Boomy bass in some songs

[chander]

On OOPS - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_of_Phase_Stereo

an excerpt from the article -
"This technique has been previously used to eliminate vocals in a stereo track (as vocals tend to be panned centre) to create crude karaoke tracks, or generate surround channels from a stereo source, such as in Dolby Pro Logic.[5] It has also been used in the recording process to include tracks that were only audible once an OOPS technique was applied. This feature can be observed in several of the Beatles' stereo albums.[6] Australian band Cinema Prague recorded a single track Meldatype that contained two songs played simultaneously, one of which was only audible after an OOPS technique was applied. It consisted of two mono tracks: a loud and distorted electric guitar playing chords repetitively, as well as a quiet vocal track. The guitar had one of the channels inverted, while the vocal track was identical in both channels. During normal playback, the guitar would be heard throughout the entire track. When the channels were summed to mono, however, the regular and inverted guitar tracks would cancel out, revealing the vocal track to the listener."

Interesting.

 

[Bloom@83]

So again an unsubstantiated claim about more 25% recordings globally (I don’t know how many millions that number would be ) being out of phase , without being backed by any sources whatsoever.
Brilliant.

 

[Fiftyfifty]

Approximately one in three recordings are recorded OUT of absolute phase ( in both channels ). They will never play back correctly, unless speaker leads on BOTH channels are reversed. It is heard wide band, but for me, very noticeable in the bass regions. Flip speaker leads and see. Best to DENOTE all out of absolute phase recordings, and play them back properly. Every third listening night can be so designated .

Jeff

I am in agreement with @drlowmu 's post, though it may not necessarily be the cause of boomy bass. Let us not debate on whether it is 25 pc or 33 pc or 10 pc. I like to view this from two angles:
1. Whether phase reversal of BOTH channels makes a difference? One can easily test this by reversing the red and black wires at the amp's speaker terminals. Do you or do you not hear a difference? (Remember to reverse both channels, not just one)
2. Are there recordings that are reverse phase? If there weren't, amp and DAC manufacturers would not provide a phase reversal switch. An experiment would be to pick a record that you think doesn't sound as good as it sounds at your neighbor's place and experiment with phase reversal.

Best wishes

 

[drlowmu]

So again an unsubstantiated claim about more 25% recordings globally (I don’t know how many millions that number would be ) being out of phase , without being backed by any sources whatsoever.
Brilliant.

Simply Google " Absolute Phase of Recordings " and you will discover a multitude of sources.



Read the written background on this subject.

Then, after that, teach yourself the aural differences on your own hi fi, so you are attuned to hear and correct for this.

It is not particularly the sole cause of " boomy bass ".

Absolute phase reversal certainly has an effect , on the entire music's presentation.


Photographic Analogy : It may be akin to viewing at the negative of a black and white photograph, rather than the positive. All the information is there, but...... it is not quite right !!

Jeff

 

[Bloom@83]

Simply Google " Absolute Phase of Recordings " and you will discover a multitude of sources.



Read the written background on this subject.

Then, after that, teach yourself the aural differences on your own hi fi, so you are attuned to hear and correct for this.

It is not particularly the sole cause of " boomy bass ".

Absolute phase reversal certainly has an effect , on the entire music's presentation.


Photographic Analogy : It may be akin to viewing at the negative of a black and white photograph, rather than the positive. All the information is there, but...... it is not quite right !!

Jeff

Sorry , when you make a claim then you should share the exact links which substantiate it -in this case that 25% or more of all globally published recordings are out of absolute phase- which I find very hard to believe.

 

[drlowmu]

Sorry , when you make a claim then you should share the exact links which substantiate it -in this case that 25% or more of all globally published recordings are out of absolute phase- which I find very hard to believe.

I am not quoting or referencing other people at all. There is no need to.

This is from my own direct personal experience........ over about 50 years.

I now fortunately own some where between 10,000 and 13,000 LPs , which is an adequate statistical sample.

Do or believe as you wish. This is fine with me . Have a great day .

Jeff

 

[Bloom@83]

I am not quoting or referencing other people at all. There is no need to.

This is from my own direct personal experience........ over about 50 years.

I now fortunately own some where between 10,000 and 13,000 LPs , which is an adequate statistical sample.

Do or believe as you wish. This is fine with me . Have a great day .

Jeff

And I personally know at least two people each having similar volume of LPs in their personal collection , veteran music lovers and audiophiles for decades ,who do not acknowledge your claim.
Thank you. Have a great day too.

 

[Dr.Gary]

And I personally know at least two people each having similar volume of LPs in their personal collection , veteran music lovers and audiophiles for decades ,who do not acknowledge your claim.
Thank you. Have a great day too.

According to a friend of mine who is a well known vinyl disc mastering engineer and who has nearly fifty years of experience, a change in absolute polarity at the speakers or at the cartridge is definitely audible, and the audible effect of a change in absolute polarity is most noticeable on music that has been recorded in stereo using a single pair of microphones.

 

[Bloom@83]

According to a friend of mine who is a well known vinyl disc mastering engineer and who has nearly fifty years of experience, a change in absolute polarity at the speakers or at the cartridge is definitely audible, and the audible effect of a change in absolute polarity is most noticeable on music that has been recorded in stereo using a single pair of microphones.

I’m not contesting that.I’m very much aware it’s audible. I’m questioning the claim of > 25% of all recordings having that issue.

 

[Dr.Gary]

I’m not contesting that.I’m very much aware it’s audible. I’m questioning the claim of > 25% of all recordings having that issue.

Please understand that you are way ahead of me. Because of this, my first question was whether or not polarity reversals are even audible. My question now is whether or not it is possible for a listener to either determine or say anything about the absolute polarity of any given recording. It seems to me that at best, all a listener can say is that he/she prefers the sound that is produced by one hookup polarity a opposed to the other. Also, when dealing with multi-mic'd multi-channel mixes that are likely made at different times and using different equipment with likely and totally unknown numbers of polarity reversals, the notion that a correct absolute polarity exists for a master tape/disc strikes me as being preposterous.

 

[DB1989]

Please understand that you are way ahead of me. Because of this, my first question was whether or not polarity reversals are even audible. My question now is whether or not it is possible for a listener to either determine or say anything about the absolute polarity of any given recording. It seems to me that at best, all a listener can say is that he/she prefers the sound that is produced by one hookup polarity a opposed to the other. Also, when dealing with multi-mic'd multi-channel mixes that are likely made at different times and using different equipment with likely and totally unknown numbers of polarity reversals, the notion that a correct absolute polarity exists for a master tape/disc strikes me as being preposterous.

I can definitely relate to this. For those times when i had a boo boo moment and had reversed the polarity unintentionally, i could not always tell whether i preferred one sound to the other, just that it sounded different. And this 'difference' is the reason why i detected that the polarity was reversed in the first place. For content that I'd heard for the first time or did not have it down in memory, i simply couldn't tell.

The only times that i can definitely tell something is off is when polarity of only one speaker in a stereo pair is reversed.

I’m not contesting that.I’m very much aware it’s audible. I’m questioning the claim of > 25% of all recordings having that issue.

Coincidentally, my DAC has an option to reverse the polarity from the convenience of my listening chair without having to fiddle around with wires. I always wondered who, in their right mind, would want the polarity to be reversed. I'd only used it as a method of determining whether I'd hooked up my speakers correctly upon detecting any anomaly.

However, If it is indeed true that 25% of tracks are recorded with polarity reversed, I believe its time to re-listen all my favs with polarity set to usual and reversed back to back to decide which one i prefer.

 

[Dr.Gary]

I can definitely relate to this. For those times when i had a boo boo moment and had reversed the polarity unintentionally, i could not always tell whether i preferred one sound to the other, just that it sounded different. And this 'difference' is the reason why i detected that the polarity was reversed in the first place. For content that I'd heard for the first time or did not have it down in memory, i simply couldn't tell.

The only times that i can definitely tell something is off is when polarity of only one speaker in a stereo pair is reversed.



Coincidentally, my DAC has an option to reverse the polarity from the convenience of my listening chair without having to fiddle around with wires. I always wondered who, in their right mind, would want the polarity to be reversed. I'd only used it as a method of determining whether I'd hooked up my speakers correctly upon detecting any anomaly.

However, If it is indeed true that 25% of tracks are recorded with polarity reversed, I believe its time to re-listen all my favs with polarity set to usual and reversed back to back to decide which one i prefer.

It's great that you have the convenience to reverse polarity from your listening chair. So, please re-listen to your favs and report back with your findings. Also, base your assessment on a cut by cut basis as opposed too assuming that all cuts on a given record have the same polarity.

 

[Dr.Gary]

I am in agreement with @drlowmu 's post, though it may not necessarily be the cause of boomy bass. Let us not debate on whether it is 25 pc or 33 pc or 10 pc. I like to view this from two angles:
1. Whether phase reversal of BOTH channels makes a difference? One can easily test this by reversing the red and black wires at the amp's speaker terminals. Do you or do you not hear a difference? (Remember to reverse both channels, not just one)
2. Are there recordings that are reverse phase? If there weren't, amp and DAC manufacturers would not provide a phase reversal switch. An experiment would be to pick a record that you think doesn't sound as good as it sounds at your neighbor's place and experiment with phase reversal.

Best wishes

It is widely known and accepted as fact that a polarity reversal of BOTH channels makes an audible difference. So, if you are interested in the pursuit of knowledge, truth and fact, it would be great if you performed the experiment that you propose and share your findings with everyone. Specifically, based on your findings, provide a short list of recordings that you believe have the correct polarity and and another short list of recording that, in your opinion, do not have the correct polarity.

 

[Dr.Gary]

I am not quoting or referencing other people at all. There is no need to.

This is from my own direct personal experience........ over about 50 years.

I now fortunately own some where between 10,000 and 13,000 LPs , which is an adequate statistical sample.

Do or believe as you wish. This is fine with me . Have a great day .

Jeff

Rather than pontificaating, if you want to make a real contribution to this thread, how about providing a short list of recordings that you believe have the correct polarity as well as a another short list of recordings that, in your opinion, do not have the correct polarity. That way, people who are interested in this issue can perform their own listing tests that are based on your recommended recordings and decide for themselves.