Bookshelf vs. Floor stander dilemma Do Floor Standers require higher Volume setting

[jagdish_p]

HI,
I am in the process of replacing my HT Floor standers to speakers which are more musical and have clarity at low volume levels. I am not looking at High Bass. The system will be placed in my living room which has doors and windows all around and is 20X18. Space is not a constraint.

Given the above should I opt for Book Shelves or Floor Standers? I felt that Floor standers have better detail and yes better Bass. My concern is on the volume levels since Floor Standers have higher Max wattage spec (Though Lower end wattage spec is same) compared to Book Shelves in the same series do the floor standers need to be driven at higher volumes for clarity?
Thanks

 

[GeorgeO]

Re: Bookshelf vs. Floor stander dilemma Do Floor Standers require higher Volume set

Why not decide after you have auditioned both?

 

[aashish351]

Re: Bookshelf vs. Floor stander dilemma Do Floor Standers require higher Volume set

Need to be driven at higher volumes has nothing to do with bookshelf or tower design. My Dali Ikon 6 are floor standing speakers but perform very well at low volumes. That is because they are 91.5 dB, 8 ohm speakers and require very less power to produce required listening levels of the desired clarity, detail or musicality etc. But a bookshelf with say, 86dB and 4 ohm, will require far more power than the ikon 6 to give you the desired listening level.

 

[jagdish_p]

Re: Bookshelf vs. Floor stander dilemma Do Floor Standers require higher Volume set

As I have mentioned I liked the floor standers better then book shelves during the . I am not sure how they will be in my living room - played at low volumes - though I am almost sold on the floor standers.

Need some reassurance on my decision

 

[jagdish_p]

Re: Bookshelf vs. Floor stander dilemma Do Floor Standers require higher Volume set

Thanks Ashish. I understood the part about Wattage requirement and Sensitivity of the speakers to achieve a certain decibel level of sound.
My concern is - will a floor stander provide detail and clarity at low decibels?

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Re: Bookshelf vs. Floor stander dilemma Do Floor Standers require higher Volume set

I have always favoured floor-standers, even in a smaller room. The reasons are not simply to do with sound! I think that floor-standers make much nicer pieces of furniture (and we all have to live with our speakers) and also I have the idea (which may be false) that they are more stable than book-shelfers on stands. The stands may, indeed, be heavy enough for safety, but, mentally, they worry me. They are also an additional cost, which may, in the case of good, stable, weighty stands, be substantial.

I am sure that there are certain small-format speakers that could overcome all my objections!

Off-topic, but I wish the hifi world would find a better name than bookshelf as most of them are not designed to up against a wall, let alone put on a bookshelf!

 

[Flash]

Re: Bookshelf vs. Floor stander dilemma Do Floor Standers require higher Volume set

My concern is - will a floor stander provide detail and clarity at low decibels?

Depends on what amp you are going to use and what speakers you are pairing it with.

Some FS sound best at higher volumes and sound dull and recessed at lower. However the partnering amp plays a vital part as well

Only an audition with your amp will give you a clearer picture

 

[ranjeetrain]

Re: Bookshelf vs. Floor stander dilemma Do Floor Standers require higher Volume set

Need to be driven at higher volumes has nothing to do with bookshelf or tower design.

Completely agreed!

Whether or not a speaker will need to be driven hard and loud depends entirely on the speaker design. And it has nothing to do with the specs (or the cabinet size within the same series).

Some speakers that excel (especially) at loud volumes: PMC, DynAudio, B&W.

Some speakers that excel (especially) at soft volumes: Harbeth, Dali.

Please note, the above is a loose classification. All the above manufacturers have a large line up of speakers and I have classified them based on general characteristics. And this classification doesn't necessarily hold true for their entire line-up (past-present-and future).

I have always favoured floor-standers, ... ... ... they are more stable than book-shelfers on stands. The stands ... ... ... are also an additional cost, which may, in the case of good, stable, weighty stands, be substantial.

Off-topic, but I wish the hifi world would find a better name than bookshelf as most of them are not designed to up against a wall, let alone put on a bookshelf!

+3 (+1 for first point and +2 for the second) hyeah:

 

[Thtpro]

Re: Bookshelf vs. Floor stander dilemma Do Floor Standers require higher Volume set

In general Floor standers are much better sounding speakers even at low volumes- compared to book shelf- because they are full range

As mentioned earlier -- Audition and you can decide for yourself

 

[reignofchaos]

Re: Bookshelf vs. Floor stander dilemma Do Floor Standers require higher Volume set

In general Floor standers are much better sounding speakers even at low volumes- compared to book shelf- because they are full range

As mentioned earlier -- Audition and you can decide for yourself

Beg to disagree! In my experience, at the same price from the same manufacturer - the bookshelf almost always sounds better than an equivalent value floorstander. This is especially evident at the lower end of the price spectrum.

It is rather simple normally for the same price, the bookshelf will be from a higher end range that the floorstander and hence will have better drivers, better crossovers, better cabinets and overall better design. This means it'll sound better as well. Only thing that will potentially be missing is low bass below 40Hz which is a non issue unless you are a trance/electronic music fan.

 

[SatMumbai]

Re: Bookshelf vs. Floor stander dilemma Do Floor Standers require higher Volume set

Bookshelf speakers (also called Standmount speakers to avoid the confusion) are, IMO, a compromise. In my HiFi journey I toggled from FS to BS to FS to BS and all this has happened only because of space constraint.

When ever I moved from Bookshelf to FS, I have always enjoyed the scale of the presentation. The logic is very simple. Generally most FS have more number of drivers (1 or 2 or even some times 3 more drivers than BS) so they are able to move more air. Also the cabinet volume is a lot larger in FS when compared to BS which adds to the scale. All this is at a basic physics level.

However some BS might be able to sound more refined compared to some FS at a lower price.

Proac Response D Two are one of the most capable BS I owned (next to KEF Reference 201/2) and when I moved from Proac to Tannoy RS DC6T, the three dimensionality of sound is amazing. Yes, there is a small compromise on the treble sweetness but overall Tannoys offered a lot more at much lower price.

Added to the stability of the speakers and 'furniture value' add in favour to FS. I only wish I had space for FS and there would be a huge FS shaped hole burnt in my pocket!

BTW, some say BS offer a lot more speed when compared to FS due to lower cabinet volume but I failed to observe this advantage.. EVER!

 

[ranjeetrain]

Re: Bookshelf vs. Floor stander dilemma Do Floor Standers require higher Volume set

So this thread is going to the FS vs BS direction.

In that case, I have to say that, while a BS *can* satisfy most listeners in a typical Indian household (small listening areas) but is always a compromise (like SatMumbai has pointed out). I always prepare myself mentally for a smaller scale of presentation whenever listening to a bookshelf system.

Other set of advantages an FS offers have already been listed by Thad, so won't repeat all of it, but in a word, ergonomics. FS have a much better usability in terms of convenience and total cost of ownership.

BS speakers are popular at the entry level of HiFi because they are cheaper to implement and get it to sound right than FS. But once you break out of entry-level, most of the best sounding speakers are either FS or full-sized monitors.

As a matter of fact, a BS speaker *CANNOT* deliver the goods as much as a FS or a full sized monitor can. It's science, physics. A good design can find ways to overcome some limitations but can't totally go against it. And the science is -- to make full range of music you need certain volume of air to be moved. To move that certain volume of air, you need a certain piston-size or a cone-area.

One argument which is given in favor of BS often is - dynamics and speed. Sure, at the entry level BS speakers *tend to be* faster, but that's that. Move a little up and you will find FS as fast as BS and delivering full range of dynamics and details that BS can't even approach.

Audiophiles make hue and cry about frequencies above the listening range. However, they very conveniently forget the bottom range of very clearly audible range, which is entirely missing from the presentation of a BS. Genres such as Blues, Jazz, Bass and Drum; these all sound so incomplete on BS designs.

On a personal front, I have owned BS, FS and full-sized monitors. And quite honestly, the best form seems to be FS for me. Much more manageable, much more justifiable and much more listenable compared to BS.

To address the main question here: Do Floor Standers require higher Volume set? The answer is -- NO, they don't. In fact, for the same series, FS are a few dBs more sensitive, due to more number of drivers and larger piston-area. So, given the same amount of current, they will produce more loudness. But yes, they may come across as a slightly tougher load on the amp.

 

[jagdish_p]

Re: Bookshelf vs. Floor stander dilemma Do Floor Standers require higher Volume set

Proac Response D Two are one of the most capable BS I owned (next to KEF Reference 201/2) and when I moved from Proac to Tannoy RS DC6T, the three dimensionality of sound is amazing. Yes, there is a small compromise on the treble sweetness but overall Tannoys offered a lot more at much lower price.

Thanks to all the FMs my doubt is cleared.
And Yes I agree on Tannoys. I am planning to buy the Tannoy Revolution DC 6T SEs. Selected them after listening to the book shelves. What are the recommended Amps for these speakers? That will be my next change

 

[SatMumbai]

Re: Bookshelf vs. Floor stander dilemma Do Floor Standers require higher Volume set

Thanks to all the FMs my doubt is cleared.
And Yes I agree on Tannoys. I am planning to buy the Tannoy Revolution DC 6T SEs.

These Tannoys are some what hidden gems. I loved the Signature edition but the newer SE edition is supposedly much more cohesive! Given the same tweeter (I guess) as Signature , I would not pair it with any amp which tends to sound bright. May be NAD can be a good way to piar them. I guess I am rubbing off my preferred way of listening.. (Very Dynamic but a tad warm not too much upfront)
Luckily they are 90db efficient so tube amps can be brought into the equation and especially those Lyrita amps do offer a great VFM.
Check out the one that is in the sale section.. It might be a very affordable way to get into good sound.. Very GOOD sound!!

 

[alpha1]

Re: Bookshelf vs. Floor stander dilemma Do Floor Standers require higher Volume set

Can anyone explain HOW a bookshelf speaker will reduce the floor space consumption over a floorstanding one?

The reason I ask this is because I have come across quite a few people who have this perception.

As far as I have experienced, the bookshelf will require a stand which has good base. This base will occupy almost the same area as a floor stander!
Also since the center of gravity of BS on the stand is pretty high (and the BS is NOT attached to the stand) - compared to a floorstand, you also have a higher risk of tipping the speaker over (high probability in subject's tippled state)

 

[jagdish_p]

Re: Bookshelf vs. Floor stander dilemma Do Floor Standers require higher Volume set

May be NAD can be a good way to piar them. I guess I am rubbing off my preferred way of listening.. (Very Dynamic but a tad warm not too much upfront)
Luckily they are 90db efficient so tube amps can be brought into the equation and especially those Lyrita amps do offer a great VFM.
Check out the one that is in the sale section.. It might be a very affordable way to get into good sound.. Very GOOD sound!!

Thanks Sat. I auditioned the Tannoy DC6Ts paired with CA 840A and they sounded good. Yes I also like the warm sounding set ups - probably NADs will be better. Switching to a tube Amp is revolutionary to me - will do some study and think about it. Yes coming to think of it, the High end Philips Tube Radio of my childhood did have a warm sound.

 

[jagdish_p]

Re: Bookshelf vs. Floor stander dilemma Do Floor Standers require higher Volume set

As far as I have experienced, the bookshelf will require a stand which has good base. This base will occupy almost the same area as a floor stander!
(high probability in subject's tippled state)

+1 to that. The only reason I would choose a bookshelf - stand mounter would be the cost. Even the cost factor also is not really valid if we add the cost of stands.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Re: Bookshelf vs. Floor stander dilemma Do Floor Standers require higher Volume set

Can anyone explain HOW a bookshelf speaker will reduce the floor space consumption over a floorstanding one?

Probably only if they are hung on the wall. As mentioned, to actually do that, requires a search for speakers that are designed for it.

If the name "Bookshelf" is unfortunate, the abbreviation BS is worse! In my brains list of abbreviations it stands for something much ruder than "bookshelf." Whenever I see something about "BS Speakers" on the forum, I immediately think it must be some new marketing scame! hyeah:

 

[mpw]

Re: Bookshelf vs. Floor stander dilemma Do Floor Standers require higher Volume set

Can anyone explain HOW a bookshelf speaker will reduce the floor space consumption over a floorstanding one?

The reason I ask this is because I have come across quite a few people who have this perception.

As far as I have experienced, the bookshelf will require a stand which has good base. This base will occupy almost the same area as a floor stander!
Also since the center of gravity of BS on the stand is pretty high (and the BS is NOT attached to the stand) - compared to a floorstand, you also have a higher risk of tipping the speaker over (high probability in subject's tippled state)

=========================================

alpha1,

there are some notions about standmounters ( now that my friend Thad has pointed out the BS ) :lol: which need to be seen in a fresh light.

a. Most standmounts have only 2 drivers. The crossover is simpler and in my view this leads to a much better sound than a comparably prices Floorstander.

b. Having used standmounts for all my listening till date... yes it is true.. standmounds need good stands but the nice thing is that you will be free to pull out / pull in / toe out / toe in .. as you like

A Floorstander would make the above a laborious effort.

For a period of time when you dont need to listen to music.. you can just move the standmounts closer and compress the space required.

b. Have been using standmounts for a few years and i had the same fear.. tipping over.. but Bostick Blutack under the speakers will do the trick and keep them relatively secure.

c. But if anyone intentionally gives it a hard push.. well crrassh you go.. i suppose that will be the same for any object.

I suppose in a tippled state you are well advised to stay away from fiddling around with the speakers ( be it floorstanders of standmounts ) and this is no BS !!

select the speaker based on the sound.. and your budget

The very reason that standmounts exist is that they are better sounding at the same price point ( all else being the same ).

The reason why Floorstanders exist at that very price point is that many folks are under the mistaken impression that bigger is better ( besides other things )

Yeah.. the good old audio caveat applies.. YMMV !!

rgds,
mpw

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Re: Bookshelf vs. Floor stander dilemma Do Floor Standers require higher Volume set

A Floorstander would make the above a laborious effort.

Actually, it doesn't --- unless you have spikes into a wooden floor. In which case you probably would for your stand too.

But... you are not used to floorstanders; I am not used to bookshelf/stands...

It is a pain moving house with floorstanders. One really must keep the original packing, and that is necessarily a big as the speakers. Even if the cardboard boxes can be flattened, they still take a big chunk of space.