Cartridge advice

[mahiruha]

Sir, I have heard the Classic AND heard turntable rigs that are $10k and multiples of $10k as well for the record. The Classic is right up there in sound quality. It isn't priced in that range, thats just a blessing really.

For the performance I heard from this table, it SHOULD be priced in that range.

Finally, about the cartridge, a friend of mine is lending me an Ortofon Kontrapunkt B to evaluate and purchase if I like it (he moved on to a ZYX Airy 3 for stereo and a Lyra Dorian for mono).

Well Shaizadaji,
if you say so let it be. My experience with Turntables are too limited to have a fair idea about some high end tables. I have some idea of product pricing of financial derivatives and infrastructure projects like ( bridges, highways). The basic principal that is follwed to price those products is to asses the cost that will be incurred to hedge future perceived risks. I guess pricing of HIFI products is slightly different actually it is similar to IPO pricing of stocks that are being introduced in the primary market. Where it is everyting about perceived future performence of a particular company and assigning a valuation to it keeping in the mind it has to be attractive enough to the potential investor given the price of stocks in its peer group. In the case of any HIFI if a particular machine is capable of delivering performence much more as compared to its value then I don't really see any reason why it is not priced higher . We also have to keep in mind an important aspect that maybe the the unit is very good and Harry knows about it but he takes pride in building the unit not too bothered about making too much profit. I have seen businessmen like that. The other issue could be in market for any good the price is formed taking into account weighted average of perceived prices. So in that we don't know where the price would fall say if we take a sample of 1000 people and try and work out the price based on their perception of the product. Please don't be bored just trying to express my opinion.
The cartridge you showed looks very good. Surely let us know how you feel about it. It appears to be quite tall. Do you need to raise the arm quite a bit to put it in place?
Thanks.

 

[shaizada]

Well Shaizadaji,
if you say so let it be. My experience with Turntables are too limited to have a fair idea about some high end tables. I have some idea of product pricing of financial derivatives and infrastructure projects like ( bridges, highways). The basic principal that is follwed to price those products is to asses the cost that will be incurred to hedge future perceived risks. I guess pricing of HIFI products is slightly different actually it is similar to IPO pricing of stocks that are being introduced in the primary market. Where it is everyting about perceived future performence of a particular company and assigning a valuation to it keeping in the mind it has to be attractive enough to the potential investor given the price of stocks in its peer group. In the case of any HIFI if a particular machine is capable of delivering performence much more as compared to its value then I don't really see any reason why it is not priced higher . We also have to keep in mind an important aspect that maybe the the unit is very good and Harry knows about it but he takes pride in building the unit not too bothered about making too much profit. I have seen businessmen like that. The other issue could be in market for any good the price is formed taking into account weighted average of perceived prices. So in that we don't know where the price would fall say if we take a sample of 1000 people and try and work out the price based on their perception of the product. Please don't be bored just trying to express my opinion.
The cartridge you showed looks very good. Surely let us know how you feel about it. It appears to be quite tall. Do you need to raise the arm quite a bit to put it in place?
Thanks.

That was not boring at all. Au contraire, I enjoyed it very much!

These things make perfect sense. The way I see it, the very high end of the turntable market is actually quite saturated and even slowed down somewhat in this economy. This was the perfect time for Harry to introduce this kind of a table priced at this level. The Classic is a completely different way for VPI with the belt driven platters and rim drives along with massive over built tables.

However, I don't know if the actual sound quality of this table was a fluke or not. I don't think Harry must have thought that he should have a certain "lower quality" sound for this particular price point. He just built / designed a great table to the best of his abilities and the sound quality happened to turn out amazing. Material costs can be curbed etc., but the sound should just be the best the VPI can put out and they definitely succeeded in doing just that.

Hope I'm not boring you this time

I'm picking up the Kontrapunkt B from my friend tomorrow for an evaluation and see how it sounds in my system. The 12.5 armwand is ALSO going to be showing up tomorrow so I will probably be setting things up tomorrow evening.

The Ray Samuels Nighthawk will be showing up day after tomorrow along with his balanced portable amp called the Protector. :yahoo:

Needless to say, I'm VERY EXCITED!

 

[mahiruha]

The way I see it, the very high end of the turntable market is actually quite saturated and even slowed down somewhat in this economy. This was the perfect time for Harry to introduce this kind of a table priced at this level. The Classic is a completely different way for VPI with the belt driven platters and rim drives along with massive over built tables.

Hi shaizada,
just came to know about this.
"Due to the increased cost of raw materials and the cost of health care increasing for our employees, VPI will be forced to increase the retail price of the Classic by 10% to $2750.00 as of April 15, 2010. All orders before that date will be at the original price of $2500.00. Yay economy!"
I hope you didn't tell Harry to do this.
Thanks.

 

[afg]

Hi Shaizada

Have you finally found your second cartridge?

The Denon cartridges are very good. I got the cheapest one (Denon 110 HOMC) and it sounds great and is an excellent tracker. I am sure the 103R with the Soundsmith retip will be even better. However, I think the 103R needs a medium to high mass arm to work properly (not sure of this though - I'm not an expert). What is the mass of your JMW arm?

 

[shaizada]

Hi shaizada,
just came to know about this.
"Due to the increased cost of raw materials and the cost of health care increasing for our employees, VPI will be forced to increase the retail price of the Classic by 10% to $2750.00 as of April 15, 2010. All orders before that date will be at the original price of $2500.00. Yay economy!"
I hope you didn't tell Harry to do this.
Thanks.

Yup!! Harry is my langotiya yaar. I told him that mahiruha is looking to buy the Classic Table, so you better make some money on it while you can!

Looks like my secret is out!

Hi Shaizada

Have you finally found your second cartridge?

The Denon cartridges are very good. I got the cheapest one (Denon 110 HOMC) and it sounds great and is an excellent tracker. I am sure the 103R with the Soundsmith retip will be even better. However, I think the 103R needs a medium to high mass arm to work properly (not sure of this though - I'm not an expert). What is the mass of your JMW arm?

Hi buddy,

Actually I did get a second cartridge finally. It is the Ortofon Kontrapunkt B. Makes you fall in love with vinyl all over again. Also, the JMW 12.5 has an effective mass of 11.2g.

The Denon 103R has a compliance of 5 x 10-6 cm/dyne. I'm going to actually need a 5g headshell weight to use this cartridge and get the resonant frequency to 11hz. Doable, but I'd rather use a higher compliance cart like I already am

 

[shaizada]

shaizada :

what's your take on the VDH Grasshopper IV GLA ?

I haven't heard that particular cartridge so I don't really have an opinion on it

However, the that cart will match easily with the 9g effective weight of the Clearaudio Satisfy arm so Malvai will be fine. VDH carts are all very highly regarded. I've only heard the Colibri and that was magical. I'm sure the Grasshopper will hop it's way to his heart knowing that it is a mid to upper range cart in the VDH lineup.

It will match up with the Nighthawk perfectly as the GLA version has a recommended loading of 500 ohms or higher. He can try 500ohms and 1k ohms. Then he can "tune" the sound with the gain of the amp and see where the sound gels with his listening taste.

One thing is for sure, he's moving up the chain of sonic analog bliss.

Arup, you ever getting a table again buddy? You been there done that, but things have changed in the analog world. The pressings are getting quite amazing and the mastering techniques have REALLY improved so much.

Only part that sucks is the time, investment and effort involved with records and their playback. But against the pleasure, this should be a hurdle an audio lover should face yeah?