Breaking up with Hi Fi

[raghupb]

Arrange a date between Alexa and Spotify. Then she will take over your life.
Literally you will be, in cricket terms:
"12th man paani dene aaya, out hoke chala gaya"
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[Miany]

I think its more expectations than about guilt. In life we can have expectations that come and go from anything and anyone, the word guilt would be wrong to use and not appropriate. But in Vivek's case its not guilt or anything like that. I believe its that he just needs to get used to listening to audio through a hifi system. Its more about learning to listen properly rather than anything else. It just that he needs to devote some time from his side and a little dedication. He needs to spend time to understand his system. Background listening doesnt take much effort but a serious hifi system will take effort and rewards are then appropriate.

I think you are absolutely right! Atleast, i can relate to whatever you have said. Higher money does not really meet high expectations. But, most of the times, something that can satisfy you more might cost more too..

Also, buying equipments is also a hit or miss. You read all the reviews, ask friends and then buy something, which may not satisfy you in your room. Sometimes, a simple tweak or a change of component might fix that. I have a similar experience with ATC SCM 19 Actives. When paired with ATC Pre-amp, they sounded somewhat dry and clinical to me. I was listening to all the new stuff and never really going back to my older albums that i used to enjoy before, because i was not able to connect with the music like the way i used to before. Changing that to a lesser expensive Schiit Freya with Tubes fixed that for me. I started going back to my older albums and started enjoying those like i used to do before. You need to have patience and believe that you will get it right at the end.. Thats my experience. Just listen more.. do some minor tweaking (play around with positioning of speakers if possible, changing cables, some minor room acoustics etc) and see it it changes anything in the sound signature in a way that you like.

Also, there is no point in expecting that your favorite old song is going to sound stunning with some added clarity and superior dynamics in your multi-lakh setup. For eg, I found most of older Dasettan ( Dr. K. J. Yesudas) songs seriously revealing the flaws in our recording/mastering... a Steely-Dan song from a similar era might be absolutely the opposite. Now, that does not stop me from listening to Dasettan songs. In fact, i enjoy them equally (if not more) as the latter. Once you realize this and have always this in your mind, you can peacefully listen. Just MHO....

 

[arj]

The other day in my car, I asked Alexa to 'Play songs that I have not heard before'. She played all songs that I heard before. She did not know that I listened to all those songs on Spotify.

Or did she mean to say "You two timing so and so, I know you have been with Spotify ! "

 

[raghupb]

Or did she mean to say "You two timing so and so, I know you have been with Spotify ! "

Is it why this hobby is called "Hi-Fidelity"?
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[Deleted member 15865]

and more importantly discover new music.

Like when @tuff came over and introduced me to the 30-40 piece orchestras on YouTube playing Hindi songs - those old tunes sound so grand plus you get the charm of a live performance. Something I never imagined I’d start liking!

 

[arunkvivek]

Is it why this hobby is called "Hi-Fidelity"?
Cheers,
Raghu

Or did she mean to say "You two timing so and so, I know you have been with Spotify ! "

Arrange a date between Alexa and Spotify. Then she will take over your life.
Literally you will be, in cricket terms:
"12th man paani dene aaya, out hoke chala gaya"
Cheers,
Raghu

Simple humour turning out to be dark ones given that it's being cracked up on somebody's break up. What are friends for!!!!

 

[raghupb]

Simple humour turning out to be dark ones given that it's being cracked up on somebody's break up. What are friends for!!!!

Not really. I think @Vivek Batra is playing "hard to get" with the Luxmans/Klipschs.
It'll all settle down. They will soon kiss and make up @arunkvivek

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[ssf]

An interject of humour is quite essential in this otherwise very serious hobby of ours.

 

[arj]

This is just a lovers tiff post marriage around "Tum Pehle to aise nahin thi" As usual the Hifi will remain as is and Vivek will need to compromise on expectations

...Divorce should be a well thought of decision

 

[Vivek Batra]

I love dosas like almost everyone else. My go to places are select Udupi restaurants, especially in Matunga, Mumbai. The choices are limited, but you get lip-smacking dosas at a song. Once you eat there you can never forget the taste and experience. Eons ago I happened to go to a dosa festival at a five star hotel with some colleagues. They held it in their lawns with over 15-20 live counters - all making dosas, of different kinds (at least 100 plus variants). And you were served in sparkling dishes and cutlery, with wide variety of chutneys and sauces to choose from. Made by chefs in majestic dresses, it was an all you could eat buffet and the atmosphere was nothing less than mesmerising.

And to be frank, the chefs were good at it. Their innovative dosas (there were even sweet/dessert dosas) ‘wow‘ed our senses and imagination! We couldn’t wait to finish the dosa in out plate before we walked to the next counter to sample that variant. In no time it became kind of a pursuit to sample as many variants as we could given only the limitation of our stomach’s capacity. But something else was happening too. After the first couple of dosas we weren’t even awarefully eating the dosa currently in our plates. With most dosas we didn’t even complete them before we took another plate and tried the next. By the end each one of us was boasting to the other of all the varieties he ate/liked. Am sure each one of us also bragged about it with our folks back at home.

But then what next? Would I visit another dosa festival again? No siree, no way! After the above experience I was looking forward the first opportunity to go back to Matunga to my favourite Udipi’s to enjoy my staple dosa, one that has remained unchanged for decades, served in those plain dishes and as modest environs as you can get while still being very hygienic.

What that Udupi dosa does to me is difficult to explain. I can vaguely describe it as a ‘home-coming’ feeling, a ‘soulful experience’. Yes, the level of satisfaction is beyond mere senses. The experience touches the emotion and the spirit too. I can eat them all my life and not get bored. And it’s not just me... talk to any hard-core Mumbaiite.

FM radio is like the Udupi restaurant dosa. It doesn’t provide you the grand choices and bells & whistles of a Tidal or Spotify, but provides a certain sound described well by @prem (incidentally FM tuner is the only analog source I have in my system) and an experience that we’ve grown on, it’s kind of a part of our system. Just the way for those from my generation, Doordarshan was, or Test cricket or an Illustrated Weekly/Mayapuri/DharmYug were. Netflix, IPL and Magzter are all fine... but they are like the five star dosa buffet. They can ‘wow’ you most of the times. But how often do they ‘move’ you?

And this is not just when it comes to the source/content, but for the system as a whole too - the reason behind my signature. An audiophile typically goes through years of pursuing sound that ‘wows’ him, a pursuit that can be termed the hi-fi pursuit. After spending years and lakhs of rupees, one of them comes to the realisation that all the wowing was ephemeral, was never lasting. What he has been missing in the process was that emotional/spiritual connect with the music - something that ‘moves‘ him at a deeper level.

And also comes the conclusion that he didn’t need all the costly equipment for this. Even an ordinary FM radio does it and probably does it better than some of the complex set of technological buffet he has bought into. And then he starts simplifying. Sifting through what’s absolutely essential and what’s merely desirable, he is able to make choices that help him derive long-lasting satisfaction and joy from the system. Something he can steadily engage with - like the Udupi restaurant - without constantly desiring to change/upgrade it. Because he has learnt from his own experience and nothing else can change it - neither the peer pressure from forums, nor the most impressive reviews in audio magazines/websites/YouTube channels.

I went through this transformation over the length of this lockdown period. Recently @firearm describes his own transformation in a thread that’s worth reading. Some of the FMs I know have been through it and it’s a palpably different experience when you interact with them as compared to others. And if you wonder if this state itself is changeable, I don’t feel so. Having come to this realisation, I am unlikely to like any sound unless it moves me the same way - now that I know what I value the most - no matter what the sophistication/price of the system is. I am ok with a system wowing me, but only if it moves me first. In short, I shall value ‘premium’ of an audiophile system only after it has justified its ‘basic’ value to me.

(And to those who’d argue that specifications, measurements, charts, curves, distortion levels et al eventually add up to great sound, I’d say ‘good for you, not for me’. For all I know, there have been singers (even classical) who were pitch perfect and highly skilled with their technical prowess - they could also wow with their taans, but could never ‘move’ the audience with their performance).

Thanks a lot for all the effort and time you put in to writing beautiful and sensible posts.

 

[himadri]

I can empathise with your wanting to listen to music in the background rather than sit in a straightjacket. For that, one needs to position the system to sound balanced throughout the room. Listening to music does not become a chore then

Same view. Vivek, you are doing 2 to 3 hours of listening per day on your FM , so integrating it with the hi-fi and repositioning them to sound nice throughout the room , might be a solution. Best of luck.

 

[Gerry_the_Merry]

My 2 cents. It is enough for me to just gaze at my system. I don't even need to play it to enjoy it. If you add a turntable, DIY, the enjoyment will jump manifold. Listening is well below all these in the hierarchy. The music collection I already have will take many lifetimes to properly enjoy. Plus there are large MP3 collections of live concerts by Indian musicians that I listen to on my Bose SoundTouch. There is so little time, and so many upgrade plans to execute, that it will take several years to exhaust the current ideas. So this conflict of what exactly is the proportion of time I spend listening and fiddling with play lists is far away from my thoughts. But once in a while, I do sit down to do very serious listening, and do only that all day. Those days are also enjoyable.

 

[yugaaa]

I love dosas like almost everyone else. My go to places are select Udupi restaurants, especially in Matunga, Mumbai. The choices are limited, but you get lip-smacking dosas at a song. Once you eat there you can never forget the taste and experience. Eons ago I happened to go to a dosa festival at a five star hotel with some colleagues. They held it in their lawns with over 15-20 live counters - all making dosas, of different kinds (at least 100 plus variants). And you were served in sparkling dishes and cutlery, with wide variety of chutneys and sauces to choose from. Made by chefs in majestic dresses, it was an all you could eat buffet and the atmosphere was nothing less than mesmerising.

And to be frank, the chefs were good at it. Their innovative dosas (there were even sweet/dessert dosas) ‘wow‘ed our senses and imagination! We couldn’t wait to finish the dosa in out plate before we walked to the next counter to sample that variant. In no time it became kind of a pursuit to sample as many variants as we could given only the limitation of our stomach’s capacity. But something else was happening too. After the first couple of dosas we weren’t even awarefully eating the dosa currently in our plates. With most dosas we didn’t even complete them before we took another plate and tried the next. By the end each one of us was boasting to the other of all the varieties he ate/liked. Am sure each one of us also bragged about it with our folks back at home.

But then what next? Would I visit another dosa festival again? No siree, no way! After the above experience I was looking forward the first opportunity to go back to Matunga to my favourite Udipi’s to enjoy my staple dosa, one that has remained unchanged for decades, served in those plain dishes and as modest environs as you can get while still being very hygienic.

What that Udupi dosa does to me is difficult to explain. I can vaguely describe it as a ‘home-coming’ feeling, a ‘soulful experience’. Yes, the level of satisfaction is beyond mere senses. The experience touches the emotion and the spirit too. I can eat them all my life and not get bored. And it’s not just me... talk to any hard-core Mumbaiite.

FM radio is like the Udupi restaurant dosa. It doesn’t provide you the grand choices and bells & whistles of a Tidal or Spotify, but provides a certain sound described well by @prem (incidentally FM tuner is the only analog source I have in my system) and an experience that we’ve grown on, it’s kind of a part of our system. Just the way for those from my generation, Doordarshan was, or Test cricket or an Illustrated Weekly/Mayapuri/DharmYug were. Netflix, IPL and Magzter are all fine... but they are like the five star dosa buffet. They can ‘wow’ you most of the times. But how often do they ‘move’ you?

And this is not just when it comes to the source/content, but for the system as a whole too - the reason behind my signature. An audiophile typically goes through years of pursuing sound that ‘wows’ him, a pursuit that can be termed the hi-fi pursuit. After spending years and lakhs of rupees, one of them comes to the realisation that all the wowing was ephemeral, was never lasting. What he has been missing in the process was that emotional/spiritual connect with the music - something that ‘moves‘ him at a deeper level.

And also comes the conclusion that he didn’t need all the costly equipment for this. Even an ordinary FM radio does it and probably does it better than some of the complex set of technological buffet he has bought into. And then he starts simplifying. Sifting through what’s absolutely essential and what’s merely desirable, he is able to make choices that help him derive long-lasting satisfaction and joy from the system. Something he can steadily engage with - like the Udupi restaurant - without constantly desiring to change/upgrade it. Because he has learnt from his own experience and nothing else can change it - neither the peer pressure from forums, nor the most impressive reviews in audio magazines/websites/YouTube channels.

I went through this transformation over the length of this lockdown period. Recently @firearm describes his own transformation in a thread that’s worth reading. Some of the FMs I know have been through it and it’s a palpably different experience when you interact with them as compared to others. And if you wonder if this state itself is changeable, I don’t feel so. Having come to this realisation, I am unlikely to like any sound unless it moves me the same way - now that I know what I value the most - no matter what the sophistication/price of the system is. I am ok with a system wowing me, but only if it moves me first. In short, I shall value ‘premium’ of an audiophile system only after it has justified its ‘basic’ value to me.

(And to those who’d argue that specifications, measurements, charts, curves, distortion levels et al eventually add up to great sound, I’d say ‘good for you, not for me’. For all I know, there have been singers (even classical) who were pitch perfect and highly skilled with their technical prowess - they could also wow with their taans, but could never ‘move’ the audience with their performance).

TO spare readers from reading such a long post ,let me summarize . A simpleton guy who wants to gets drunk does not care about brands , taste , essence of the drink . All he cares is getting high .

 

[yugaaa]

This is just a lovers tiff post marriage around "Tum Pehle to aise nahin thi" As usual the Hifi will remain as is and Vivek will need to compromise on expectations

...Divorce should be a well thought of decision

Divorce is not a luxury .. Sometimes you want it so bad that , it is the only thing on one's mind .

 

[Deleted member 15865]

TO spare readers from reading such a long post ,let me summarize . A simpleton guy who wants to gets drunk does not care about brands , taste , essence of the drink . All he cares is getting high .

There’s a difference between simple and simplistic and that summarisation just made the dosa soggy, took tanginess out of the chutney and watered down the sambhar! A good thing about HFV is that it still has members who don’t mind taking 3 mins out to read what took someone 15 mins to write because they appreciate nuance and value articulation. Those who don’t or whose reading stamina is limited to breaking news/headlines can spare themselves by skipping the post altogether.

 

[firearm12]

I dont know if its already mentioned but big speakers need to have to be played at a little high volume to shine. So @Vivek Batra please blast off the speakers once in a while when possible. That will also help to getting accustomed to sound.

 

[arunkvivek]

I dont know if its already mentioned but big speakers need to have to be played at a little high volume to shine. So @Vivek Batra please blast off the speakers once in a while when possible. That will also help to getting accustomed to sound.

Forte III can be listened at extremely low volumes. They whisper intimately.

 

[AKT]

Not really. I think @Vivek Batra is playing "hard to get" with the Luxmans/Klipschs.
It'll all settle down. They will soon kiss and make up @arunkvivek

Cheers,
Raghu

Ha Ha Ha!!!
I recollect I was in a similar position a year or so ago. Similar and a lot of helpful suggestions. Friends and acquaintances on this forum would not let you quit and for good reason...

 

[Vivek Batra]

I dont know if its already mentioned but big speakers need to have to be played at a little high volume to shine. So @Vivek Batra please blast off the speakers once in a while when possible. That will also help to getting accustomed to sound.

Even I am not allowed to raise my volume at home, leave alone the speakers

 

[vivek_r]

Dear FMs

Something is running in to my mind so thought of sharing with you all for the best steps forward

For quite sometime now, I am struggling with a a very stong thought of breaking up with Hi Fi. Well I am still very new in to Hi Fi but not music. It all started around mid of 2018 when I felt like upgrading my self from phones/laptop to a good music system and by early 2019 acquiring my first setup. I had some bitter expereinces with that and I learned from them.

For my second attempt, I invested a lot of time, patience, money and took trouble to acquire my dream system. Which comprises of Luxman 590 AX II integrated amplifier, Luxman DA-06 DAC and Klipsch Forte III speakers.

I still remember the days when I use to drool over by looking at the pics of the above listed components (had no means to see these beautiful components in real before you actually buy) and in online reviews. For me these components together make a ultimate system for me, very resolving, musical and life like, which I should be able to enjoy for the rest of my life and for sure can pass on to gen next (my son) without even thinking of upgrading anything.

Inspite of achieving all what I was dieing for in the past, I am not at peace and restless. You may call me old school either becuase the fun and the joy I get from a little radio is not there when I listen to my setup. Its not the the SQ is not there or it doesn't sound great. Its just my mental state at the point of time, not a proper space, not a proper room. Its kinda shame to treat such a great system like that. I almost feel forced to listen to my system for the sake of using it beacuse I have spent so much money/efforts/time and many restless nights before acquiring it, this is truly very miserable thing to do in my view.

I am slowly relaizing few things about my self first, I love music more than "how the music is being reproduced". If I like the music, the singer, the lyrics then thats more than enough for me. Secondly, I am a background listener no doubt in that. I simply do not have the patience to sit in front of the systen and do nothing but just play music, I can't do that. Though it happened for may be once or twice but thats hard for me baring in the company of few drinks . I tried many ways to change my self but I guess that time is gone to bring about adrastic change in my self.

Morover I do not own the current place and this system deserves a far better room and a more serious listener than me. This feeling is there for quite some time now, may be few of you might have figured this out from my earlier posts around such feeling.

I want to say good bye to Hi Fi at this moment, I am not for this this is not for me. I am not saying good bye to music, but listening to music through Hi Fi. My day starts with a good 2 to 3 hours of FM session, that keeps me happy for the day.

About the gear, with utmost pain, if this feeling refuses to go away, I will have to part with my system. So if you see any sale post from me in coming days, that means going back to basics is imminent

I will still be part of HFV, I have made many good friends from here and have learnt many things and still learning. I will try to contribute/help others as much as I could.


Thanks for reading this.

Regards
Vivek

Vivek even I (is this a common Vivek problem) have been through these fits.

After disbanding my bedroom system earlier and selling all the components for a song, now partially due to COVID and a sudden dissatisfaction with my living room as a listening space (and this after buying a Norma IPA140 integrated after audition) I bought a pair of Spendor speakers for my bedroom and used my old equipment . It has not even been audiophile carefully set up.

And I have been listening to hours and hours of music (all my album posts in All that jazz are from my bedroom ). That bedroom is not just an acoustically better room - it is a room where I don’t fuss! No sitting on sweet spot blah blah. I haven’t played my living room system in ages.

So don’t throw all your things out now please. This from a guy who has done this and only lost money now and then (which is okay ).

Perhaps it is one component that is not fitting with your sonic priorities and you need to change that. This time around do it slowly

A good system gives great emotional connect with music - it’s not all about transparency and hearing the bus that passed next to the studio. That is unbeatable.

And if you want to get away, that’s also fine but you may find it difficult to get away permanently if you lurk. This hobby is a bit of a drug. The audio reviews are equivalent of pushers for drugs. We want to get sold something and they oblige. We always want to hear and feel what the other person is writing about eloquently (and yes soon in Mk II the blacks will be blacker).

And I can imagine sitting in Chandigarh things are difficult - it is difficult enough in Bombay.

if you can do what Firearm 12 says without spending (beg some dealer for an audition?), that is still better than throwing the toys out.

Been there, done that. The wheel turns round and round (ok I like Steely Dan a lot )