Direct Drive versus Belt Drive

[flanker.r]

Technics has rarely, if ever, built anything that would be considered audiophile. I don't know who espouses this but I would take this with a grain of salt


.

No dude, Technics has definitely built some very good gear and their TTs are exceptional. Dare I say technics is to TT as Nakamichi is to cassette decks. They took TT research very seriously and designed some very good equipment. They were the first to develop the linear tracking TT, a design that all other manufacturer's were only able to dream then (ya, although B&O made a prototype, technics were the first to perfect the design and make a commercial model)

Their cassette decks too were of very high quality and competed with the Naks and Tandbergs and what about EQs? Although we dismiss them today so they were so vital in the days of cassette decks and technics made some very good models

Although LG and Samsungs sell by truck loads, Maruti 800 still remains the dream car for lots of people it does not mean whatever is endorsed by the mass sucks. Good products too reach up to that level and get the attention they deserve until the manufacturer chooses to diverge and dilute the product range examples being O-General, sony (the WM series walkman) and of course Technics!

 

[stevieboy]

nice thread. am in a similar boat, contemplating the vinyl foray.

however, no clear decisions as yet.

the range suggested is:-

Rega P1
Pro-jekt Debut 3 (Phono SB, or w/o with separate phono maybe from NAD/Lyrita)
Pro-jekt Genie (RPM1) or Genie 2
Music Hall MMF 2.1
Technics SL-D3/SL1200 Mk2/SL1210 Mk2
Dual HS52 (1218)
Thorens TD125
Phillips 242
Denon DP300F
AudioTechnica PL50/AT-PL120
Sherwood PM-9805

Linn Majik LP12 (starter, hi-end)

It is possible some of the a/m are not available any longer, esp. in India.

Leaning toward Pro-jekt Debut 3 and Denon DP300F.

hi hifiashok,

i'd definitely lean towards the project. good sound, and the dealer in mumbai sushil anand of nova audio certainly knows turntables. project are geared totally towards turntables while denon is more of a fill in the range in my products gap type of turntable. not saying its bad but my money's on project. a word of advice if you can afford to push your budget, go for a table that has a carbon fibre arm and as solid a platter as you can. considering the hardly existent second hand market for tts you might as well get a good player once and for all. though i've heard the debut and its really lovely for the price!


regards

 

[hifiashok]

hi hifiashok,
a word of advice if you can afford to push your budget, go for a table that has a carbon fibre arm and as solid a platter as you can.


regards

any model suggestion pl. that'd be a start to proceed.

also, had commn. with Nova but did not get a revert. needed a confirmation on impedance rating since i was facing issues with matching with my amp.

 

[stevieboy]

hi hifiashok,

i think the experience series have carbon fibre arms. not too sure so you'll have to research the tables at Pro-Ject Audio Systems. the important parts are platter and arm like i've mentioned. cos if you get a good arm you can upgrade to better cartridges later on. if you dont have a good arm a better cartridge will be a waste since the arm will not allow the cart to perform to its max. however first fix your budget and decide by how much you're willing to stretch. for example i was looking at the entry level debut III and there was a second hand rpm 9 too for bout 50k. so i took the decision to push my budget and i got the rpm 9. so how flexible you are will influence the kind of tables you go for.

the price range is bout 20k for a new debut III. then there are price points of 30k 40k 50k roughly. call mr sushil 02226002012 or 02226007700 better than emailing him.

he also frequently has ex-demo pieces so ask him for those too.

as far as impedences can you clarify what issues you have? do you already have a table and are playing it? or are you generally worried about matching? if so then you dont need to worry cos generally you have a phono stage which you then plug into your amp there's really no matching involved between phono and amp cos the phono outputs a line level like your cd player. or you have an amp which has a phono input which simplifies life for you. the area of real worry re impedences is only when you get to the area of low output cartridges that output 0.5 mV or so. and then you worry about matching the phonostage to the cart to ensure the cart is loaded properly. not phonostage to the amp.

regards

 

[stevieboy]

also it depends on whether you're going to make vinyl your main playback medium. if not i'd suggest you go for the debut III. or debut III phono which has a phonostage and speed control inbuilt. the speed control helps in stabilising pitch. very essential function.

regards

 

[hifiashok]

thank you for the guidance.

 

[rsud]

No dude, Technics has definitely built some very good gear and their TTs are exceptional.

Sorry dude. Technics dedication to making a quality TT doesn't even make it past them designing proper arm geometry. The arm is mounted too close to the platter. I can only assume they do this to save money on material by not making the turntable 2 inches wider.

I'd put money on the Rega P1 blowing away this supposed audiophile Technics TT!

 

[analogadikt]

Dear rsud,

Please give a serious listen to a properly set up SP10, SL1200, SL10 or SL7. The SP10 is a broadcast TT. The SL7 and 10 are amongst the best linear trackers out there. The SL1200 was originally developed for DJ application, but many audiophiles use it. This has an armless version, the SL120.

Could you mention which arm alignment protractor you have used to confirm that original Technics arm set up is wrong?

Regards,

analogadikt

 

[particleman]

Marc Phillips, the "Vinyl Anachronist" had written about this very debate a few years ago in his column:
Perfect Sound Forever: Vinyl Anachronist

"I've told this story before, but my late friend Steve Zipser used to have an audio dealership in South Florida. In his front window, he had a Rega Planar 3 and a Technics SL-1200 sitting next to each other, with a sign asking people to come in and hear the differences for themselves. And Steve told me that not one person over the years preferred the Technics over the Rega, and that the vast majority of people felt that there was a drastic difference between the two 'tables."​

As for me, I'm just a spectator as I've never been able to get into vinyl.

 

[venkatcr]

Marc Philips seems to be a die hard belt driven TT fan.

Interesting how Roy Gandy turned the accusation of speed variation against his Rega's into an 'advantage'. Pure marketing genius I must say.

This belt vs direct drive (SL versus Rega) seems to have been going on for years. Shall we amicably end it here, guys?

I myself was looking at buying a Technics TT. Looks as if I must go back to the drawing board again. Sigh.

Cheers

 

[stevieboy]

I myself was looking at buying a Technics TT. Looks as if I must go back to the drawing board again. Sigh.

Cheers

yikes! no no venkat! if you like the sound of the technics by all means go buy it! if you haven't heard it you need to do your due diligence and ask around for someone who has it and listen to it and an entry level project debut III. then decide. all depends on how much you want to invest in the medium. any entry level tt will make you happy unless you're really really into vinyl to the extent of worrying about things like researching carts, cart tonearm combinations for resonance matching, plinth upgrading etc... otherwise just go for the first tt whose sound you like and start enjoying vinyl.

regards

 

[grubyhalo]

Hi Venkat,
Here's a thought from a non-expert, non-audiophile, if it appeals to you. How about looking for a decent used Technics and get (or even conjure your own) a decent phono-amp and see how it sounds in your system. You could also try listening to the Pro-Jects that seem to be available across India and see where the SL falls. If you think the SL does have the mojo as claimed by so many, you could upgrade the tone-arm with something good but not necessarily expensive, like the Jelco 250. If the SL doesn't appeal to you much, you could still dump it without losing too much cash and go for a Pro-Ject or something similar. This is the modus operandi that I'm going to go for in my quest for a good TT...

Cheers!

 

[venkatcr]

Dont worry, stevieboy and Grubyhalo. right now my TT venture is still 6 months away. Right now I am doing up my music room and will be spending a decent amount on room acoustics. After that only will I look at a TT.

Grbuhalo, I will most probably buy a second hand TT to start with. I am not too good a modder, and will most probably buy a phono preamp, and connect it to my pre/power amp combination.

I did own a Dual TT with a Ortofon cartridge so I am not completely green as far as TTs go. I used to love that TT, and the album I have used most on that is Pink Floyd's Wall. If I remember right, the Dual was also belt driven but it used to sound wonderful.

The Jelco 250 at less than 15,000 sounds promising. I will keep that in mind.

Thanks guys.

Cheers

 

[grubyhalo]

...the album I have used most on that is Pink Floyd's Wall...

Venkat, PF is the main reason I am on a mission to get myself the best possible sound system I could. It is also one of the main reasons I'm trying to delve into the world of vinyl

Also, coming to the issue of modding and DIY, let me know if you would be interested in having someone build you a very well regarded tube phono-amp in Chennai. Also, Jelco would ship you the arm direct if you're interested.

On a different note, since you're in Chennai, I'm guessing you would be attending this...

 

[rsud]

any entry level tt will make you happy unless you're really really into vinyl to the extent of worrying about things like researching carts, cart tonearm combinations for resonance matching, plinth upgrading etc... otherwise just go for the first tt whose sound you like and start enjoying vinyl.

regards

Entry level audiophile turntables like the rega p1 / p2 don't require any more fuss than the technics to setup and maintain. Can be purchased as a complete kit including cartridge.

If you can exercise choice why settle for lesser sound quality?

 

[venkatcr]

Modding and DIY

I will certainly be interested. I will get back to you when I am ready.

On a different note, since you're in Chennai, I'm guessing you would be attending this...

I have attended GHANANJANI every year since the first year they started. This year I decided to skip it. The performances have, in my opinion, lost their charm. Last year itself I got bored with the lack of coordination in terms of the music they were playing. The problem is all these artists are legends in their own rights, and they hardly get time to practice together for the show. So they improvise on the stage which does not help.

Instead I went and enjoyed three hours of glorious singing by an upcoming Carnatic artists - TM Krishna. This was in my club.

Cheers

 

[Rajiv]

Also, coming to the issue of modding and DIY, let me know if you would be interested in having someone build you a very well regarded tube phono-amp in Chennai.

Hi grubyhalo,

I am interested in meeting a tube DIY person in Chennai.Please give me his contact details.

Regards
Rajiv

 

[grubyhalo]

Hi grubyhalo,

I am interested in meeting a tube DIY person in Chennai.Please give me his contact details.

Regards
Rajiv

Hi Rajiv,
You have a PM
Cheers!

 

[stevieboy]

Entry level audiophile turntables like the rega p1 / p2 don't require any more fuss than the technics to setup and maintain. Can be purchased as a complete kit including cartridge.

If you can exercise choice why settle for lesser sound quality?

well rsud the point is who is exercising the choice venkat has got both sides of the coin now its up to him to either buy the best he can or miss a good bet. you might think the rega is better than technics, i'd prefer an idler drive to them all! but then you'll also find guys who love the technics! so might as well leave venkat to make his own choices/mistakes.

regards