TT, we could not hear any LPs, so it was CDs only.
There was a wide variety of music heard covering almost all aspects of music genres including Indian Classical & Bollywood.
My observations of the session:
The music sounded more controlled & refined, with a slight loss of dynamics than before.
The sound was more focused especially with vocals. A little laid back as well. The Highs were a bit softened, Mids dead focused & shining, with controlled Lows that played true to the limits of the speaker design.
This could be due to the new ICs being introduced in the chain. I hope to do another listening session in the near future with the earlier ICs in place just to get a sense of whether it has anything to do with the change of ICs.
The New IC's are essentially magnet wires which are very thin, AWG26 I think, with Neutrik Connectors. Very thin & delicate & could not capture it on my poor entry level camera
To be honest, I was a fan of the earlier than latter. But then its my view & that of others may be different.
Look forward to Serenata Audio to share more information on the new IC's & their characteristics.
Last edited by a moderator:
SerenataAudio
New Member
Denom, I am in agreement with your observation.
The ICs that were being used earlier had thicker guage of conductor (copper) with Teflon dielectric. The ICs had a 3 wire braid geometry, with the 3rd wire providing a basic shielding.
The new set of ICs that were used on Sunday is constructed out of very thin magnet wire with a very thin polymer film insulation. Its a completely unshielded IC.
When we did the experiment on Saturday afternoon; using Ballad of a runaway horse (Duets - Rob Wasserman) as the reference track; the magnet wire ICs gave more presence and texture to the voice of Jennifer Warnes. Both Mr. Viren Bakshi and me felt that the ICs were providing a spotlight on the vocals.
As a tradeoff, it does restrict the dynamics and HF extension of the system. I have found the sweet spot by using the new ICs from source to the pre-amp and the older IC from pre to power. This is a temporary arrangement before Mr. Viren Bakshi builds the next set of ICs using cotton insulation.
The ICs that were being used earlier had thicker guage of conductor (copper) with Teflon dielectric. The ICs had a 3 wire braid geometry, with the 3rd wire providing a basic shielding.
The new set of ICs that were used on Sunday is constructed out of very thin magnet wire with a very thin polymer film insulation. Its a completely unshielded IC.
When we did the experiment on Saturday afternoon; using Ballad of a runaway horse (Duets - Rob Wasserman) as the reference track; the magnet wire ICs gave more presence and texture to the voice of Jennifer Warnes. Both Mr. Viren Bakshi and me felt that the ICs were providing a spotlight on the vocals.
As a tradeoff, it does restrict the dynamics and HF extension of the system. I have found the sweet spot by using the new ICs from source to the pre-amp and the older IC from pre to power. This is a temporary arrangement before Mr. Viren Bakshi builds the next set of ICs using cotton insulation.
viren bakhshi
Well-Known Member
Just got back home, after extended listening sessions with the Serenata Violincello speakers in the system, at their home location.
Must say that Serenata Audio, aka Satyaki, has come up with excellent speakers! Another set of horn loaded speakers that have a very natural balance of sound to them, a sense of openness and flow to music, that is a pleasure to listen to.
A welcome addition to the choice in speakers to the Indian audiophile. It's difficult to describe the different perspective in presentation of music that horn speakers give - you just have to hear them to find out. Do audition these speakers!
As far as interconnecting cables go, they are a tweak that you do after you have the basic system right. You do have to listen to them over an extended period though for the change to sink in. Sometimes, when the sound becomes smoother (less distortion!) it seems a bit laid back and less dynamic. Listen for a good while, and things will sound more natural.
Regards,
Viren
Must say that Serenata Audio, aka Satyaki, has come up with excellent speakers! Another set of horn loaded speakers that have a very natural balance of sound to them, a sense of openness and flow to music, that is a pleasure to listen to.
A welcome addition to the choice in speakers to the Indian audiophile. It's difficult to describe the different perspective in presentation of music that horn speakers give - you just have to hear them to find out. Do audition these speakers!
As far as interconnecting cables go, they are a tweak that you do after you have the basic system right. You do have to listen to them over an extended period though for the change to sink in. Sometimes, when the sound becomes smoother (less distortion!) it seems a bit laid back and less dynamic. Listen for a good while, and things will sound more natural.
Regards,
Viren
SerenataAudio
New Member
Had a very pleasant evening listening to a live 'chamber music' performance at NCPA. Schubert, Brahms, Dvorak. Superb performance by some of the finest musicians from across the world. The concert was organized at the small Experimental Theater; therefore no electronic reinforcement was required. The tone of acoustic instruments and its interplay with the acoustics of the venue experienced in its purest form.
I love live performances, and make it a point to visit NCPA once in a couple of months. Such experience calibrates the ears and gives a renewed impetus to the pursuit of closer to live sound with our home audio systems.
BTW; those who live in Mumbai and love Western Classical Music can consider visiting NCPA tomorrow for the 3rd day of this chamber music series.
I love live performances, and make it a point to visit NCPA once in a couple of months. Such experience calibrates the ears and gives a renewed impetus to the pursuit of closer to live sound with our home audio systems.
BTW; those who live in Mumbai and love Western Classical Music can consider visiting NCPA tomorrow for the 3rd day of this chamber music series.
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