Compression driver / Super Tweeter ?

[rajan-]

.

I am starting to think bout an addition to my Horns. to have more flexibility and dynamic capability available when the mood demands it.

I love the single driver (tang band) in the horns for what it provides, but hey, why not ?

here are the pictures: https://www.hifivision.com/threads/full-range-horn-system-build.86108/page-2

I have a pair of Viren Bakhshi special Teak milled horns that I have used before in an earlier system, that is sitting aside, and I know how it sounds with an eminence compression driver. no exp with any other compression drivers..

never used a super tweeter before.

anyone got experience matching a horn/compression driver Or super tweeter (ideally to a single driver horn speaker) ?

 

[drlowmu]

I am not a speaker designer, nor am I familiar with all the speaker design techniques. But I have considerable low and high efficiency listening experience, dating back for 77 years.

In the last 7 years, since running a ALTEC VOTT A7-8 system, and developing DIY amps designed for maximum dynamic rendering, I seek to comment :

With great electronics and wiring, I LOVE what a good compression driver / horn / amp combination can do !!!

A non-horn loaded conventional driver can NOT " keep up ", with a good compression driver's speed and music projection into one's listening room. This listening experience amazes me, especially when now using my latest ( since 2019 ) amp designs.

I have three suggestions. It is hard to always tell from a video, but I sense that Yogibear's added DIY Front Loaded Horns, ( for his open baffle speakers, ) adds a delivery speed, lessened distortion, and improved coupling of the drivers - to the room. This was not sensed by me, before he added the DIY curved wooden front horns. BUT : Ask him please to confirm what actually is his " in the flesh " listening experience. If positive, I would COPY his approach and add it to your open baffles.

Listen to that first big change for awhile, with your reference recordings, to get to know what the new Front Horn Loading does for your in-the-room listening experience. If positive, retain it !!!

For a second change, I would experimentally add your compression tweeters and horns, to your speakers. Allow the existing full ranger to play full range.

Live with that, experiment and evaluate it. Do not be afraid to have the added compression driver and it's horn frequency- OVERLAP the larger existing full range driver. Experiment freely, and evaluate it.

Third,, I would highly recommend making up some speaker-to-amp wiring, such as I have outlined on HFV, and what Hari Iyer currently uses. NO - touch of the two polarities, amp to drivers, to keep the best highs.

There is no replacement for you experimenting, and you determining what sounds best to you. Good luck. Have FUN.

Jeff

 

[grindstone]

Long ago, I spent time with ribbons & 4-6" widerangers, but never an 8 and a compression driver on a larger horn with one. What I know is that the 1772 sounded good by itself and showcased what single drivers that size can do (and not do). A lot of people succeeded adding (even rear or up-firing) "supertweeters" for ambience or air and that works w/o destroying what the wideranger does. That's the danger/slippery-slope IMO--that it becomes something else (or needs to). I'm not saying don't try--if you have the stuff, you should do it, it's just might be some work to blend it.

It's not only frequency and patterns, but it's the presentation size itself--making that "work". If you said an 8" *woofer* and a larger horn--sure, no-problem. If you said a little bullet supertweeter and the 8" wideranger, ditto--because you can roll it in really high (and especially because you can get it closer). Even that takes away from the coherence you get with the 8 alone (but it adds what the 8 cannot do alone). Tradeoffs. With the backhorn and a sub, it makes sense to me that you'd seek to add top. I think it matters what throat/horn combo (specifically sizes) whether this works for you or not. It should keep-up just fine and add some of what might be missing on top, to be sure--the question is what price it exacts from the coherence trying to blend it right. Horns rolloff top and bottom, bigger drivers and bigger horns lose top earlier, as a rule. The wrong driver on the wrong horn will roll-off earlier than you need the help at so more filtering will need to happen (not just padding). Compression drivers aren't remotely flat by themselves and what EQ they need depends on what horn they're in. The more filtering that happens, IMO, the less of the wideranger's coherence gifts are preserved. Mostly, it depends on what you're trying to get done and your own prefs and suppliers.

You sound as though the Eminence driver failed to satisfy but the concept held enough promise to revisit (to read too much into it)? There is a lot to like about using a wideranger for a (large) middle and just adding top and bottom support. I very much like that approach, too, but it's personal taste.

Knowing what heroics people from Oz sometimes undergo for audio parts, hesitantly I will say that I really like Radian 475's in a 1" if those are doable. For me, titanium is out, but they are more economical if you like them. Pretty-much everybody is still choosing b&c de250's too, as another non-Ti driver. But see--this is how fullrangers go--we love them in a backhorn and want just a little more fullrange so we add to one end. Then, we notice the other end and add there--until finally it's a different thing It's a really good thing, but it also loses a little of what makes them magical all by themselves. If you hear great (and didn't already have gorgeous horns) and just want tip-top "air", I'd get an AMT or a Fountek or something ribbon-ey because I know that wont poo-poo what the 8" does. Those play higher than you'll get out of a 1" compression driver on a horn. If you're okay with 18 or maybe 19kHz, your horns will do "live" like the ribbons can't--and sound bigger. Whether that mates as well as a little bullet crammed-in close is not something I know. Please keep us posted.

 

[rajan-]

I am not a speaker designer, nor am I familiar with all the speaker design techniques. But I have considerable low and high efficiency listening experience, dating back for 77 years.

In the last 7 years, since running a ALTEC VOTT A7-8 system, and developing DIY amps designed for maximum dynamic rendering, I seek to comment :

With great electronics and wiring, I LOVE what a good compression driver / horn / amp combination can do !!!

A non-horn loaded conventional driver can NOT " keep up ", with a good compression driver's speed and music projection into one's listening room. This listening experience amazes me, especially when now using my latest ( since 2019 ) amp designs.

I have three suggestions. It is hard to always tell from a video, but I sense that Yogibear's added DIY Front Loaded Horns, ( for his open baffle speakers, ) adds a delivery speed, lessened distortion, and improved coupling of the drivers - to the room. This was not sensed by me, before he added the DIY curved wooden front horns. BUT : Ask him please to confirm what actually is his " in the flesh " listening experience. If positive, I would COPY his approach and add it to your open baffles.

Listen to that first big change for awhile, with your reference recordings, to get to know what the new Front Horn Loading does for your in-the-room listening experience. If positive, retain it !!!

For a second change, I would experimentally add your compression tweeters and horns, to your speakers. Allow the existing full ranger to play full range.

Live with that, experiment and evaluate it. Do not be afraid to have the added compression driver and it's horn frequency- OVERLAP the larger existing full range driver. Experiment freely, and evaluate it.

Third,, I would highly recommend making up some speaker-to-amp wiring, such as I have outlined on HFV, and what Hari Iyer currently uses. NO - touch of the two polarities, amp to drivers, to keep the best highs.



Jeff

Except , I do not have open baffles to try what Yogi did. I have rear horns with Wide bander.

I get what you are saying abt compression drivers. and have some personnel experience with it.

my prior setup, in Bangalore had this setup

this was a 15 Inch eminence driver on a rear horn (much simpler than one I have now) with a 1 inch eminence compression driver rocking that LeCleach Horn.

 

[arj]

Whats the upper range of your speakers?
Supertweeters can add an experience of whats called " Air " or Atmosphere to the music due to wwhat the cranial bones perceive frequencies above 15khz or so even if ears cannot hear them.

Its a hit and a miss depending on the music content as these need to be setup at a precise location wrt the tweeter location to retain the timing/coherence and also needs to match the sensitivity so that the volume changes in accordance to the amplifier hence need to be pretty careful in selection.

I personally dont prefer them whenever I have heard them as they are a hit or miss as a subwoofer IMHO will add a far better impact in terms of sound.

 

[rajan-]

Long ago, I spent time with ribbons & 4-6" widerangers, but never an 8 and a compression driver on a larger horn with one. What I know is that the 1772 sounded good by itself and showcased what single drivers that size can do (and not do). A lot of people succeeded adding (even rear or up-firing) "supertweeters" for ambience or air and that works w/o destroying what the wideranger does. That's the danger/slippery-slope IMO--that it becomes something else (or needs to). I'm not saying don't try--if you have the stuff, you should do it, it's just might be some work to blend it.

It's not only frequency and patterns, but it's the presentation size itself--making that "work". If you said an 8" *woofer* and a larger horn--sure, no-problem. If you said a little bullet supertweeter and the 8" wideranger, ditto--because you can roll it in really high (and especially because you can get it closer). Even that takes away from the coherence you get with the 8 alone (but it adds what the 8 cannot do alone). Tradeoffs. With the backhorn and a sub, it makes sense to me that you'd seek to add top. I think it matters what throat/horn combo (specifically sizes) whether this works for you or not. It should keep-up just fine and add some of what might be missing on top, to be sure--the question is what price it exacts from the coherence trying to blend it right. Horns rolloff top and bottom, bigger drivers and bigger horns lose top earlier, as a rule. The wrong driver on the wrong horn will roll-off earlier than you need the help at so more filtering will need to happen (not just padding). Compression drivers aren't remotely flat by themselves and what EQ they need depends on what horn they're in. The more filtering that happens, IMO, the less of the wideranger's coherence gifts are preserved. Mostly, it depends on what you're trying to get done and your own prefs and suppliers.

You sound as though the Eminence driver failed to satisfy but the concept held enough promise to revisit (to read too much into it)? There is a lot to like about using a wideranger for a (large) middle and just adding top and bottom support. I very much like that approach, too, but it's personal taste.

Knowing what heroics people from Oz sometimes undergo for audio parts, hesitantly I will say that I really like Radian 475's in a 1" if those are doable. For me, titanium is out, but they are more economical if you like them. Pretty-much everybody is still choosing b&c de250's too, as another non-Ti driver. But see--this is how fullrangers go--we love them in a backhorn and want just a little more fullrange so we add to one end. Then, we notice the other end and add there--until finally it's a different thing It's a really good thing, but it also loses a little of what makes them magical all by themselves. If you hear great (and didn't already have gorgeous horns) and just want tip-top "air", I'd get an AMT or a Fountek or something ribbon-ey because I know that wont poo-poo what the 8" does. Those play higher than you'll get out of a 1" compression driver on a horn. If you're okay with 18 or maybe 19kHz, your horns will do "live" like the ribbons can't--and sound bigger. Whether that mates as well as a little bullet crammed-in close is not something I know. Please keep us posted.

Its not like Eminence compression driver was not good or anything like that. my earlier system was a matched pair or Eminence Compression driver augmenting an Eminence 15inch Woofer in a simple rear horn

2 way speaker build, with Horns..

am not an audiophile. I am a music and audio enthusiast no, I dont fancy exotic audio and power cables I havent measured anything yet, which mean I must be a subjectivist.!!! but am I ? after reading the below, some clarity on the true definitions were made easier. I think I must...

www.hifivision.com

this Adventure was a follower to that build , after I moved the country, but I carried the Wood LeCleach Horns with me.

I wanted more speed (compared to the 15 Inch) and less box size, so opted for a more complicated and elaborate Wood horn to suit a 8 Widebander (plus I had the luxury of Covid lockdown) .

"But see--this is how fullrangers go--we love them in a backhorn and want just a little more fullrange so we add to one end. Then, we notice the other end and add there--until finally it's a different thing "

Bang on... I rest my case...

The tang Band is very very good, but having tasted the liveliness of a compression driver system earlier, I will find a way to integrate it on this somehow. and have a switch to activate / disable as needed. That way I get to keep the delicate nature of fullranger alone if needed or add the compression driver to a rock performance.

do you have the radians in berrilium or auminium ? Big price difference ... 821 Vs 270 each.. keen to hear your observations.

till now I was looking at Beyma or Faital Pro models

 

[drlowmu]

Its not like Eminence compression driver was not good or anything like that. my earlier system was a matched pair or Eminence Compression driver augmenting an Eminence 15inch Woofer in a simple rear horn

2 way speaker build, with Horns..

am not an audiophile. I am a music and audio enthusiast no, I dont fancy exotic audio and power cables I havent measured anything yet, which mean I must be a subjectivist.!!! but am I ? after reading the below, some clarity on the true definitions were made easier. I think I must...

www.hifivision.com

this Adventure was a follower to that build , after I moved the country, but I carried the Wood LeCleach Horns with me.

I wanted more speed (compared to the 15 Inch) and less box size, so opted for a more complicated and elaborate Wood horn to suit a 8 Widebander (plus I had the luxury of Covid lockdown) .

"But see--this is how fullrangers go--we love them in a backhorn and want just a little more fullrange so we add to one end. Then, we notice the other end and add there--until finally it's a different thing "

Bang on... I rest my case...

The tang Band is very very good, but having tasted the liveliness of a compression driver system earlier, I will find a way to integrate it on this somehow. and have a switch to activate / disable as needed. That way I get to keep the delicate nature of fullranger alone if needed or add the compression driver to a rock performance.

do you have the radians in berrilium or auminium ? Big price difference ... 821 Vs 270 each.. keen to hear your observations.

till now I was looking at Beyma or Faital Pro models

I find that arj is correct in what he says. The alignment between a woofer and the compression driver's voice coils is a requirement for good performance. This excludes a speaker where the lower driver is in the plane of the front of the enclosure. We want the lower driver ( a 15 inch please as the woofer ) in a simple two way, to be recessed from the front of the enclosure, so as allow for alignment of both driver's voice coils.

I find that the simple classic ALTEC VOTT bass enclosure fits the requirement, from about 1945, some 70 plus years ago. Here is my modest A7-8 set up. Drivers are 515B and 802D ALTEC., It was an industry-approved movie theatre standard .......when introduced.




For audiphile / in-home-use, 90% of STOCK fiberglass internal padding must be removed !!

The remainder repositioned carefully by ear, to eliminate a stock enclosure's unwanted and horrible-sounding coloration.

Basic design is correct. However, a few small optimizations are absolutely required,. I love a front firing / front horn loaded 15 inch, and what that does.

Addictive and FUN.

Jeff

 

[mbhangui]

I find that arj is correct in what he says. The alignment between a woofer and the compression driver's voice coils is a requirement for good performance. This excludes a speaker where the lower driver is in the plane of the front of the enclosure. We want the lower driver ( a 15 inch please as the woofer ) in a simple two way, to be recessed from the front of the enclosure, so as allow for alignment of both driver's voice coils.

I find that the simple classic ALTEC VOTT bass enclosure fits the requirement, from about 1945, some 70 plus years ago. Here is my modest A7-8 set up. Drivers are 515B and 802D ALTEC., It was an industry-approved movie theatre standard .......when introduced.


View attachment 70012

For audiphile / in-home-use, 90% of STOCK fiberglass internal padding must be removed !!

The remainder repositioned carefully by ear, to eliminate a stock enclosure's unwanted and horrible-sounding coloration.

Basic design is correct. However, a few small optimizations are absolutely required,. I love a front firing / front horn loaded 15 inch, and what that does.

Addictive and FUN.

Jeff

I see the horn tilted downwards. There must be a reason for this tilt. What does this tilt achieve and how much should it be titled downwards?

 

[grindstone]

this Adventure was a follower to that build , after I moved the country, but I carried the Wood LeCleach Horns with me.

Thank you, Rajan. I am still a HFV "noob" and really enjoyed that link. Now I know we have some common experiences in sounds and similarities in goals & tastes.

I wanted more speed (compared to the 15 Inch) and less box size, so opted for a more complicated and elaborate Wood horn to suit a 8 Widebander (plus I had the luxury of Covid lockdown) .

I get that.

The tang Band is very very good, but having tasted the liveliness of a compression driver system earlier, I will find a way to integrate it on this somehow. and have a switch to activate / disable as needed. That way I get to keep the delicate nature of fullranger alone if needed or add the compression driver to a rock performance.

Good switch idea (I'll name my switch after you when I steal it after you work out all the hard bits).

do you have the radians in berrilium or auminium ? Big price difference ... 821 Vs 270 each.. keen to hear your observations.

Never heard the Be and got mine (?) 11 years ago because they played high and a guy I trusted liked them with his OB then. Immediately they solved my problems of not enough highs from previous comp driver and fixed Ti harshness I am sensitive to. They are delicate-enough and they should see me out. This instant, they are on my floor awaiting the Next Great Idea for testing something else but with luck will have signal again in the next couple weeks. Good drivers.

till now I was looking at Beyma or Faital Pro models

Easy to find wide ranges of opinions and local availability wins. My one caution is that I've learned a lot of compression driver users do not have the same notions of subtlety (like the fullrange people do). If you are still researching, here is one driver thread with too much to read:

Best budget compression driver May 2020? Suggestions, please.

Best budget (400Eur/pc max) compression driver May 2020? Suggestions, please. There are certainly some new models available. My budget is 400 Eur/piece maximum. Currently I have a pair of Beyma CP385Nds and BC DE500s. I really like the integrated driver of Beyma 12XA30. I would like to have...

www.diyaudio.com

Really interested in how this goes if you feel like posting updates. Might be worth a post to the fullrange subforum, too--to see where others crossed horns to 1808's or 1772's etc.

 

[drlowmu]

I see the horn tilted downwards. There must be a reason for this tilt. What does this tilt achieve and how much should it be titled downwards?

In a movie theatre ( huge space to cover ) the stock VOTT horn mouth is vertical. In my small room ( maybe 12 feet by 15.5 feet ) I sit close to speakers, so I intuitively angled the top horn so it converged at the seated position on a sofa. The horizontal surface, which my horn / compression driver is placed upon .... is a full 46 inches off the floor !!

All I can suggest is " try it out and listen ".

As I recall, you use an ESL top end. It has been several decades since I have went though my ESL stage. ( KLH 9 - one and two pairs, QUAD ESL 57s briefly, and Infinity Servo Static 1s /1As ).

My own compression driver / horn combo ( ALTEC 802D on a 811 horn ) seems to couple to a listening room "tightly, and with a more forceful projection " , than other driver types. Properly set up, it is possible to achieve a realistic and ultra-high dynamically shaded resolution, ( ie : dynamic resolution ) more-so than all prior amps and speakers I have personally owned.

The latest types of SE amps we build are designed in many ways for maximum dynamic resolution ( ever since 7-2019 ) VS: all amps built prior. Alarmingly so !! Finally, ..... the icing on the cake - the 12+12+14 AWG Mil Spec ( m22759/11 ) DIY speaker lead configuration wideband - couples these newer DC SE amp amplifiers to a ALTEC VOTT speaker - very well.

This tweeter horn aiming simply seems to be intuitively OK. YMMV. Easy to try . Your result, with a different system, may easily differ totally VS mine.

Jeff

 

[rajan-]

Never heard the Be and got mine (?) 11 years ago because they played high and a guy I trusted liked them with his OB then. Immediately they solved my problems of not enough highs from previous comp driver and fixed Ti harshness I am sensitive to. They are delicate-enough and they should see me out. This instant, they are on my floor awaiting the Next Great Idea for testing something else but with luck will have signal again in the next couple weeks. Good drivers.

what kind of Horn do you use for the Radians ?

 

[grindstone]

Econowave CD (constant directivity) horns from back then if you know those. One flavor is a (then $11) JBL pro part and the other is a larger clone of a QSC pro horn. I'd send you a pair if you were a couple oceans closer. I can take pics or get numbers if you care, but the CD horn world has moved a lot since. People are 3-D printing better horns than mine these days (and yours are infinitely prettier).

 

[rajan-]

Its a hit and a miss depending on the music content as these need to be setup at a precise location wrt the tweeter location to retain the timing/coherence and also needs to match the sensitivity so that the volume changes in accordance to the amplifier hence need to be pretty careful in selection.

I personally dont prefer them whenever I have heard them as they are a hit or miss as a subwoofer IMHO will add a far better impact in terms of sound.

As I got a good deal on a Sub, I got to try that first before getting the Compression drivers...

All I could do after connecting the sub (I am using high level connections) is to just sit back and listen, till very late at night... took the performance of the horns to another level.

Love it....

 

[Hari Iyer]

I have seen most CD+ horns are interfaced with a 15"or above woofer nd always wonder how the both kept pace with timing. The woofer cone would be slow to respond compared to the CD. Time alignment would not help as it's more of a speed issue rather than a distance issue between voice coil centers.

I myself was interested in CD+ horn combo and have received a JBL D220ti CD. I have ordered a Dayton H08RW horn which has a low limit of 2200 Hz . But i am more worried about HF rolloff than low limit. I will be using the CD in a 3-way configuration as I have my field coil going flat till 3 kHz. I prefer this configuration over a single 15" woofer+ CD horn as there are less timing issues. Also my 12" cleavland audio Alnico woofer can keep pace with the CD speed as they are mounted on a OB loading. Also my subwoofer is an H-frame type. All drivers are very low on compliance and hence cone motion won't have much timing issues imo with out of phase movements The current Russian fullrange driver 10 gdsh-1-4 is a high compliance driver which hasa cone movement not much in sync with the rest of the drivers. This imo could cause phase errors and cannot be corrected by driver physical alignment as problem is of speed.

 

[rajan-]

I have seen most CD+ horns are interfaced with a 15"or above woofer nd always wonder how the both kept pace with timing. The woofer cone would be slow to respond compared to the CD. Time alignment would not help as it's more of a speed issue rather than a distance issue between voice coil centers.

among the space restrictions of my house, this was also a reason for me to go for a 8 inch full ranger in the Horn. Speed / attack...

just got lucky I guess, it turned out to be good for my taste. more importantly, wife agrees as well.



I already used 15 inch woofer/CD combo before, but again, they were a good pro brand (eminence) , and the exact combo is used by many DIY enthusiasts around the world, as well as in Klipsch Copies (eg: cornscala type) . Those exact eminence drivers are used by Viren Bakshi in his Lyrita Horn Combos.

what I can tell you is that it works... may be because of the "Live" feel it brings with it.

is it better than something else? I dont know. I dont build / change / demo too many systems. Its no disrespect for anyone or any other system types.. I just happen to like the horn sound.

My 15inch horns are sitting in Bangalore. used with a commercial rectangular plastic horn. It doesn't come close to the LeCleach Horn. Dont know what it is. its not same.

your mileage may vary with Dayton Waveguide.
they claim to overcome the shortcomings of "traditional" horns. atleast its not a high risk experiment from investment perspective.

it will be good to hear your feedback

 

[Hari Iyer]

among the space restrictions of my house, this was also a reason for me to go for a 8 inch full ranger in the Horn. Speed / attack...

just got lucky I guess, it turned out to be good for my taste. more importantly, wife agrees as well.



I already used 15 inch woofer/CD combo before, but again, they were a good pro brand (eminence) , and the exact combo is used by many DIY enthusiasts around the world, as well as in Klipsch Copies (eg: cornscala type) . Those exact eminence drivers are used by Viren Bakshi in his Lyrita Horn Combos.

what I can tell you is that it works... may be because of the "Live" feel it brings with it.

is it better than something else? I dont know. I dont build / change / demo too many systems. Its no disrespect for anyone or any other system types.. I just happen to like the horn sound.

My 15inch horns are sitting in Bangalore. used with a commercial rectangular plastic horn. It doesn't come close to the LeCleach Horn. Dont know what it is. its not same.

your mileage may vary with Dayton Waveguide.
they claim to overcome the shortcomings of "traditional" horns. atleast its not a high risk experiment from investment perspective.

it will be good to hear your feedback

The only reason i considered the Dayton 8" round horn was it can fit in the same place of my Russian fullranger and I won't need baffle modifications. Hope I am lucky with sonic benefits too

 

[drlowmu]

I have seen most CD+ horns are interfaced with a 15"or above woofer nd always wonder how the both kept pace with timing. The woofer cone would be slow to respond compared to the CD. Time alignment would not help as it's more of a speed issue rather than a distance issue between voice coil centers.

I myself was interested in CD+ horn combo and have received a JBL D220ti CD. I have ordered a Dayton H08RW horn which has a low limit of 2200 Hz . But i am more worried about HF rolloff than low limit. I will be using the CD in a 3-way configuration as I have my field coil going flat till 3 kHz. I prefer this configuration over a single 15" woofer+ CD horn as there are less timing issues. Also my 12" cleavland audio Alnico woofer can keep pace with the CD speed as they are mounted on a OB loading. Also my subwoofer is an H-frame type. All drivers are very low on compliance and hence cone motion won't have much timing issues imo with out of phase movements The current Russian fullrange driver 10 gdsh-1-4 is a high compliance driver which hasa cone movement not much in sync with the rest of the drivers. This imo could cause phase errors and cannot be corrected by driver physical alignment as problem is of speed.

Hari,

Regarding speed of a 15 incher: with an ALTEC VOTT A7- 8's enclosure ( 825 model number ) the 15 inch is partially FRONT horn loaded. and also directly radiating into one's listening room. This produces a good result, subjectively better than any simple flat baffle mounting, or rear horn loading.


Jeff

 

[drlowmu]

Except , I do not have open baffles to try what Yogi did. I have rear horns with Wide bander.

I get what you are saying abt compression drivers. and have some personnel experience with it.

my prior setup, in Bangalore had this setup

this was a 15 Inch eminence driver on a rear horn (much simpler than one I have now) with a 1 inch eminence compression driver rocking that LeCleach Horn.

The problem with your Banglaore speaker set-up shown in photo in Post #4. The voice coils of the two drivers are no wheres near time aligned. ( See Post #7's photo, of ALTEC's stock time-aligned two way 825 enclosure, world famous from 1945 on ).

The second problem is a front-horn-loaded 15 inch woofer outperforms any rear-loaded horn on a 15 inch.

It is very very hard to equal any WELL set up A7-8 in a smaller residential space such as found in India, is my experience and personal subjective opinion.

Jeff

 

[Hari Iyer]

The problem with your Banglaore speaker set-up shown in photo in Post #4. The voice coils of the two drivers are no wheres near time aligned. ( See Post #7's photo, of ALTEC's stock time-aligned two way 825 enclosure, world famous from 1945 on ).

The second problem is a front-horn-loaded 15 inch woofer outperforms any rear-loaded horn on a 15 inch.

It is very very hard to equal any WELL set up A7-8 in a smaller residential space such as found in India, is my experience and personal subjective opinion.

Jeff

Imo, centring of the voice coil of woofer and CD does not help much for time alignment as much as compliance of the cone + suspension and the box loading. I have found speed of all BR loading enclosure slower than a OB + H-frame combo. Sealed enclosure can have better pace than a BR. If using a CD it's good to have a low compliance woofer which calls for a OB loading. A BR loading will require a high compliance woofer.

 

[rajan-]

The problem with your Banglaore speaker set-up shown in photo in Post #4. The voice coils of the two drivers are no wheres near time aligned. ( See Post #7's photo, of ALTEC's stock time-aligned two way 825 enclosure, world famous from 1945 on ).

The second problem is a front-horn-loaded 15 inch woofer outperforms any rear-loaded horn on a 15 inch.

It is very very hard to equal any WELL set up A7-8 in a smaller residential space such as found in India, is my experience and personal subjective opinion.

Jeff

excellent observations on positioning..

the CD and horn combo on the top of the wooden cabinet was not fixed, and was made movable. I had a preferred position marked onto it for listening.
also subsequent to that picture, additional height was added to the top horn, to completely clear the bottom wooden cabinet.

so yes, I experimented with basic time alignment as much as possible without resorting to any DSP.


Now, abt a A7-8 setup, I havn't had the luck to experience them in a home environment. So at the risk of sounding condescending, here is my take on it.

what I have observed is that the bass from any baffle mounted driver takes advantage of the strong reflections from room boundaries so that bass is presented well in most sitting positions in the room, and provides overall perception of a fuller bass.

where as bass from a front horn is much more directional.
Now it will not be much of a problem given there is ample room size to take advantage of the front horn in a room with proper sitting arrangements to suit.


so about the performance advantages... , horses for the courses.