buy bose or not!!! help!!!!!!!

[mridulgoel]

Hi.
i have a friend in singaopre who could locate AVR and Q-A1030i YamahaRXV 665 is available for 750SGD and Q-A1030i for 700SGD. 1 SGD is approx 33INR.
Difference between 1010i and 1030i is approx 200SGD. I thought I can choose 1030i.
Will there be any issue in connecting 1030i with RXV665..?

hey buddy

as per the rates..
700x33 = 23100 + Freight + Customs...
You will be charged customs as u will be getting more than Rs.25K material...
And in reciever you save more...

I can offer you 5% off on the MRP of Rs.28K in India...
So it will be approx. Rs.26,600 with bill and local warranty...
Sorry i didnt go thru the complete req. of urs, but are u lookin in for Stereo or 5.1 as RXV Yamaha is Reciever, if i am not wrong...
For surrounds 1010i are really good...they are priced @ Rs.11750 MRP...
i think the price u r getting for 1010i is too high..
500x33 = Rs.16500...

 

[mridulgoel]

Go for Denon 1709 or 1909 with Polk audio Lsi. this would be a better choice I would say.

Denon is really good for movies/music. Better than yamaha and onkyo and price wise higher that these ones as well.

Polk are really cook speakers.

yes buddy

i agree with you that Denon is a better choice...as its a balanced system for movie and music combi... but Yamaha plays its role, where the requirement is too good in for movies.. specially the RXV 666 and plus models..

secondly regarding the Polk Audio, they are Head Officed in Bangalore, so y to take goods from Coimbatore just to make sure you get discounts..
and the products that are available on discount are the old models demo products from all over there branches and distributors...

And i will give you a personal tip...
Its never a matter you are a businessman or a Professional, or a Salaried person...
The point is practical to be observed..
Discounts and too much discounts, or offers and too many offers, reduces the brand image if they are done just to make sales...
You never bargain @ any Reliance/Tata/Nike and bla bla stores, then y do you do that for Entertainment...

I am not pointing anyone, bcase if u think i m pointing ProFx, so to tell you i knw, on wt products are the discounts being offered...all out dated products, and demo products, just to liquidate stocks...

but in normal case, the dealers, crib the brands...
When you expect quality be ready to pay a few extra bucks...
and moreover, when u r doin the piracy of music/movies and all, then dont expect the quality to be placed...

Because both piracy of music/movies or of equipments, cuts you down somewhere or the other...

 

[mridulgoel]

I was originally supposed to come to Bangalore for auditioning Q-Acoustics 1010i. This never happened, and I ended up auditioning the Q-Acoustics 1010i a few times in Chennai. I have even helped in the set up at a location (something like a professional studio) that has a Yamaha 663 and Q-A 1010i. It was there that I played around with the crossover settings for the sub that I was mentioning to SaiJayram.

Raghu of Decibel is setting up a full fledged 5.1 system with Q-A1010i, and I will write a review report after I hear the system there in detail. But there is no denying that the Q-As sound very good. And it is a neat package for people who have problems with space and wife acceptance.

Cheers

hey venky

dont frgt to meet me when u r in Bangalore, in your upcoming schedules, and will make sure, tht i meet u whn i m in chennai...
need any details on our products do let me knw..

 

[grubyhalo]

Mridul,
Sorry if I come across rude, but I really couldn't help myself respond to this post:

...secondly regarding the Polk Audio, they are Head Officed in Bangalore, so y to take goods from Coimbatore just to make sure you get discounts...

Provided the piece is new and the dealer is authorized, I do not see the point of not buying a product from a place where it's offered substantially cheaper and buying it from it's head office.

and the products that are available on discount are the old models demo products from all over there branches and distributors...

If someone is pushing a product that's a demo piece without letting the buyer know that, then it would be wrong. Otherwise I really do not see a problem buying a new old-stock item for a much cheaper price. I've not come across a product whose newer version has a dramatic improvement in quality or features...

And i will give you a personal tip...
Its never a matter you are a businessman or a Professional, or a Salaried person...
The point is practical to be observed..
Discounts and too much discounts, or offers and too many offers, reduces the brand image if they are done just to make sales...

I did not understand the practicality nature of your point completely. Anyway, I personally don't think offering discounts on a product affects the brand image, atleast not the rates that you can expect for hi-fi goods. I can quote quite a few products that offer very good discounts and STILL maintain their brand image.

You never bargain @ any Reliance/Tata/Nike and bla bla stores, then y do you do that for Entertainment...

That's because I know that whichever outlet of Reliance/Tata/Nike I go to in India, I would be paying the same price. I generally wouldn't have to worry about one dealer giving me a reasonable price and another trying to fleece me to a fig leaf.

but in normal case, the dealers, crib the brands...
When you expect quality be ready to pay a few extra bucks...

How would it have better quality if I'm buying the same model from a different dealer who's offering me a greater discount, albeit from a different city?

and moreover, when u r doin the piracy of music/movies and all, then dont expect the quality to be placed...

I have the biggest beef against this part of your post. Are you quite certain that everyone who's trying to pick up a piece of equipment cheap is a pirate? And since they are, they shouldn't expect quality? I'm sorry if I understood your statement wrong but this is what it appears to me that you're saying

Because both piracy of music/movies or of equipments, cuts you down somewhere or the other...

Can you explain this part a bit more? Are you suggesting that trying to buy equipment cheaper from a person in a different city akin to 'piracy'? And what exactly do you mean by 'cuts you down somewhere'?

 

[moserw]

You never bargain @ any Reliance/Tata/Nike and bla bla stores, then y do you do that for Entertainment...

That's because I know that whichever outlet of Reliance/Tata/Nike I go to in India, I would be paying the same price. I generally wouldn't have to worry about one dealer giving me a reasonable price and another trying to fleece me to a fig leaf.

Well I don't know about you guys, but I do ask for a discount from Reliance Digital and Tata Croma and do get it too. In fact at both places price is negotiable and they do match what the other distributors/dealers/retailers are offering and also thrown in freebies and then points on the card which actually amounts to more discount than even the local guys can give. Coming to Nike, well all sports goods are terribly overpriced in India so I don't buy them here and instead get them from the U.S. and Europe.

 

[mridulgoel]

Well I don't know about you guys, but I do ask for a discount from Reliance Digital and Tata Croma and do get it too. In fact at both places price is negotiable and they do match what the other distributors/dealers/retailers are offering and also thrown in freebies and then points on the card which actually amounts to more discount than even the local guys can give. Coming to Nike, well all sports goods are terribly overpriced in India so I don't buy them here and instead get them from the U.S. and Europe.

Bro...

I will take your point of Nike...
How many people do you expect have gt contacts abroad, or have frequent travellers visiting them often...

And to tell you, one cant actually blame the companies..
I am not excluding the part that they dont make profit, they do, but they do spend...but even the 40% customs duty and Tax, plays a big role, and over that the custom duty is charged on the net landing amount, that is inclusive of Freight, Insureance, etc, not the exact product amount...So that leads in price rise..

Today, there are 'N' number of brands available in the market tht are from US, UK, etc...
but how many of them are you aware off...??? (You doesnt denote a single person, but mass)

Ok lets take an example of AV industry only, if you do a survey, brands like JBL, Polk, Denon, Bose, Yamaha, are some highly popular brands, because of there long existence, and advertisment/media concerns...
But, those who are in the industry ask them, for them these brands are just the starting brands...then how about all other brands...They dont advertise, so they are not popular, but are providing a quality stuff @ a reasonable price...compared to other advertised stuff...
For ex. Product1 from a Well Known brand sells for Rs.100, where its US base price is Rs.50, on the other end, Product2 from a New Company sells @ Rs.75, where its US base price is Rs.50 only...
And all the existence including showrooms, advertisements, employees, and other promo stuff, doesnt come in for free, they are damn expensive, for ex. a avg Nike showroom, in a posh locality cost not less than 3-4L rental, apart from that are salaries, and other stuff...

So everything comes at a price buddy...

 

[mridulgoel]

Mridul,
Sorry if I come across rude, but I really couldn't help myself respond to this post:



Provided the piece is new and the dealer is authorized, I do not see the point of not buying a product from a place where it's offered substantially cheaper and buying it from it's head office.



If someone is pushing a product that's a demo piece without letting the buyer know that, then it would be wrong. Otherwise I really do not see a problem buying a new old-stock item for a much cheaper price. I've not come across a product whose newer version has a dramatic improvement in quality or features...



I did not understand the practicality nature of your point completely. Anyway, I personally don't think offering discounts on a product affects the brand image, atleast not the rates that you can expect for hi-fi goods. I can quote quite a few products that offer very good discounts and STILL maintain their brand image.



That's because I know that whichever outlet of Reliance/Tata/Nike I go to in India, I would be paying the same price. I generally wouldn't have to worry about one dealer giving me a reasonable price and another trying to fleece me to a fig leaf.



How would it have better quality if I'm buying the same model from a different dealer who's offering me a greater discount, albeit from a different city?



I have the biggest beef against this part of your post. Are you quite certain that everyone who's trying to pick up a piece of equipment cheap is a pirate? And since they are, they shouldn't expect quality? I'm sorry if I understood your statement wrong but this is what it appears to me that you're saying



Can you explain this part a bit more? Are you suggesting that trying to buy equipment cheaper from a person in a different city akin to 'piracy'? And what exactly do you mean by 'cuts you down somewhere'?

bro

i think my points are simple above..
i will request you to kindly go through them again..
u r getting confused because you are mixing those points...

the piracy matter is different, the grey matter is different, the discounting is different..

Just for a correction.. ProFx, coimbatore, is by ProFx themselves not any dealers...

You read it once more, and then if you are not clear.. plz mention tht back to me...
i would be pleased to reply back..

 

[soundofmusic]

The Discount in Pro fx is only for the Profx speakers + Denon Receiver ( basic one ) The discount price is Rs.38000/- . They claim that the MRP of this package is More then Rs.60k , which is unbelievable . The sound is the worst i have heard in a long time.

Mohan.

 

[venkatcr]

hey venky

dont frgt to meet me when u r in Bangalore, in your upcoming schedules, and will make sure, tht i meet u whn i m in chennai... need any details on our products do let me knw..

I think you are confusing me for someone else.

Cheers

 

[anm]

That's because I know that whichever outlet of Reliance/Tata/Nike I go to in India, I would be paying the same price. I generally wouldn't have to worry about one dealer giving me a reasonable price and another trying to fleece me to a fig leaf.

I agree. Pricing of av equipment can vary too much! You can never be sure if you are being taken for a ride when it comes to prices.
And leaders of overpriced stuff are the authorized dealers who sell stuff in India at twice the price of the US. It seems everyone in the US sells for charity, paying part of the cost from their pockets!

 

[grubyhalo]

bro

i think my points are simple above..
i will request you to kindly go through them again..
u r getting confused because you are mixing those points...

the piracy matter is different, the grey matter is different, the discounting is different..

You read it once more, and then if you are not clear.. plz mention tht back to me...
i would be pleased to reply back..

I'm sorry but I didn't quite understand your points that's why I requested clarification, for example, why you were referring to piracy when talking about buying AV gear cheaply. Could you please explain what you meant regarding piracy, grey matter and discounting separately? I could not understand how to differentiate them from your post.

 

[mridulgoel]

I'm sorry but I didn't quite understand your points that's why I requested clarification, for example, why you were referring to piracy when talking about buying AV gear cheaply. Could you please explain what you meant regarding piracy, grey matter and discounting separately? I could not understand how to differentiate them from your post.

Buddy

Reffering Piracy with AV gear meant the mixing of grey stuff with the billed ones...
I dont you are aware of it or not, but this task is the most common among the dealers who sell the product at just 100-200 margin...
Just be practical, if you are running a business, renting a shop, keeping stock, paying salaries, do you think the 100-200 margin will let you survive...???
And these kind of tasks are not done only in grey market but most of it by authorized dealers...
Thats what you must feel different whenever you call a company, and they refer only a couple of them in the area, where there are 5-6 of them...
that is bcause company wants you to take the correct product, not the grey market stuff...
This what i have told you may sound something fisshy...
But, my frnd i m in this line from past 6 yrs...
I import and distribute, 22 World Class brands, and i knw, where and how the product/brand image goes up and down...

Its easy to say when you are a customer, but think from other side as well...

Now the same things comes in Pirated CDs/DVDs...
Thats wt i wrote them one after the other...for which you gt confused...

 

[grubyhalo]

...Buddy
And these kind of tasks are not done only in grey market but most of it by authorized dealers...

I think I kind of get your point. So what you're saying is that some of the so-called 'authorized' dealers get their stuff from the grey market and pass it on to customers for cheap. Now in a case like this, I'm guessing they would give the customer the warranty and service that comes with a 'legal' product as well in-spite of the product being sourced from the grey market, right? If this practise is so prevalent, why don't the brands keep a check on their dealers? I'm guessing this would not be too difficult for them. Also, wouldn't it be a little too much of a stretch to claim that all cheap offers might be grey market products? Also, my thoughts on this phenomenon is that the onus to keep a check on the dealers and ensure the legality of sales should reside solely with the manufacturer and definitely not the consumer. If the consumer is getting the same product cheaper, WITH the warranty and service, it's a bit unfair to expect the consumer to not buy it...

 

[mridulgoel]

I think I kind of get your point. So what you're saying is that some of the so-called 'authorized' dealers get their stuff from the grey market and pass it on to customers for cheap. Now in a case like this, I'm guessing they would give the customer the warranty and service that comes with a 'legal' product as well in-spite of the product being sourced from the grey market, right? If this practise is so prevalent, why don't the brands keep a check on their dealers? I'm guessing this would not be too difficult for them. Also, wouldn't it be a little too much of a stretch to claim that all cheap offers might be grey market products? Also, my thoughts on this phenomenon is that the onus to keep a check on the dealers and ensure the legality of sales should reside solely with the manufacturer and definitely not the consumer. If the consumer is getting the same product cheaper, WITH the warranty and service, it's a bit unfair to expect the consumer to not buy it...

Buddy

There what you are wrong...
If the end customer is happy, then, there is less points for the brand degradation...
What happens in the above said process, the customer in terms of saving tax, and getting more benefit, buy stuff from dealers/grey market...
But, in actual the product is not original, its synthetic...
the motherboard, the ics and a few more part are duplicated...which degrades the performance...and then the customer blames the company...
In this whole process, i blame customer more than a dealer...he is making money, for which he is there in market, and he cares damn about the brand and quality...
But, the customer (terming him stupid n overclever fool) thinks tht they gttcha the best deal possible, and they mark all the things out in this forum, and all over where they can...
And ultimately suffers the brand, and there product...

And the reason, why the stuff is being given to the dealers, is again because after doing the mix n match these kind of dealers are moving the stuff in the market...
And they kind of sell product on there price image, so the customer attracts towards them...and if the company stops giving them the product they will sell some other brand...
Tell me one thing how many of the HT enthusiast visit these kinds of forums or take experts advice...most of them thinks they knw everything...n can bullshit the dealers...

wt do u say now.?

 

[vishanv]

Buddy
the motherboard, the ics and a few more part are duplicated...

mridul, can you tell me what do they do with the original motherboard & ICs which were removed? what is the use of removing these? do they sell these as spares? I have a feeling that Indian market is more matured now that such practices are no longer required to make money.

for the most part I can agree on the pricing of AV equipment but your last post is totally out of sync. I do agree the price in India could be higher because of overheads and customs, tax etc. but certainly no one can rule out the impact of dealer margin on the price.

Dealer's margin is a significant portion of Hi Fi equip price, I would not believe if you say otherwise. some offer different discounts to complete sale; its necessary for a healthy competition and for the benefit of consumer.

its the previlage of the consumer to buy from anyone they want. smart dealers & brands will know how to keep their customers and to add new ones. if price alone determines brand image, Oppo, Hsu research will never compete with the likes of Denon, Velodyne.

I personally have exp of buying some stuff at a price and look at it for half the price on a clearance sale few months later. from then on I have become a full fledged bargain hunter and I'm totally not ashamed of it.

 

[hemantwaghe]

Mridul,
Is this part swapping universal practice?
Cause I keep on checking US & UK audio mags and sometimes discounts in clerance sale are mindboggling!
So today I understand how they can manage it!
Now as a member earlier mentionedthere must be a market for "removed & replaced parts' right??

Of course sometimes I do not understand the markup ... OPPO DVD was available at 3 times US price. Now I was product head ead for DVD in Onida. We used to procure from china - not dissassembled pieces but - CBU- completly built BOX Packed Ready to sell DVD's. Paying all the duties we were managed to sell @ RS 3K...
Now oppo is in different leaugue but i beleive custom duties are the same . and we never used to jack up price 3 times the chinese price!! ( Of course we were in volume game!)

My point is there is good scope for likes of Vijay Sale & Croma for legal buying and manipulating prices!

In process of looking for LCD/Plasma I realised that for the uncomman brands like Hitachi, Sharp etc. HI Fi retailers quotes were too-too high.

WD TV ( Amazon price -100 USD ) was quoted as high as Rs 10 K on lamington road ....

Members your comments please...

 

[mridulgoel]

Mridul,
Is this part swapping universal practice?
Cause I keep on checking US & UK audio mags and sometimes discounts in clerance sale are mindboggling!
So today I understand how they can manage it!
Now as a member earlier mentionedthere must be a market for "removed & replaced parts' right??

Of course sometimes I do not understand the markup ... OPPO DVD was available at 3 times US price. Now I was product head ead for DVD in Onida. We used to procure from china - not dissassembled pieces but - CBU- completly built BOX Packed Ready to sell DVD's. Paying all the duties we were managed to sell @ RS 3K...
Now oppo is in different leaugue but i beleive custom duties are the same . and we never used to jack up price 3 times the chinese price!! ( Of course we were in volume game!)

My point is there is good scope for likes of Vijay Sale & Croma for legal buying and manipulating prices!

In process of looking for LCD/Plasma I realised that for the uncomman brands like Hitachi, Sharp etc. HI Fi retailers quotes were too-too high.

WD TV ( Amazon price -100 USD ) was quoted as high as Rs 10 K on lamington road ....

Members your comments please...

Hemant

Yes one can agree that volume game matters...
But, if you must have observed these are the places who degrade the brand image...
I understand tht as a individual 99% of you will not agree to it, but providing discounts just to make sales is not the correct way to deal with...
When you talk about people like Croma, Reliance, Vijay Sales, Pai, and bla bla blas...Believe me or not they make there working profits including salaries, rent and everything from the corporate sales and in commissioning for high end customers like ministers and all...where they just work in as a middle agent and earn commission...
Now, when these guyz purchase bulk quantities like 100pcs per product, they are liable to get extra discounts from what dealers get, as they make the central purchase for all of there branches...
But, when they reduce the prices to put up a card rate below MRP, then the customer is attracted towards the big area, and tht force the dealers to sell @ the least margin...but again, when dealers reduces the price then these big giants reduce it further below the Dealer Price, just to make sales, and in this process finally wins the big giant as in many cases they dont even avoid selling below there cost...This is a bitter truth...
And that forces dealers to quit the brands...
And now, do you guyz think, that these big giants are good enough to do sales...NO...!!!
All those who are present as the sales guyz, and even there managers, 90% of them are from a place or category who dont even knw, wt they are selling...and in last what material they pick in bulk, makes it difficult for them to sell, and then they try to liquidate in watever way they can...
And this process, leads to demotivating the brand image, in the end consumers mind...
Now just think over and tell me, in all this fight whu ultimately suffers.. its no one else then the Brand & the Product...
I know, many of you wont agree to me, but, guyz whu knw me, i was in Hitachi earlier, supplied a lot of Hitachi to these guyz, and apart from Hitachi gt a lot of cases from some famous and quality brands, taking back the products from these biggies...
Because these biggies, do anything for price, then comes the dealers who mix n match the grey n original product, then comes in the customers, who want the best, but want to pay the price of a local equipment...
Tell me how does a brand grow...???

Now, Hemant your second point of Oppo and Onida...
See OPPO is an american brand...and according to american policies, they offer distributor hardly any margins...and the same margin they provide to there local bulk buyers like amazon and all...
Now, after this as u guyz knw, the freight, customs, taxes, and margins... the product price comes to double of the market value in US...but yes with service and warranty...
But, i dont understand y are u comparing the a material sourced from China local manufacturer, and company in US...
Yes every US company manufacturing in China/HK gets 10% more discounts, then wt they get from company origin location, and as India is next to China, the transportation, goes almost 50% less, and so do the customs and all...
so in all you save 20-25% on the cost, but yes you need to get things in bulk...
OPPO even today has got products that are highly rated...
so they just want to ensure tht until there is constant demand for the products, and the quantity is nt incresed then they are able to market the product properly and earn sufficient margins...

And when you are talking about brands like Hitachi and Sharp, so to tell you buddy, there base price is too much, and even the master distributors play on least margins...and even the retailers or big giants make least money, as for them they have to sell products, they dont care for quality...and they are priced high as none of them is directly sourced from China, they are all sourced from Singapore...

So there are many things which makes a difference, as a end user or a retailer its very difficult to understand these kind of things...

 

[dvdmk]

Hemant

Yes one can agree that volume game matters...
But, if you must have observed these are the places who degrade the brand image...
I understand tht as a individual 99% of you will not agree to it, but providing discounts just to make sales is not the correct way to deal with...
When you talk about people like Croma, Reliance, Vijay Sales, Pai, and bla bla blas...Believe me or not they make there working profits including salaries, rent and everything from the corporate sales and in commissioning for high end customers like ministers and all...where they just work in as a middle agent and earn commission...
Now, when these guyz purchase bulk quantities like 100pcs per product, they are liable to get extra discounts from what dealers get, as they make the central purchase for all of there branches...
But, when they reduce the prices to put up a card rate below MRP, then the customer is attracted towards the big area, and tht force the dealers to sell @ the least margin...but again, when dealers reduces the price then these big giants reduce it further below the Dealer Price, just to make sales, and in this process finally wins the big giant as in many cases they dont even avoid selling below there cost...This is a bitter truth...
And that forces dealers to quit the brands...
And now, do you guyz think, that these big giants are good enough to do sales...NO...!!!
All those who are present as the sales guyz, and even there managers, 90% of them are from a place or category who dont even knw, wt they are selling...and in last what material they pick in bulk, makes it difficult for them to sell, and then they try to liquidate in watever way they can...
And this process, leads to demotivating the brand image, in the end consumers mind...
Now just think over and tell me, in all this fight whu ultimately suffers.. its no one else then the Brand & the Product...
I know, many of you wont agree to me, but, guyz whu knw me, i was in Hitachi earlier, supplied a lot of Hitachi to these guyz, and apart from Hitachi gt a lot of cases from some famous and quality brands, taking back the products from these biggies...
Because these biggies, do anything for price, then comes the dealers who mix n match the grey n original product, then comes in the customers, who want the best, but want to pay the price of a local equipment...
Tell me how does a brand grow...???

Now, Hemant your second point of Oppo and Onida...
See OPPO is an american brand...and according to american policies, they offer distributor hardly any margins...and the same margin they provide to there local bulk buyers like amazon and all...
Now, after this as u guyz knw, the freight, customs, taxes, and margins... the product price comes to double of the market value in US...but yes with service and warranty...
But, i dont understand y are u comparing the a material sourced from China local manufacturer, and company in US...
Yes every US company manufacturing in China/HK gets 10% more discounts, then wt they get from company origin location, and as India is next to China, the transportation, goes almost 50% less, and so do the customs and all...
so in all you save 20-25% on the cost, but yes you need to get things in bulk...
OPPO even today has got products that are highly rated...
so they just want to ensure tht until there is constant demand for the products, and the quantity is nt incresed then they are able to market the product properly and earn sufficient margins...

And when you are talking about brands like Hitachi and Sharp, so to tell you buddy, there base price is too much, and even the master distributors play on least margins...and even the retailers or big giants make least money, as for them they have to sell products, they dont care for quality...and they are priced high as none of them is directly sourced from China, they are all sourced from Singapore...

So there are many things which makes a difference, as a end user or a retailer its very difficult to understand these kind of things...

So Moral of the story is ?????

Should Gullurathi buy Bose or Not?

 

[venkatcr]

So Moral of the story is ????? Should Gullurathi buy Bose or Not?

Leaving aside the arguments of MridulGoel, I think this questions has been answered many times over in this and other threads.

Cheers

 

[mridulgoel]

Leaving aside the arguments of MridulGoel, I think this questions has been answered many times over in this and other threads.

Cheers

questions of BOSE...

hehe...

yes if one wants to buy a system for it has bose written on it..
then i will search one contact and will give it to the person addicted to BOSE...
tht person makes very gud metal signages.. like BOSE and others...
So buy some good speakers, and stick those Metal Stickers on it named BOSE.. and tell your frnds...here.. i gt the unique and latest variety of BOSE...

hehe...