keith_correa
Well-Known Member
That's why sweeping statements like compression is bad, is bad and so are statements like old recordings are better.
Difference???? Does this have a unit?
Compression in audio recording - My thoughts
- Thread starter Hari Iyer
- Start date
DR is measured in dB.That's why sweeping statements like compression is bad, is bad and so are statements like old recordings are better.
Difference???? Does this have a unit?
Crest Factor DR - it compares the actual peak to the average volume level of the music. And yes I know it is not a true dynamic range indicator (I also use R128 DR). But I use and refer to it because it is used by the Dynamic Range Database.
Not in the same way that it is being used now in the digital era. They just didn't have the computer hardware and software to mess with the signal as much as sound engineers do today.
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Not when they are backed up by facts. Look up the Dynamic Range Database.
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keith_correa
Well-Known Member
I don't know if that was a good thing or bad.
I don't see any facts in that page pertinent to "compression is bad" and "old recordings are better" which is what you responded to when you linked to that page?
There are facts there all right but like I said, nothing pertinent.
Punch in any album of your choice and artist and see for yourself.
In recent years (post 2000) DR is completely thrown out the window.
Here is the listing for Michael Jackson's "Bad" as an example.
All releases from the 80s are in the 12 - 14 range. Releases post 2000 are in the DR 8 range.
In comparison:
Ariana Grande's "Thank U. Next" is DR6
Charlie Puth's "Nine Track Mind" is DR6
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Nikhil sir, the Billie Jean song is one of the best recorded songs of all times. In the initial crescendo, there is a prominent beat after the other interspersed by a continuous bass guitar note.
The timbre and the position of the two beats keep varying in a subtle manner. One beat covers a wider bandwidth while the other is a little more heavier and the position of the beats is one above the other and a little behind each other as well.
I have around 7 or 8 recordings of it, some mastered versions and some raw versions. I have also heard it in tape and LP.
With mastered versions the differences are not perceptible and both the beats sound pretty similar except for the added treble.
The depth, tonal difference and timber differences are more perceptible in the tape, vinyl and the CD rip. The vinly has a bit more body while the CD has better layering. The tape is is a little less dynamic in character.
The mastered versions including one I have from HDTracks which is a DSD sound flat.
keith_correa
Well-Known Member
Nit picking, but: almost all recordings are "mastered" - I think you mean "re-mastered"For an example of a truly, horribly DR mauled up album: Californication - Red Hot Chili Peppers!
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Further nitpicking: "horrible" example would entail DR isn't sufficiently mauled
Addendum: we should branch off this discussion to highlight and share well-recorded albums with special focus on preserving dynamic range, and microdynamic gradations.
keith_correa
Well-Known Member
Fixed it!Further nitpicking: "horrible" example would entail DR isn't sufficiently mauled
yeah yeah......re-mastered.....as pointed by our Master
Are we confusing things a little bit. Vinyl records does have compression. Probably most of music Analogue or Digital has more or less compression. Some to bring down transients should also be called compression. Not only that the recordings are heavily processed to make them sound good, bring out artificial details, make them sound natural in typical home listening. So if we think that we are listening to 'original' recording (Studio or live) it would be wrong. Vinyl is physically limited capacity medium (Unless huge efforts are made to get as much dynamic range as possible. Remember We have 45 rpm singles for the very same reason) So for typical vinyl setup it depends on content and mastering to have a good dynamic range. Most of popular music can get away with limited dynamic range because the scale is not that much (For instance compared to western classical music). So it would be generally* wrong to say that vinyl has better dynamic range then cds infact due to physical limitations of vinyl medium; when cds came out the recording and mastering engineers got plenty of 'room' to make music loud. So the whole process of recording, mastering was changed to make it sound loud. So competition broke out to bring out more and more louder music. Now did that ruined the details of original master by compressing ? That will depend of skills of recording and mastering engineers.
As for indian vinyls our music has very limited to moderate dynamic range so we are safe if we listen to vinyls or cds. And finding out good recordings of music you like is good fun part of this hobby. Isn't it
*for typical popular music
Hope this does not break out in to digital vs analogue debates.
Regards
As for indian vinyls our music has very limited to moderate dynamic range so we are safe if we listen to vinyls or cds. And finding out good recordings of music you like is good fun part of this hobby. Isn't it
*for typical popular music
Hope this does not break out in to digital vs analogue debates.
Regards
I came across this wiki like database which highlights the dynamic range of artists around the globe. Unsurprisingly [as you had mentioned] we can see Rahman's albums post 2000 showing very narrow average DR
superczar
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DRC is not necessarily all bad.
Enabling end-user level DRC (often called Dynamic volume or similar) on a AVR or DAC makes most recordings sound a lot more pleasurable and clear when playing music in a typical home setting - i.e. at volume levels far lower than reference.
The effect is more pronounced in older recordings (with lower compression at master stage)
In an ideal world, I would have like the original master recording to be devoid of any DRC so that I could use reproduction-stage DRC normally and disable it when in the mood to appreciate the original rendering
Unfortunately the vast majority of consumer level equipment used today won't support DRC so recording companies essentially have no choice but to do this at the source stage itself.
While DRC may be anathema to purists, it is worth considering that by making the sound of music more pleasurable to most, it helps keep the industry growing!
Enabling end-user level DRC (often called Dynamic volume or similar) on a AVR or DAC makes most recordings sound a lot more pleasurable and clear when playing music in a typical home setting - i.e. at volume levels far lower than reference.
The effect is more pronounced in older recordings (with lower compression at master stage)
In an ideal world, I would have like the original master recording to be devoid of any DRC so that I could use reproduction-stage DRC normally and disable it when in the mood to appreciate the original rendering
Unfortunately the vast majority of consumer level equipment used today won't support DRC so recording companies essentially have no choice but to do this at the source stage itself.
While DRC may be anathema to purists, it is worth considering that by making the sound of music more pleasurable to most, it helps keep the industry growing!
Dynamic volume in AVR might be good for movies/western classical where the dynamic range will be very large. But in Indian music (Rahman's composition as an example), the low DR/higher loudness has resulted in flat sounding releases and in some cases even distortion if you increase the volume.
Edit: @Nikhil : I just noticed that you had posted the DR link earlier in the thread....My bad
Edit: @Nikhil : I just noticed that you had posted the DR link earlier in the thread....My bad
Alex Sterling, mixing engineer at Precision sound, NY speaks on the different ways he uses compression on a recording. From what I understood, the majority of the sound we hear are artificially textured to sound good to the musician and label, so then what is the point of endless debates over stereo equipment and speakers sounding like the original instrument?
If by real music you are referring to live and unamplified at a small venue, then you need to sit in the front row. A person sitting at the back will be hearing it different
I saw this thread and was scrolling down so I could link this video for everyone's benefit and viewing and you had already posted it. What Alex spoke of in this video did give me a very different perspective. Steve's youtube channel is quite nice. He brings out informative stuff.
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