boycott companies selling speakers in India. Join hands now!

[anm]

I think we shall start a thread of brands that we support due to their reasonable pricing in India.

 

[bhuvanmisra]

we could consider an e-signature campaign (thru 3rd party website) and mail it across to all companies that operate in india.

better still if one of us could become a "citizen journalist" and share "our plight" with media channels . we have many veterans from the forum who could easily pull this one thru. i'm sure we will find well skilled amateur videographers amongst the group too.

 

[murali]

Just one more observation/remark on this subject...
If you really dig deeper into the companies who distribute high-end products, you will find that many of them are affiliated to or owned (directly or indirectly) by people who are primarily exporters (mainly textiles, coir products etc) who in turn have subtantial duty benefits which they avail of and pay hardly any duties when they bring in the elctronics, speakers etc. Effectively, if you further add up 30-40% margins also, you will find that the local sale prices are sky-high yielding fat profits to both distributor and dealer.

In my last 10 years of high-end audio experience, except for a couple of subwoofers, I always purchased from outside India, paid duties and fines, but still ended up spending less than local purchases. Plus, choices are plenty.

Finally, let us not get disillusioned talking about service and support. How many dealers or distributors have people competent enough to install, service and support efficiently their products?

Just sharing an experience.
Thanks.
murali

 

[Yogesh]

Just one more observation/remark on this subject...
If you really dig deeper into the companies who distribute high-end products, you will find that many of them are affiliated to or owned (directly or indirectly) by people who are primarily exporters (mainly textiles, coir products etc) who in turn have subtantial duty benefits which they avail of and pay hardly any duties when they bring in the elctronics, speakers etc. Effectively, if you further add up 30-40% margins also, you will find that the local sale prices are sky-high yielding fat profits to both distributor and dealer.

In my last 10 years of high-end audio experience, except for a couple of subwoofers, I always purchased from outside India, paid duties and fines, but still ended up spending less than local purchases. Plus, choices are plenty.

Finally, let us not get disillusioned talking about service and support. How many dealers or distributors have people competent enough to install, service and support efficiently their products?

Just sharing an experience.
Thanks.
murali

Well said murali.

 

[Jith77]

one should account for the methodology of pricing by brands for electronics...

usually if a country's purchasing power is high in that segment the prices are lower...
remember the old mobile phone market in india....the differential cost was much higher in india in the intial days when mobile phones werent as much popular..so it may not be the dealer who is always at fault...

as for purchasing the rightly priced brand....it happens naturally...VFM is definitely in the mind of almost all customers....if a product is over priced you smiply dont buy..

As to encourage dealers for right pricing........one can contact all dealers selling the stuff in india and get the quotations ...instead of bringing down the price from a local vendor who quoted higher initialy (coz of our ref to other quotes) we can buy from one who did quote us resonably... ofcourse, the transportation cost shouldnt be prohibitive

 

[gobble]

we could consider an e-signature campaign (thru 3rd party website) and mail it across to all companies that operate in india.

better still if one of us could become a "citizen journalist" and share "our plight" with media channels . we have many veterans from the forum who could easily pull this one thru. i'm sure we will find well skilled amateur videographers amongst the group too.

During British rule the freedom fighters dumped foreign goods (chiefly cotton clothes) into a heap and set them afire ... everybody lets dump all our electronics goods and hi-fi gear into a heap and set them on fire C'mon!!

 

[psychotropic]

he he he, you're referring to a certain Linn/ProAc distributor i am guessing

But that may not be the case for an FX entertainment or The Audio People. And if they do get some benefit some other way, that I think is okay, so long as the products are not overpriced in India,

But if you look at stuff like B&W and so on, it's ridiculous the markup that is added. Yes, the only way to make a difference is to pick a brand that is priced fairly like Wharfedale, Usher, Cambridge Audio, Denon, Marantz and ignore/boycott the overpriced ones like B&W.

If you really dig deeper into the companies who distribute high-end products, you will find that many of them are affiliated to or owned (directly or indirectly) by people who are primarily exporters (mainly textiles, coir products etc)

 

[Rem]

he he he, you're referring to a certain Linn/ProAc distributor i am guessing

But that may not be the case for an FX entertainment or The Audio People. And if they do get some benefit some other way, that I think is okay, so long as the products are not overpriced in India,

But if you look at stuff like B&W and so on, it's ridiculous the markup that is added. Yes, the only way to make a difference is to pick a brand that is priced fairly like Wharfedale, Usher, Cambridge Audio, Denon, Marantz and ignore/boycott the overpriced ones like B&W.

Even with well priced brands like Marantz some dealers over price them so much that I have heard quotes varying from 26k to 41k for a product like PM7001(when it was under production)

Some dealers just sort of test the waters to see whether the client has any idea about the pricing and if they find tht buyr isnt tht aware of the pricing they hike the price to ridiculous levels.That is something I hate.

Another issue with some dealers dealing with multiple brands is that they tend to overprice products from some companies so much so that the customer would never find it vfm and end up buying product tht the dealer wants them to buy.

I guess you can also add some MA products as being overpriced but no where near as consistently across the product range as B&W

I believe NAD also is overpriced.

 

[rallynut]

During British rule the freedom fighters dumped foreign goods (chiefly cotton clothes) into a heap and set them afire ... everybody lets dump all our electronics goods and hi-fi gear into a heap and set them on fire C'mon!!

LOL.love that one.hardcore desi now eh gobble??

 

[qoolss]

I guess the idea of making a list of dealers who are overpriced is good as it will help differentiating what is wrong and what is good. so let's support good and screw bad dealers who are merely relying on brand name and selling over priced goods to us.

in reference to example of Skoda and VW sharing the same platfom. I would like to add that there is vast difference in assembly of those products along with features they are giving and history attached. in speaker cases its not like B&W are only expensive in india it is about every other speakers,subs or other electronic items are expensive for reason which are not justifiable.

Once again I would like to come with names of those dealers along with price diffrentiation and then diacrd them completely. I am sure the Human chain (strongest and biggest) will do its job and eventually will be helpfull for all not only us memebers of this forum.

regards,

Swat

 

[arj]

I doubt whether boycotting cos is going to be any benefit to anyone..this is not a socialist economy and people are selling products to make money and most are smart enough to know what price to sell at to maximise revenue. to influence any product via any mass movement , it should be a mass product which thrives on volumes

The hifi we are talking about is not general electronics , these are high value /low volume items and not so price sensitive ie if the price jumps up form 2 lakhs to 2.5 lakhs only 1 out of the potential 10 may not buy it for that reason.

But the distributor still makes 2.5 x 9 =22.5 lakhs instead of 20 lakhs...so he will prefer to sell less but at more. If not he has got his price wrong and may either cut it Or move over to another product in order to make more !

as murali said , you anyway do not get warranty support here so the option of importing directly is always open..so why pay more here ?

 

[murali_n]

Hai all,

I would like to remind everyone about the Cell Phones and the Call rates that Telcos charged in the 90s. Once BSNL entered the fray the call rates started tumbling down and STD rates which were in the zone of Rs.16/- per min are now rock bottom. Similarly if Indigenous brands design their own models using imported drivers and maintain good SQ, and start to market them I think there wont be craze for imported models/ brands and they should do it in large Volumes with consistent quality, which will give foreign brands a jolt at least in the Budget/ mid-priced segment.

N.Murali.

 

[Hi-Fi]

Very good point N Murali. But unfortunately, there are no proper courses or universities in India that teach the required level of the science of acoustics, electroacoustics and psychoacoustics. Without this, having a high end loudspeaker manufacturing industry will always be a distant dream. The education on these subjects is so low that even the level of discussions of the so called experts in our forums is a clear indication of how poorly the science of acoustics, electroacoustics and psychoacoustics is understood in India due to lack of opportunity to study the subject to the highest level. I am not saying that we Indians are stupid, but I am sure if we all did a little bit to get our Indian education system started in this field, we will have the whole problem in this discussion solved. More people educated in this field will increase consumption of the better speaker products leading to lower prices, competitive local industry, eventually rational taxes for the local industry to survive, and finally a huge international market to export to. Like our IT industry, it will be a gold mine for India!

 

[ajinkya]

Again, I gently mention that unless we have accurate breakdown of a dealer's pricing (what percentage goes to the Govt., what to the main company and what to the dealer), this discussion is going to be completely academic. Can't some knowledgeable member supply this information somehow?

 

[micjak77]

Very good point N Murali. But unfortunately, there are no proper courses or universities in India that teach the required level of the science of acoustics, electroacoustics and psychoacoustics. Without this, having a high end loudspeaker manufacturing industry will always be a distant dream. The education on these subjects is so low that even the level of discussions of the so called experts in our forums is a clear indication of how poorly the science of acoustics, electroacoustics and psychoacoustics is understood in India due to lack of opportunity to study the subject to the highest level. I am not saying that we Indians are stupid, but I am sure if we all did a little bit to get our Indian education system started in this field, we will have the whole problem in this discussion solved. More people educated in this field will increase consumption of the better speaker products leading to lower prices, competitive local industry, eventually rational taxes for the local industry to survive, and finally a huge international market to export to. Like our IT industry, it will be a gold mine for India!

Hi fi your post about science of acoustics, electroacoustics and psychoacoustics sounds too far fetched it bought a smile on my face as I read it. Your post implies that ministry of education might save the day for us.

 

[arj]

Again, I gently mention that unless we have accurate breakdown of a dealer's pricing (what percentage goes to the Govt., what to the main company and what to the dealer), this discussion is going to be completely academic. Can't some knowledgeable member supply this information somehow?

Ajinkya it will not get you anything. the chain is somewhat as below for simplistic model.

If cost of the product (Materials + labour) = X
manufacturer manufactures the product at X
Sells it to the distributor at 3X-6X
Distributor sells to dealer at 6X -8X
Dealer sells at 8X to anywhere he feels the price is right.

the whole markup considers Customs, freight, Cost of capital, salaries, advertisement,risk of obsolesence etc etc.

but the point nto note is thet the manufacturere has already got the money from it...the dealers deal with Product obsolesence ie they buyt the product based on a forecast but if they do not sell it is their risk to dispose (hence the sale)

funnilly the same is true for Pesi/coke etc.. for the Rs10 you pay for a bottle, cost of the drintk may be re 1, cost of the bottling around re 2-3 cost of marketing around 2-3 and the rest as margins/salaries etc

 

[cha_indian]

Hai all,

I would like to remind everyone about the Cell Phones and the Call rates that Telcos charged in the 90s. Once BSNL entered the fray the call rates started tumbling down and STD rates which were in the zone of Rs.16/- per min are now rock bottom. Similarly if Indigenous brands design their own models using imported drivers and maintain good SQ, and start to market them I think there wont be craze for imported models/ brands and they should do it in large Volumes with consistent quality, which will give foreign brands a jolt at least in the Budget/ mid-priced segment.

N.Murali.

I agree with you 100%

I wonder why indian companies cannot copy western brands....chinese are so good at it. I currently own my entire HiFi equipment which is made in china. I wonder why we Indians are reluctant to replicate successfull products... I feel that companies like Norge should be launching DAC, cables, CDPlayers etc which are comparable to likes of Yamaha, Marantz. I hate the *elite* mentallity of Indian HiFi companies.

 

[Hi-Fi]

Hi fi your post about science of acoustics, electroacoustics and psychoacoustics sounds too far fetched it bought a smile on my face as I read it. Your post implies that ministry of education might save the day for us.

Sorry if it sounds too philosophical, but if the ministry of education has not done anything till now, they aint gonna do it till someone makes them do it. Till that happens, we will continue to crib about the sorry state of affairs and China will continue to go laughing all the way to the bank. China started the technology education process about two decades ago which is why they are where they are now in this business. These days loudspeakers are as common as light bulbs. They are in almost every gadget made. So why should the universities not teach the subject? And why should Indian manufacturing industry not get a piece of this huge global pie when we have a huge market and all the raw materials locally available? Makes me wonder!

 

[cha_indian]

Sorry if it sounds too philosophical, but if the ministry of education has not done anything till now, they aint gonna do it till someone makes them do it. Till that happens, we will continue to crib about the sorry state of affairs and China will continue to go laughing all the way to the bank. China started the technology education process about two decades ago which is why they are where they are now in this business. These days loudspeakers are as common as light bulbs. They are in almost every gadget made. So why should the universities not teach the subject? And why should Indian manufacturing industry not get a peice of this huge global pie when we have a huge market and all the raw materials locally available? Makes me wonder!

HiFi, i not totally believe that China/chinese are superior is Engineering. IIT and IISc existed even during the Jawahar Lal nehru's time. I feel that chinese are good at reverse engineering and selling at low price. Both can be done by Indians with a little bit of effort. Indian brands seems like are resigned to the fate that they just cannot compete with Western in terms of quality and Chinse in terms of price. This is appallling attitude to me

 

[Hi-Fi]

The members on this forum who have visited the Norge factory in Bombay must be quite amused with your expectations. The Chinese Communist Party have encouraged stealing industrial secrets and copying as a national strategy. The Indian secular democratic constitution luckily does not openly support such criminal ideologies and India was never desperate like the communists were twenty years ago when their whole system began to collapse and fail. But the Chinese also did invest heavily into technology education and sponsored students by the hoards to international universities abroad. They also invested heavily into infrastructure, proper electric power supply, massive road networks, automobiles, railways, mega sea and air cargo facilities etc. You cannot imagine the massive scale of all this unless you visit there and see for yourself. I have visited some of the microphone and loudspeaker factories in China and can tell you the loudspeaker factories in India are nothing to compare and probably never will be if we all don't do something to help the education system support it.