Culture of Stereo hifi in India....building up or fading away....

[COOLDUDE7808]

When I used to listen to a CD and then MP3 of the same track on my first HIFI system ...a small Bookshelf speakers (QUAD11l2) the difference was not much ....that too I am making an effort to find that out ....a causal listener will not bother / neither will he notice any difference ....which is the case with most of the population which listen to music .

Now when I am using a Floorstander - Tannoy XT8F , the difference between a CD and MP3 CD Or MP3 thru USB is very clear ......I still listen to MP3 and old songs on bookshelves speakers , otherwise the shortcomings are so obvious to my ears that instead of enjoying the song , I am busy analyzing it .

so you have a range - 320 kbps to FLAC but source is CD

Value of SQ which comes out of a CD compared to a Digital medium is a function of many variables . I discovered that when I upgraded

 

[aeroash]

I have seen that for the new generation to get interested in hifi stereo, if an effort is made by the experienced guys to guide them on the ease of use part, they appreciate it. Keep it simple to begin with, say something like a pair of KEF LSX is a terrific option for younger generation to get into the groove. Don't judge their music preferences, encourage them with options they could look for better sound quality in their budget, with emphasis on "plug & play" or "ease of use". The headphones scene in India has actually come of age.

KEF LSX? Wish I could afford those!

 

[Nitin K]

When I used to listen to a CD and then MP3 of the same track on my first HIFI system ...a small Bookshelf speakers (QUAD11l2) the difference was not much ....that too I am making an effort to find that out ....a causal listener will not bother / neither will he notice any difference ....which is the case with most of the population which listen to music .

Now when I am using a Floorstander - Tannoy XT8F , the difference between a CD and MP3 CD Or MP3 thru USB is very clear ......I still listen to MP3 and old songs on bookshelves speakers , otherwise the shortcomings are so obvious to my ears that instead of enjoying the song , I am busy analyzing it .

so you have a range - 320 kbps to FLAC but source is CD

Value of SQ which comes out of a CD compared to a Digital medium is a function of many variables . I discovered that when I upgraded

Would agree with you on a good quality CD recording. Sometimes a good quality MP3 also sounds great.
Had subscribed to Spotify premium and found a lot of recordings very bland although the streaming was set on the highest quality.

I guess the pleasure of stereo listening on a vinyl or a cd is great for a dwindling few. Radio listening is also on the verge of extinction.
Nowadays most of the younger generation prefer the convenience of streaming technology rather than pick up a media and place it in a source to play it.
Shortage of time and living space in cities is another factor where stereo and HT generally need to be combined for convenience.

 

[Bhaskar Jyoti Talapatra]

Undoubtedly a very relevant topic has been mooted. In my opinion the new generation does not dislike the conventional 2 channel rig comprising of an amplifier and either bs or fs. But they are also ok with a streaming app like gana or Spotify and a good headphone. Actually a student can hardly afford the expenses of buying an amp and a pair of even decent speakers. I think when they get a suitable placement, they will also walk along the same route as we do. Back in my school and college days I used to have my favourite tracks recorded in blank cassettes and listen to those. Later while studying in university I saved pocket money and bought CDs of my choice. After having been bankrolled I collect vinyls( of course I had some before), CDs and gradually begin buying rigs of my liking. Today a young boy or girl has so many options to listen to music which we did not have. However, I don't think that the traditional 2 channel stereo rig is fading away. If we look at the present hi-fi selling online or offline shops, we will find that those rigs have a steady sale. Besides, the branded companies release so many new rigs with many facilities. Thus we can be hopeful that the new generation will also buy those and enjoy music.

 

[Deleted member 15865]

It was separates in the 70’s, hi-fi systems in the 90’s and it is head/earphones connected to smartphones now. What’s mainstream keeps changing over decades. Of course there’d be exceptional individuals who buck the trend, but teenagers, adolescents and young adults generally follow the trend of their times. And in many cases, continue to follow it over their lifetime. So there’s niche market always for retro products (Caravan is a good example) and there’d also be mini-revivals or older trends (LPs for example)... but they don’t really challenge the mainstream choice.

Even the content changes to suit the mainstream device (the cause-effect is both ways actually). Like the mainstream today prefers reading short articles (or even shorter tweets) on their smartphones and not long-format articles in printed magazines (which too are morphing to keep up with the change). Similarly the musical world today makes more singles (suitable to streaming platforms) than albums (suitable to physical media).

Can we really evaluate and pass judgements? We are free to, but every judgment is based on a value system (of what’s important to us). And that mainstream values change too. One can deride youngsters today for being distracted and having low attention span. But they are also less likely to resist change or cling on to one thing. And in a world where life-time job (or even life-time marriage) is becoming more of a mirage, that’s perhaps just evolutional necessity !

Can we still work on influencing someone (especially younger) with our value system? Sure. That’s what leads to some exceptions to the mainstream. As long as they are still able to fit in and be themselves, it adds a good counterpoint to the mainstream. And just like in music, counterpoints make a more beautiful polyphonic whole everywhere in life!

 

[shubham24x7diy]

Hello to All, After exploring the portable music stuff for couple of years, recently I have moved to stereo setup (Yamaha AS 500 and DIY 3 way Floor standers). The culture of stereo hifi among youngsters has been shifted to either portable devices (mobile and BT Speakers) or moved to home theatres. I am 27 and Living and exploring in and around delhi areas I observed that the hifi/mid-fi/ low-fi stereo leniage has not been completly transfered to the yougsters. it is lost somewhere in bethere home theatre and online streamong apps. Here either we see B&W, FOCAL Marantz and lavish brands or simply PA systems or car audio. Following are my noob' s views on why 2 channel stereo is fading with the time.

The stereo systems of 70s, 80s, has been replaced by AV recievers in commercial shops during 2000s and till date. As we are more attractive to functions and features rather than quality and simplicity. My visits to audio stores offer me more AV recievers/ home theatres and less of stereo amplifiers. the cost of 5.1 home theatre reciever varies from 8000 to lacs. but same not with the stereo system,second hand market like agents and olx has less stereo systems to offer. So eventually whatever is offered to us we buy that only.

The youngsters of today were greeted by legendary walkmans, ipods and 2.1 & 5.1 music system during their childhood. So they moved in that only. We can easily get 2,1 or 5,1 music system in any audio shops . Spotify, gaana tidal amazon all these have tremendous reach to the youngster and are pocket friendly too .........think of any stereo system advertisement we saw or heard.

Baby ko Bass pasand hai... (Girl like bass) this is a biggest let down for stereo system for not being on everybody's shelf . I dont know the rest of India but in north specially around delhi areas people loves earth shaking bass to which the stereo system will never fulfill even if SW is added. Here even PA systems are not suffiecient enough to satify their BASS hunger. My cousin has sony hifi system which gives boomy bass even on kishore kumar's sad songs.... and to add more humour he repeatedly ask me whether i like overwhelemingly or not.

Pocket friendly brands like sonodyne, woodstock, phillips and cosmic LAB are either completly shuts stereo setups or shifted to some other platform. Back in days phillips 242 TT, Cosmic 3000, Phillips HI-Q speakers and RACK system were slightly affordable. In current audio market there is absence of affordable music system, which is captured by intex, F&D Sony, JBL which can be seen in everybodys home and they hardly offer even a active Bookshelf speakers except few options with Edifier and F&D. I was expecting a famous DIY brand to come up with budget Bookshelf speaker and amp but it didn't. Online website offers stereo amp and BS speakers for roughly 35-40K in which some brands offers complete home theatre.

Easy-Peasy solution: in fast pace life this is must for every audio stuff to be successfull but sadly no budget stereo amp comes with bluetooth+ pendrive+ cast feature. except some Class D chinese amps has this. Thats why bluetooth earphone and spekers becomes mass market product. A good bluetooth adaptor cost 3000 Rs. and same amount is for a decent bluetooth speaker.

TV Series Generation: Well this everyone knows we are living in Netflix, Hotstar and Multiplex world where all this is part of lifestlye. Everthing has a video on Youtube Tiktok etc. less space left for music to be explored within 24 hours of a day.

The quality of Music these days and access to LPs , SACD and FLAC are other factor in fading or shifting the stereo world. New generation would only enclined toward stereo stuff only if it is promoted to them. To hear is to believe.

Thats my 3 years of experience in Stereo system and exploring online and offline stuff in my area. Please enlighten me wherevere necessary.

 

[firearm12]

Baby ko Bass pasand hai... (Girl like bass) this is a biggest let down for stereo system for not being on everybody's shelf . I dont know the rest of India but in north specially around delhi areas people loves earth shaking bass to which the stereo system will never fulfill even if SW is added. Here even PA systems are not suffiecient enough to satify their BASS hunger. My cousin has sony hifi system which gives boomy bass even on kishore kumar's sad songs.... and to add more humour he repeatedly ask me whether i like overwhelemingly or not.

This is fully true. Whenever i say to someone bass is not my priority and its not needed for good music, i am made to feel like i have said something alien.

 

[Deleted member 15865]

This is fully true. Whenever i say to someone bass is not my priority and its not needed for good music, i am made to feel like i have said something alien.

Probably what you mean is ‘boom’and not ‘bass’. While boom is bad, bass is good. If there’s deep bass in a music, you’d want to hear it - ideally in a flat frequency response - which is very difficult and costly to produce at (both) ends of the audible frequency range. Commercially available boom boxes don’t do any of it. What they produce is a boomy bass that’s not on the recording,

 

[greenhorn]

The reverse also works against us. A lot of us are not particularly keen on listening to a flat sound signature.
As much as I love my mids and highs, Bass is always, and continues to be my first priority. Quality bass, but bass nevertheless, and in a lot of forums, when you say you have a preference for bass, people start treating you as some sort of degenerate.

There was this head fi thread, where I said that i found the sony MDR XB950 more to my taste than a $500 headphone. And even after i spent $500 of mine to buy the said headphone, nobody was willing to accept that a $200 sony could sound better. The budget audiophile reddit sees itself as a space for hifi separates, and is not open to other systems. headphone guys think they are superior to guys with speakers. objectivists fight subjectivists. Tube vs Solid state, Cables... Hi Fi would have much better chances of growing if we were a bit more inclusive. In our quest to be exclusive, we have excluded ourselves into a corner ... sort of like harley davidson.
Audiokarma and this forum are somewhat progressive in this regard, but still you get members who tend to have very strong opinions. if you like music you are welcome - regardless of whether you are listening to Ana Caram on your Tube + horn system, or listening to one direction on your beats headphones.

Car forums used to have similar issues between the "muscle car" vs "import tuner" and now the "stance" and "drift" guys. But they are slowly realizing that ultimately they are all car guys, and being hostile to each other really doesn't help anyone.

 

[superczar]

The reverse also works against us. A lot of us are not particularly keen on listening to a flat sound signature.
As much as I love my mids and highs, Bass is always, and continues to be my first priority. Quality bass, but bass nevertheless, and in a lot of forums, when you say you have a preference for bass, people start treating you as some sort of degenerate.

There was this head fi thread, where I said that i found the sony MDR XB950 more to my taste than a $500 headphone. And even after i spent $500 of mine to buy the said headphone, nobody was willing to accept that a $200 sony could sound better. The budget audiophile reddit sees itself as a space for hifi separates, and is not open to other systems. headphone guys think they are superior to guys with speakers. objectivists fight subjectivists. Tube vs Solid state, Cables... Hi Fi would have much better chances of growing if we were a bit more inclusive. In our quest to be exclusive, we have excluded ourselves into a corner ... sort of like harley davidson.
Audiokarma and this forum are somewhat progressive in this regard, but still you get members who tend to have very strong opinions. if you like music you are welcome - regardless of whether you are listening to Ana Caram on your Tube + horn system, or listening to one direction on your beats headphones.

Car forums used to have similar issues between the "muscle car" vs "import tuner" and now the "stance" and "drift" guys. But they are slowly realizing that ultimately they are all car guys, and being hostile to each other really doesn't help anyone.

Oh, there certainly is a lot of elitism in audio circles.
A cheap class D amp couple with a decent bookshelf like the q acc 3010i (with no name cables) will give a new explorer a pretty good entry point...

Yet when someone testing the water asks for a 20K stereo setup, they get advise to first bump up their budget as their measly 20K won’t even get them a basic integrated amp - let alone some fairy dust cables
What do you think the poor fella will do but get a soundbar or similar?

 

[Deleted member 15865]

The reverse also works against us. A lot of us are not particularly keen on listening to a flat sound signature.
As much as I love my mids and highs, Bass is always, and continues to be my first priority. Quality bass, but bass nevertheless, and in a lot of forums, when you say you have a preference for bass, people start treating you as some sort of degenerate.

There was this head fi thread, where I said that i found the sony MDR XB950 more to my taste than a $500 headphone. And even after i spent $500 of mine to buy the said headphone, nobody was willing to accept that a $200 sony could sound better. The budget audiophile reddit sees itself as a space for hifi separates, and is not open to other systems. headphone guys think they are superior to guys with speakers. objectivists fight subjectivists. Tube vs Solid state, Cables... Hi Fi would have much better chances of growing if we were a bit more inclusive. In our quest to be exclusive, we have excluded ourselves into a corner ... sort of like harley davidson.
Audiokarma and this forum are somewhat progressive in this regard, but still you get members who tend to have very strong opinions. if you like music you are welcome - regardless of whether you are listening to Ana Caram on your Tube + horn system, or listening to one direction on your beats headphones.

Car forums used to have similar issues between the "muscle car" vs "import tuner" and now the "stance" and "drift" guys. But they are slowly realizing that ultimately they are all car guys, and being hostile to each other really doesn't help anyone.

Oh, there certainly is a lot of elitism in audio circles.
A cheap class D amp couple with a decent bookshelf like the q acc 3010i (with no name cables) will give a new explorer a pretty good entry point...

Yet when someone testing the water asks for a 20K stereo setup, they get advise to first bump up their budget as their measly 20K won’t even get them a basic integrated amp - let alone some fairy dust cables
What do you think the poor fella will do but get a soundbar or similar?

To its credit, Hifivision forum is a lot more inclusive and far less elitist than say Team BHP (while both are top notch in their domains). I find FMs open to help new entrants with meagre budget as much as someone looking for a super expensive component. What I do find instead is tech elitism (knowledge show off) in some. That becomes overwhelming especially when one is new to the hobby.

 

[Bhaskar Jyoti Talapatra]

Agreed with the opinion of FM sachin chavan and superczar. HFV is pragmatic and here elitism hardly finds any place. Personally when I came here to quench my thirst , most of the FMs answered me sincerely. I can't say anything about other audio forums but HFV is realistic and decent along side being romantic and humane. Realistic in the sense, most of the advices coming from FMs are down to earth, affordable and romantic in the sense, many of the FMs still embrace the analogue technology. This is what I think about our lovely forum.
Regards

 

[Nitin K]

To its credit, Hifivision forum is a lot more inclusive and far less elitist than say Team BHP (while both are top notch in their domains). I find FMs open to help new entrants with meagre budget as much as someone looking for a super expensive component. What I do find instead is tech elitism (knowledge show off) in some. That becomes overwhelming especially when one is new to the hobby.

Very true, from the very fact that the moderators welcome new members which is very encouraging. Learning is a never ending process & that is why we are here to share ideas & views & learn.
With regards to Team BHP, less said the better . While it is a good forum no doubt, but trying to become a member of that forum is like seeking admission for a medical college.

 

[nn_in]

The all in one box...just add spkrs (AJAS) trend may bring in new folks into stereo or atleast prevent it from fading away . Assumption is new folks are buying these AJAS !

 

[jagadeeshwarank]

Just registering my experience here. Listening to music was not my cuppa tea till end of my schooldays. I was never even exposed to how a HiFi would sound. I have seen quite a few people making custom amplifiers, speakers for cassette players, didn't understand what's all the fuss is about. Even I remember one of my relative who had a re-recording shop, who took his time to explain me how a LP record is good for music quality. Fast forward I got a lot of time for listening to music through portable casette players, I got hooked.
I bought a PC with creative speakers, which was my standard for listening to music/movies back then , till recently.
When I joined the forum I was reading through most of the posts, I was wondering why would people move from a HT setup to a stereo until I went auditioning for HT speakers where I had first taste of HiFi stereo.
I am thinking of setting up one if not in near future.

Tldr; Not everyone is exposed to hearing music in isolation let alone HiFi systems. Chances of hearing music through HiFi systems is very less. Like one of our FM said earlier most people just want enough thump, to be satisfied which are given by any 2.1 speakers or some cases portable Bluetooth speakers.
Add to that most people hear songs on the go and not everyone want the nuances of it.
I feel adding a HT system might infact attract more people to HiFi stereo.

 

[reubensm]

Actually, listening to music is fun and even though i am old-school, growing up in the 70s with weekend long listening sessions, sitting along with Dad and giving feedback while he fiddled around with gain stages, feedback networks, cross overs and what not. From my experience, there are broadly 2 separate interest-streams combined as one. The first interest is in the music itself and the second interest is in the equipment that reproduces it. Folk with both interests usually land up on HFV. My father would always tell me not to become like him, to just forget the equipment and enjoy the music. However since the interest in reproducing equipment is also there, its not that easy. I have noticed with my sons (12 yrs and 8 yrs) that they don't care much about the equipment but are interested in the tune and the lyrics. However for me, the desire to own and listen to the equipment also matters. What can be more satisfying, than to listen to Hi-Fi music, coming of a spinning record or a reel tape. Its all about personal preferences, I guess

 

[COOLDUDE7808]

vintage available in US is refurbished / reworked and a whole lot of parts are changed (like capacitor etc) which increases its life by a few more years ....then they charge a certain amount

In India such a infrastructure does not really exists ....people see ebay and other websites and then compare and quote the same price for what is mostly junk ...

Oh, there certainly is a lot of elitism in audio circles.
A cheap class D amp couple with a decent bookshelf like the q acc 3010i (with no name cables) will give a new explorer a pretty good entry point...

Yet when someone testing the water asks for a 20K stereo setup, they get advise to first bump up their budget as their measly 20K won’t even get them a basic integrated amp - let alone some fairy dust cables
What do you think the poor fella will do but get a soundbar or similar?

This is subjective . When somebody moves to HIFI ...he excepts a better SQ than what he is used to right now ....
So If I am using a Portable audio system or listening to music from Laptop speakers then I can go for a Class D amp or Norge amps and that would be HIFI for me . So a budget of 20 K would be enough

But If I am already using a old Sony /Philips / Panasonic stereo system with bookshelf or FS speakers then I have to move to system which may cost me 50k to 1L or more to experience better SQ ....

Otherwise the difference in SQ is so negligible that I may come to a conclusion that there is nothing like HIFI .

 

[firearm12]

This is subjective . When somebody moves to HIFI ...he excepts a better SQ than what he is used to right now ....
So If I am using a Portable audio system or listening to music from Laptop speakers then I can go for a Class D amp or Norge amps and that would be HIFI for me . So a budget of 20 K would be enough

But If I am already using a old Sony /Philips / Panasonic stereo system with bookshelf or FS speakers then I have to move to system which may cost me 50k to 1L or more to experience better SQ ....

Otherwise the difference in SQ is so negligible that I may come to a conclusion that there is nothing like HIFI .

Its true, i used to listen to very good sennheiser and sony earphones and had very good creative speakers for my pc along with good soundcard. That was all i had in name of hifi before i ventured into real hifi. My first speaker was dali menuet and amp was marantz pm8003 and frankly speaking as an inexperienced fellow in this area when i brought those speakers home they sounded like shit to me in my room. Slowly steadily realised room sources even amps need to synergise in order for all of it to work. Still i could not enjoy fully until i got speaker stands, a good dac and even a subwoofer which turned very costly. This shows how much one has to spend and how much he has to work on these things to realise whats inside. And this is true for any level of system at whatever price.

 

[msaab90]

Its true, i used to listen to very good sennheiser and sony earphones and had very good creative speakers for my pc along with good soundcard. That was all i had in name of hifi before i ventured into real hifi. My first speaker was dali menuet and amp was marantz pm8003 and frankly speaking as an inexperienced fellow in this area when i brought those speakers home they sounded like shit to me in my room. Slowly steadily realised room sources even amps need to synergise in order for all of it to work. Still i could not enjoy fully until i got speaker stands, a good dac and even a subwoofer which turned very costly. This shows how much one has to spend and how much he has to work on these things to realise whats inside. And this is true for any level of system at whatever price.

Excellent argument. Our starting point on the curve decides our amazement upon initial exposure to decent stereo gear. Nowadays perceptions are heavily modulated by exposure to powerful atmos theater systems and not so bad portable gear. Our generation was not exposed to these bombastic technologies. A certain amount of exasperation with the current scenario is needed to rouse interest in pure musical experience afforded by a good quality stereo. That is the reason audiophilia is a an affliction tied to advancing age. Younger generations value freedom to experience music in any environment of their choice with total privacy, hence the preference for headphones. Ask any headphone enthusiast and he will say that headphones deliver the purest audio. They will qualify this statement by pointing to elimination of room acoustics and myriad other technicalities, and also the fact that a high end headphone setup costs much less than a high end stereo setup. I think we have to understand that music is about aesthetic sensibilities, which in turn evolve from generation to generation and take varying shapes in terms of associated equipment. Moreover it is difficult to differentiate fads from lasting evolution. We like any other hobbyist are ensconced in our own bubble with unique perception of our world, demanding undying passion from even the new initiates. This is a case of lofty expectations. I think this hobby is alive and kicking but would never be mainstream because of leisure and monetary constraints.

 

[Deleted member 15865]

Excellent argument. Our starting point on the curve decides our amazement upon initial exposure to decent stereo gear. Nowadays perceptions are heavily modulated by exposure to powerful atmos theater systems and not so bad portable gear. Our generation was not exposed to these bombastic technologies. A certain amount of exasperation with the current scenario is needed to rouse interest in pure musical experience afforded by a good quality stereo. That is the reason audiophilia is a an affliction tied to advancing age. Younger generations value freedom to experience music in any environment of their choice with total privacy, hence the preference for headphones. Ask any headphone enthusiast and he will say that headphones deliver the purest audio. They will qualify this statement by pointing to elimination of room acoustics and myriad other technicalities, and also the fact that a high end headphone setup costs much less than a high end stereo setup. I think we have to understand that music is about aesthetic sensibilities, which in turn evolve from generation to generation and take varying shapes in terms of associated equipment. Moreover it is difficult to differentiate fads from lasting evolution. We like any other hobbyist are ensconced in our own bubble with unique perception of our world, demanding undying passion from even the new initiates. This is a case of lofty expectations. I think this hobby is alive and kicking but would never be mainstream because of leisure and monetary constraints.

You write very well! Also you have put things in perspective - with which there’s always a risk of losing because hobbies and passions become so consuming.

Can you help understand why you say “aesthetic sensibilities evolve from generation to generation and take varying shapes in terms of associated equipment”? I’d think it’s ‘values’ that evolve/change from generation to generation and also within the same generation as we age. For example, a teenager is likely to value mobility and freedom while mid-ager might value leisure and relaxation. And these are likely to influence their choice of equipment and listening environment. But when it comes to aesthetic sensibilities (that influence our choice of music and musicians), I’ve found it to be more individual specific than generation (era) or age specific. I find many youngsters with heightened (aesthetic) sensibilities as well as many in their forties and fifties with blunted sensibilities.

One could argue against this pointing to how aficionados in their seventies today would listen to Shamshad Begum, those in their fifties to Lata Mangeshkar, and those in their twenties to Shreya Ghoshal. But I don’t see it as a result of different aesthetic sensibilities - all three choices reflect fine /classic sensibility. The difference is only because of the attendant factors that are era specific - and those include (but not limited to) lyrical content, musical arrangements, recording techniques etc.

Thanks for triggering this reflection.