Confused Where To Begin From: DAC, Amplifier, Receivers and So on?

[MycroftHolmes]

Let me begin this post by thanking gentle souls
@sandeepmohan @edjamesx @tapmal5 @tuff @rpmahale @drkrack @JayaRaa @elangoas @arunkvivek for my first post about which speakers to buy.
They enriched my knowledge tenfold. Although, I ended up buying nothing as some exigency came, nonetheless here I am again with my confusions

So I have decided that I will buy Bookshelf or Floorstanders but Passive speakers for sure.

Now my next problem is DAC, Integrated Amplifier or receiver?
What I intend to play:
I wish to stream music either via Bluetooth/wifi or by cable from my Phone and MacBook Pro. ( I use Apple Music but aim to use Tidal in future as well.) And can access FLACs and play them as well.
^This is my most important requirement and primary method of listening.
Secondly I "may" want to buy a turntable in the future. It would be nice if I find any set up which can take care of this requirement as well without sacrifcing on the my Primary set up quality.
Lastly, it would just be a nice cherry on top if they sound good for occasional film viewing on 2.1.

Now, I don't understand much as there is so many sorts of amplifiers tube amplifiers integrated etc that just bamboozles me.
Also in DACs are so different mini mobile headphone etc.

How is music played with such setup?
Mobile/Laptop-------(cable)----->DAC-----> Amplifer----> Speakers ??? RIght?
Or Mobile/Laptop----------------(cable)-------->Integrated Amplifier (that has DAC I guess)------Speakers ???

What combination I should look for? [Either New or Used]

I don't know how to go about this setup or what should even be the set-up

The room is 12x14ft.
The Budget for Set up is 30-50K. (Current fav Wharfedale 230 are taking 27 K in this budget) The speakers are not bought yet and can be exchanged with other good suggestions. Also, the budget can be pushed a little if some really good improvement is heard with corresponding price increment.

Thanks in advance

 

[haripkv]

Hi @MycroftHolmes ,

U r left with 23k after purchasing speakers and I would suggest you to look for an used avr which would serve your purposes i.e. dac, wifi/bluetooth connectivity etc.

 

[MycroftHolmes]

Hi @MycroftHolmes ,

U r left with 23k after purchasing speakers and I would suggest you to look for an used avr which would serve your purposes i.e. dac, wifi/bluetooth connectivity etc.

Thanks.
I can increase the DAC/Amplifier budget by 10K like can pay 30-40 for that.
I am just confused about what to get especially these components. Speakers are something that I understand and know abt. So I can decide among many.

 

[raghupb]

Look at Marantz or Cambridge audio integrted amps
Like Marantz pm6006 or equivalent
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[milestoneseeker]

I have no clue how good or bad is the DAC within your Macbook Pro though I do not have a high opinion of the DACs in laptops for stereo music. Not sure of the same about your phone but if it is Android, I wouldn't have high hopes on the DAC again. Therefore, it seems you will need a DAC alongside amplification.

Consider a used integrated amp from Denon or Marantz. Wharfdales are pretty warm speakers so you will need a forward sounding amp. You can even try Norge's amps as they will not blow away your budget out of water Norge 1000 is around 20K and I have heard it drive Dali's Spektor floor standers with ease.

For DAC, give a shot to DragonFly Black which is ~11k on headphonezone.in (DF Red is preferred but will cost ~20K). It would work with your mobile or laptop as a source and is highly rated. As a bonus, it would also work for you in case you have headphones/earphones.

This covers your chain for ~30k and leaves you some headroom for cables.

 

[MaSh]

Welcome to the forum,

Since you are looking at a Music Listening setup, the first thing you can do is strike off the Receiver. A mid segment Stereo amp will any day be easier to use and better sounding than a receiver of the same level.

So that leaves, Stereo Amp and a DAC. A stereo amp as suggested above from Marantz, Cambridge Audio, Yamaha, NAD etc. can get you started. As an addon you can look for one with a Sub out. That will make the connections a bit easier, not having one, is not a deal breaker either. Some of these may come with a DAC, however, the DAC in them will accept a coaxial or an optical input. Very few have a USB input too. I doubt you would have this in your Mobile. Mac might have an optical out, I am not sure, never used an Apple, only ate one!! So it would make sense to get a USB Dac which you can use with any computer and Mobile. This would be a Wired Connection.

If you can lay your hands on a Google Chromecast Audio, you don't need to look for anything else, as that will allow you to go Wireless, has a decent inbuilt Dac and can output Optical to use with another Dac which has Optical Input.

Or you could get a Bluetooth receiver (Logitech Or TP-Link HA100 ) and hook it to your Stereo Amp. I use the TP Link receiver in my bedroom setup and find its quality to be really good. Either of these can get you easily started without making a huge dent in your pocket. Will give you a taste of things and set you on a path for next upgrade.

MaSh

 

[sandeepmohan]

You should be fine with your choice of speaker.

As for amplifiers, stick to solid state. I do not recommend tube amplification for anyone taking their first steps into Hi Fi.

I suggest you go with a nice integrated amplifier to start with. At the budget end of the spectrum, you can't go wrong with a Marantz, Cambridge, etc. The DAC can come later. While laptops are not the best way to go about being a source input (Using headphone out), you'll have music playing for sure and with reasonable quality. With digital, it is important to get your music from the right source. Your current budget will not permit a dedicated DAC that will out perform a DAC that comes built in these days with some integrated amplifiers.

Try to get an integrated amplifier with a MM Phono input. It won't be the last word when it comes to phono stages but will get you started easily when you do decide to get in to vinyl. Else; this comes up as another expense later. Out board phono stages can cost a lot.

You'll have to treat the movie/tv requirement separately. With the advent of HDMI, it is getting harder and harder to get an analog audio feed that plugs straight into a integrated amplifier.

Take it step by step is all I can say.

 

[tusharshukla1991]

What genre of music do you listen generally?
I ask this as Wharfdales are warm speakers and combining them with Marantz will not be very to for Pop songs, in my opinion.

FM have already suggested nice combos so as another "option" for DAC+Amp I would suggest Marantz M-CR511 it's really good has wifi, bluetooth, sub out and USB.

For speakers, my personal fav is Dali so if possible you can try to audition Dali + Marantz and Wharfdales+Marantz and decide for yourself.

Cheers!

 

[drkrack]

1. Just buy a used integrated amplifier with in built DAC and TP link BT adapter.
CA Cxa 60 etc
Or buy a good analog integrated amplifier with BT adapter/use macbook analog output (its decent) & Add a dedicated DAC later when budget permits.
Or
Buy Chromecast audio +Analog integrated amplifier

2. I'd rather buy Used Flagship Marantz/ Denon receivers (those without hdmi inputs go pretty cheap), Stereo AV Receivers Are much powerful & better And provide maximum value for money. Many of these come with good FM tuners, and Phono inputs for connecting turntable.

4. If buying New ; Look for Stereo Receivers, like Yamaha RN602 which has Bluetooth and loads of power. You can get Similar models from Onkyo and Cambridge Audio(SR20 @34k) . It will be bit out of budget but you can get EMI options

4. Speakers you should look for easily drivable ones from Polk /Dali /Wharfedale/Taga /Klipsch etc..

There's a good pair of Taga Platinum floorstanders and a Rotel stereo amp & Onkyo/Yamaha Stereo Receivers on HFV classifieds if i remember correctly.

 

[elangoas]

Now my next problem is DAC, Integrated Amplifier or receiver?

AVR..

What I intend to play:
I wish to stream music either via Bluetooth/wifi or by cable from my Phone and MacBook Pro. ( I use Apple Music but aim to use Tidal in future as well.) And can access FLACs and play them as well.
^This is my most important requirement and primary method of listening.

If your Macbook Pro has HDMI output, make connectivity all the more easier with AVR..

Lastly, it would just be a nice cherry on top if they sound good for occasional film viewing on 2.1.

An AVR will suit your needs.. A basic 5.1 AVR with wi-fi, bluetooth should be abt 25 ~ 30K (or) you may consider an used AVR which can be lot beneficial..

The Budget for Set up is 30-50K. (Current fav Wharfedale 230 are taking 27 K in this budget)

Skip the Wharfedales if you can't accommodate them in your budget.. There are plenty of brands which you can accommodate in your budget...

 

[rajeshmehendiratta]

Dear Good speakers,Good amp and then DAC as if you use Mac output for tidal until you have very high estimate you won't judge the difference. Don't go for oversampling DACs. Look for NoN oversampling Dac with philips chip. I am using TeraDak more than enough. Teradak is 22k . Any other option won't help. So decide good speakers and amp first. For the time being forget turntable as it will have running expense and handling issues
Moreover very limited availability of music
Share your contact so that I can suggest few good combinations.

I can offer you some good equipment if you are interested.

 

[bornfi]

I do not think you can solve that many problems with that kind of money . Yes, this hobby is expensive unless you want to settle with something where you are just happy with some treble and bass and able to identify what song is playing. Otherwise, cross the river, come to other side and think about incremental investments and use the current fund for either a very good floor-standing speakers or a nice integrated (or pre power combo) at this time and build your system incrementally.

In my experience/opinion, AVR is a NO for music (I have no intent of hurting any of the current owners; just what my current experience is comparing $500 AVRs with NAD C352 integrated). I do not like Bluetooth connection at all however cannot deny/ignore the convenience it brings in and it is up to you you are willing to sacrifice quality over convenience.

And if you do not want to spend too much, the best place would be to look into used market and settle just for a pair of floor-standing speakers and an integrated amplifier.

 

[adhingra]

I do not think you can solve that many problems with that kind of money . Yes, this hobby is expensive unless you want to settle with something where you are just happy with some treble and bass and able to identify what song is playing. Otherwise, cross the river, come to other side and think about incremental investments and use the current fund for either a very good floor-standing speakers or a nice integrated (or pre power combo) at this time and build your system incrementally.

In my experience/opinion, AVR is a NO for music (I have no intent of hurting any of the current owners; just what my current experience is comparing $500 AVRs with NAD C352 integrated). I do not like Bluetooth connection at all however cannot deny/ignore the convenience it brings in and it is up to you you are willing to sacrifice quality over convenience.

And if you do not want to spend too much, the best place would be to look into used market and settle just for a pair of floor-standing speakers and an integrated amplifier.

Totally agree with the incremental investment route. I have twice in the past made the mistake of going for a new system lock stock and barrel. In hindsight would get good speakers in 60-70% of my budget first and then a good quality DAC, and amp can follow last. Same order for upgrades also. All the best and “cross the river” as suggested. I am still surprised, how easily many people spend $1000 on a new phone and upgrade after 2-3 years and consider the same budget “high end” for their audip setup that can last 10 years easily

 

[bornfi]

Totally agree with the incremental investment route. I have twice in the past made the mistake of going for a new system lock stock and barrel. In hindsight would get good speakers in 60-70% of my budget first and then a good quality DAC, and amp can follow last. Same order for upgrades also. All the best and “cross the river” as suggested. I am still surprised, how easily many people spend $1000 on a new phone and upgrade after 2-3 years and consider the same budget “high end” for their audip setup that can last 10 years easily

Loved the highlighted sentence above . I am sure it is going to affect some of the minds for sure.

 

[soundbuff]

Hello,
An innovative set up in your price range could be a budget DAC, with the Shiit Sys preamp (5K). You are then free to buy a power amp rather than an integrated. Buy the most powerful amp you can afford, it will get the best out of small budget speakers.

Just in case you decide to go for a budget DAC, I would be putting one up for sale shortly. (Topping D30 DAC).

 

[MycroftHolmes]

Thank you, everyone!
@haripkv @raghupb @milestoneseeker
@MaSh @sandeepmohan @tusharshukla1991 @drkrack
@elangoas @rajeshmehendiratta @bornfi
@adhingra


One thing is pretty clear that I should add DAC later in the process. (I was just worried that if I play from my phone the quality shall not be highly compromised)

I think my confusion is largely cleared--- "Good Speakers and Good Amp" as of now.
Everything else can be added later on.
But @bornfi suggestion has confused me does good DAC takes precedence over Amp?


I understand that AVR is a no-no for music but I just asked because I was thinking to invest good in speakers and relatively less amount in something to drive them. WHY? Because I plan to invest in a good Amp later on. And I can dump the AVR later at folks place for them to use it as a home theatre. Only in that vein, I was considering an AVR just good enough to sound not bad.
Any suggestion on that if buying new? ( I will definitely consider buying used AVR and up the budget for my speakers)
Also though I have listened to only a few floor standers; Wharfedale did attract me with their sound. Any other suggestions in the same range.

 

[bornfi]

But @bornfi suggestion has confused me does good DAC takes precedence over Amp?

No, it is just the restriction imposed by your budget so, if you want/have to get things and start playing music, you need speakers and amplifier because you cannot use a DAC without and amplifier.

 

[milestoneseeker]

I understand that AVR is a no-no for music but I just asked because I was thinking to invest good in speakers and relatively less amount in something to drive them. WHY? Because I plan to invest in a good Amp later on. And I can dump the AVR later at folks place for them to use it as a home theatre. Only in that vein, I was considering an AVR just good enough to sound not bad.

If you invest in a good speaker and not so great power source then you will suddenly realize that the great sound you were looking for which made you buy the speakers is not there at home when you are playing. I have also seen that the idea of buying an average AVR and then "dumping" it does not happen as seamlessly as you might think. Since an AVR is still in multiples of INR 10K, you can't just "dump" it. So you then wait for some more time (to get value from your purchase) and suddenly, your ear now does not only want a better amp but also better speakers. It is the same conundrum once again of budget vs. desire.

The whole "build system by components" works well if you one of your component is reasonably future proof. Often, I have see that the component which works well in this rule is actually the initial amp and not the initial speaker. Easier to upgrade speakers while keeping a well equipped amp the same. Other way around ... I am not so sure

 

[MaSh]

Thank you, everyone!
@haripkv @raghupb @milestoneseeker
@MaSh @sandeepmohan @tusharshukla1991 @drkrack
@elangoas @rajeshmehendiratta @bornfi
@adhingra


One thing is pretty clear that I should add DAC later in the process. (I was just worried that if I play from my phone the quality shall not be highly compromised)

I think my confusion is largely cleared--- "Good Speakers and Good Amp" as of now.
Everything else can be added later on.
But @bornfi suggestion has confused me does good DAC takes precedence over Amp?


I understand that AVR is a no-no for music but I just asked because I was thinking to invest good in speakers and relatively less amount in something to drive them. WHY? Because I plan to invest in a good Amp later on. And I can dump the AVR later at folks place for them to use it as a home theatre. Only in that vein, I was considering an AVR just good enough to sound not bad.
Any suggestion on that if buying new? ( I will definitely consider buying used AVR and up the budget for my speakers)
Also though I have listened to only a few floor standers; Wharfedale did attract me with their sound. Any other suggestions in the same range.

You are welcome.

This is a confusion we all have been at some point of time in this journey. You have to just weigh out the requirements at the moment. Decide on the Speakers First. The best that fit your budget. Then look for the amp that can drive them well. Regarding Dac, you could take a look at: FiiO K1 or even the FiiO BTR1 DAC. Either of these will connect to a usb source or Bluetooth source.

MaSh

 

[sandeepmohan]

Any suggestion on that if buying new?

If it is music you are after, an AVR is out of the question, even if temporary. Something as basic as a Marantz PM6006 will beat an AVR of equivalent price or even higher. AVR's at the budget end of the spectrum are best used as processing devices.