Dac

[shrjun]

What would be a good USB DAC ?
Source - flac files on laptop
Listening - music(90%)
Player - mediamonkey gold
Speakers - Audioengine A5
Room size - 12 ft /12 ft
Budget - Rs.10,000

and where can I buy this online at a good deal?

Thanx.

 

[shrjun]

and would this significantly improve the SQ of the A5?

 

[spirovious]

Beresford 7520 is near your budget,
Beresford TC-7520 DAC - Headphone Amplifier - Preamp

OR Caiman
Home HI-FI

 

[audiodelic]

Well I have the AE A5 and a dac so let me brief you about the improvements.

Firstly i used my laptop internal soundcard which i couldn't stand bass was not tight but boomy. Highs were not as accurate.

Then i started using my creative x-fi xtreme notebook. Although i saw some improvement bass got a little tighter, highs more accurate and mid range improvement was subtle. The other problem i still faced even with the creative was the fatigue factor/no soul in the music, too digital sounding. Especially since i listen to trance music which is already electronic sounding.

Finally i read rave reviews about the Beresford Caiman and i nervously took the plunge and invested 15k on a DAC for 20K speakers + 18K subwoofer. I was skeptical whether i would see that much improvement.

But after burning in the DAC for a bit, i think it was worth it. Firstly the music now has a nice sound signature to it .... not fatiguing and i can listen to the system for hours together sometimes even if i dont want to i just sit and admire how clear it is.The bass now has more definition, the mid range has come alive and the highs are crystal clear. There are times when it sounds so good that i say to myself the dac was a great investment which will pay itself off.

 

[spirovious]

Can you compare it with any analoge source?

 

[square_wave]

Can you compare it with any analoge source?

To make a digital source comparable to a analogue source, you need to spend a lot of money. A transport and DAC is the way to go. If you are going the hard disk and DAC way, your flacs need to be pristine HD downloads. Flacs created using cd roms in PC'S have a lot of jitter error.

An A5 by itself is very far away from sounding like analogue . I had this speaker in my home for couple of weeks. The sound from them can be described as " crisp " and " clear " ! Very entry level "executive audiophile sound"

It far away from neutral and miles away from sounding like "real analogue sound"

 

[audiodelic]

@square wave:
so which speakers .... give me a few examples will be close to the analogue sound ?

and can you also define what real analogue sound is ?

 

[square_wave]

Analogue sounding speakers - Close to analogue sound will be top of the line studio monitors (the expensive ones) and in consumer audio there are many good examples. Most are very expensive. The cost of the drivers itself will be 5 times the cost of the A5 retail. I do not want to get into names. You can also do DIY and get close to analogue sound if you know what you are doing.

Real analogue sound = Close to what you hear in real life.Will not have the shimmer and crispness associated with "executive hifi". I do not want to get into an explanation using audiophile "lyrics".But it is not how it sounds on an A5. Sorry !

Disclaimer: I got into this discussion because someone associated analogue sound to a pc based source going through some DAC connected to an A5. I am sure a system like this will sound very nice. But analogue sound is hi end territory. Not one that can be achieved by doing something like this. I am in no way putting down your system. I am sure it sounds very nice.

 

[audiodelic]

@squarewave:
I am not going to get offended .... i am satisfied with what my rig sounds like.But i want to understand more about this 'real analogue sound'.

Can something like the Dynaudio BM6A which are well regarded monitors in pro music industry be considered a speaker with analogue sound ?
Price is not important .... give me some examples monitors and speakers

Other audio guru's can you also please give your views on this analogue sound....

 

[unleash_me]

Not on speakers specifically, but this is one man's view on analogue sound.

YouTube - Can Digital Recordings Sound as Good as Analog?

 

[arj]

Other audio guru's can you also please give your views on this analogue sound....

Not an Audio Guru.. But analogue sound is what an anlogue gear sounds like. as long as the sound appears really Smooth and flows..even though it may not be neutral and may be rolled off at both ends (Or may not be !) it is called analogue.

Studio equipment are meant to be used in Studios ie with very well treated walls. In a regular home, unless u do nearfield at low volumes, the room reflections will make it sound really bad.
If you want the best sound and if youy are ok with voices around/in your head, Headphones will get you there .

speakers which may most reproduce what is often defined as analogue would be Quads/Epos/Harbeth/Spendor/JMR etc etc. (ie if these speakers are amplified well and given the right source )

Of course one can argue otherwise as well

 

[square_wave]

@Arj,

Analogue for me = close to real sound which you hear in nature (live) with no amplification.

The reason = real sound is "analogue" in nature.

In my earlier post I was not refering to typical "analogue sounding" rigs at all. They too also coloured to some extent. My view is that a neutral system will sound "analogue".

 

[square_wave]

@square wave:
so which speakers .... give me a few examples will be close to the analogue sound ?

and can you also define what real analogue sound is ?

On a different note,

Are you looking for suggestions for a music system which is fairely neutral ?

If money is not a factor, You could start auditioning a system based on Theil speakers. There are many more options but if you start auditioning and posting back your thoughts, many members will surely chime in

 

[ajinkya]

If you are going the hard disk and DAC way, your flacs need to be pristine HD downloads. Flacs created using cd roms in PC'S have a lot of jitter error.

Square_wave,
This is completely untrue. I do not know why there is still this lingering feeling in our community that flac is somehow "different" from the CD it is created from. There is a reason why digital signals are so prevalent: unlike analog signals, error detection and correction in a digital signal is far superior.

So, when you create a flac using a mediocre transport, software (EAC is one of the best out there) can and does correct from misreads and bit errors, while converting. The final flac copy is bit-identical to the CD source. The only time this doesn't happen is if the CD is very badly scratched or the transport itself has some mechanical/electrical fault. In these circumstances, EAC will try its best and then flag an error on spots where it thinks the error correction did not succeed. PC-based music (with a good external DAC) has reached a level of quality which is now comparable to CD players. I have found no difference between the two in listening tests, if the same DAC is used for the D-A conversion during comparison.

Before using "jitter" in general, one must define very carefully what one means. When one is creating a flac copy from CD, where there is "infinite" time for rereads and corrections, where does jitter come in at all? I can understand jitter problems when one is decoding on the fly or DAC conversion. Creating flac and jitter do not gel in my mind. Could you explain what you mean by "jitter error"?

 

[square_wave]

@ajinkya,

I do not have any doubt that Flac is the same as what is there on a CD. My only issue is Flac created using mediocre to bad cd roms. I have been using EAC for a while now and have compared cds created using flacs created using different PCs . They somehow sound different. I am assuming it is some error. I am sure EAC is doing its best to avoid errors.

I have no argument against PC playback systems as long as the Flac is pristine

 

[shrjun]

are there any USB DACs that I can buy online(indian websites)?

 

[spirovious]

Beresford,Zero DAC from ebay.

 

[IndianEars]

square wave said:

Flacs created using cd roms in PC'S have a lot of jitter error.

Can you tell us more about this ?

I guess that the jitter creeps in during the CDR writing process ?

( Ripped by EAC, the file on the HDD is jitter free ? )

Any way to measure / estimate this jitter ( there is software that can measure the amount of write errors (CRC Errors). Simlar software available for jitter ?

Thanks

 

[thevortex]

To make a digital source comparable to a analogue source, you need to spend a lot of money. A transport and DAC is the way to go. If you are going the hard disk and DAC way, your flacs need to be pristine HD downloads. Flacs created using cd roms in PC'S have a lot of jitter error.

An A5 by itself is very far away from sounding like analogue . I had this speaker in my home for couple of weeks. The sound from them can be described as " crisp " and " clear " ! Very entry level "executive audiophile sound"

It far away from neutral and miles away from sounding like "real analogue sound"

While I agree that a lot of money and effort has to be put in to make any system sound nice - I am not sure that I agree with the theory that flacs ripped via PC DVD drives will have jitter.

People are fine with playing those same CDs on CD spindles which introduce far greater jitter! In fact eliminating jitter is one of the main objectives of PC audio.

One other thing - how are we sure that those HD audio files that you speak of on the internet are not ripped using one drive or the other?!

 

[thevortex]

Just seeing that this thread was talking about 'analog' sound and live sound.

A Non oversampling (NOS) DAC will do that. Please see if you can find any TDA 1543 based NOS DAC - with USB out.