Don't buy anything in Audio without "Return" policy - Begin a movement in India

[BLASTO]

Let's start with your order -

Last I did any upgrade was in 2018 and no plans going forward.

You can try and start and experiment with your next order.

My point is, you will quickly realise it is not feasible in India with hifi which is highly subjective, even for components made within india. Let alone imported ones.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Last I did any upgrade was in 2018 and no plans going forward.

You can try and start and experiment with your next order.

My point is, you will quickly realise it is not feasible in India with hifi which is highly subjective, even for components made within india. Let alone imported ones.

I fully agree with you on this as I know some people in India would by an entire setup just 2 days before his sons birthday and just return the next day the event is over. No i am serious.

Guys working on bank's also know this quite well. Some citizens in our country are utterly shameless too. They purchase a new fancy car every 1 year and stop paying EMI from 3 months onwards. The maximum the bank can do is take his car back. So they start again and always have a brand new car without paying anything.

 

[ZzZzZ]

A funny analogy between Indian and western HiFi gear industry is to the usual marriage practices of respective region

Try before buy is still taboo in India while it's encouraged and usual in western world !!

In India most of the times cost of ownership is pseudo inflated while it's reasonable in western world !!

It's very costly and difficult to even think about upgrading here while it's relatively easy and well accepted in western world !!!

 

[manek]

Absolutely...
Don't buy anything New CURRENTLY because of OVERINFLATED Prices. Even though inflation is getting controlled, the dealers don't seem to be willing to pass on the benefits to the end user. For eg Fyne Audio LCR 300 was 16k earlier, now its 25k, has there been a 40% increase in Inflation??

and you may have also heard the ubiquitous “dollar rate has changed”. By 40% ???? and neither have duty structures changed. Also goods were probably bought when the dollar was friendlier with good discounts to dealer on procurement and they are now being sold on full MRP with current dollar rate as reference which is another angle to the game played and many more. And lately I also heard about someone trying to justify a crazy cost hike on a passive speaker on international chip shortage ! Ha ha ha !

 

[ZzZzZ]

and you may have also heard the ubiquitous “dollar rate has changed”. By 40% ???? and neither have duty structures changed. Also goods were probably bought when the dollar was friendlier with good discounts to dealer on procurement and they are now being sold on full MRP with current dollar rate as reference which is another angle to the game played and many more. And lately I also heard about someone trying to justify a crazy cost hike on a passive speaker on international chip shortage ! Ha ha ha !

And not to mention about the over inflated egos of some of indian HiFi dealers that they even refuse to attend or answer the phone calls of poor customer after gulping the advance payments. They take hefty advances (sometime even 100% of payable amounts) and then intentionally delay the delivery on the name of custom clearances. I would not like to take names here but some of the boutique HiFi gear indian dealers are too much irritating to deal with.

A thread could be made with reviews of indian HiFi dealers where users can post their first hand experience of buying gears from these dealer.

 

[manek]

And not to mention about the over inflated egos of some of indian HiFi dealers that they even refuse to attend or answer the phone calls of poor customer after gulping the advance payments. They take hefty advances (sometime even 100% of payable amounts) and then intentionally delay the delivery on the name of custom clearances. I would not like to take names here but some of the boutique HiFi gear indian dealers are too much irritating to deal with.

Probably one more reason this industry is imploding on itself…..

As a kid I remember 4 hifi shops within 5 mins walking distance from my residence and to add to that the friendly neighbourhood goods import artist(guess who I am refering to ) as well. Walk 15 minutes and one would find a few more shops. Today one doesnt find such abundance of hifi dealers. Secondly many dealers have tie-ups with interior decorators to setup HT equipment and that is now their lifeline. Selling hifi becomes so much of an involved process they rather just supply boxes to the interior designer.

 

[ZzZzZ]

We need a fair review thread along with cumulative rating system where the actual customer can post their recommendations and reviews about these HiFi dealers, this would certainly improve the attitude of these dealers towards the customers.

 

[DB1989]

Guys working on bank's also know this quite well. Some citizens in our country are utterly shameless too. They purchase a new fancy car every 1 year and stop paying EMI from 3 months onwards. The maximum the bank can do is take his car back. So they start again and always have a brand new car without paying anything.

Don't credit rating agencies downgrade their score?

In any case, the problem seems to be much more deep rooted.

 

[Nitin K]

For things to work both ways in India, the dealers and the consumers both need to be honest and sincere to work this out.

 

[Bloom@83]

Don't credit rating agencies downgrade their score?

In any case, the problem seems to be much more deep rooted.

No bank in their right mind will approve a loan to a defaulter.
And yes , you are right the problem is much more deep rooted.
There has to be first and foremost a culture of trust and accountability for such a thing to even be seriously considered for adoption other than the most niche of brands operating on word of mouth (like SF ). On this regard , IndiQ audio deserves praise for advertising their no questions asked return policy (although I’m not aware of any actual return experience ). Even not for big foreign brands where dealers are mostly unscrupulous , at least the Indian niche brands like AP, Rethm, Lyrita , Torvin should encourage return policies , given that it’s a success for IndiaQ.

 

[DB1989]

No bank in their right mind will approve a loan to a defaulter.

Never discount the ingenuity of the south east asian man.

And yes , you are right the problem is much more deep rooted.
There has to be first and foremost a culture of trust and accountability for such a thing to even be seriously considered for adoption other than the most niche of brands operating on word of mouth (like SF ). On this regard , IndiQ audio deserves praise for advertising their no questions asked return policy (although I’m not aware of any actual return experience ). Even not for big foreign brands where dealers are mostly unscrupulous , at least the Indian niche brands like AP, Rethm, Lyrita , Torvin should encourage return policies , given that it’s a success for IndiaQ.

Thats a great suggestion. Indian brands must take the lead in this aspect and in fact, this could become a major USP in addition to the performance of their product. Since they are catering to a rather niche clientele amongst what is already a niche(since brand awareness seems to be mostly limited to forum members and word of mouth), I daresay the incidence of the problems spoken about above would be minimal.

HPZ had a similar system when their operations were much smaller where they would loan you a demo unit for 7 days on payment against a security deposit of the full amount. It was this feature that drew me to HPZ and ultimately led to the purchase of the Chord Mojo (and many other pieces of equipment ever since). They deserve a truly special mention for outstanding customer support.

 

[Hari Iyer]

We are all only considering honest FMs in hfv community. Our country is huge and you have all types of people here. I myself can count 10+ of my known acquaintance who could be a probable return candidate without any reason. I can't recollect any in our hfv forum though.

 

[sand87ch]

I was speaking with FMs in Delhi and we discussed like large items like amplifier and speakers not having returns are ok. But small items like IC cables, power cables, speaker cables, DAC etc can easily be returned.

Also we discussed about an average Indian customer just for the heck of it purchase a cable use it for 2 weeks and return just for fun. This is the primary reason dealers don't offer returns in India. Because of our Indian psyche we don't deserve returns. Entirely my perspective.

yes this perspective is the sole reason.remember how return friendly amazon used to be earlier and how crappy they have become now in india.our abuse is the reason that we fail to get returns for genuine cases

 

[sandeepmohan]

We need to start a movement in India to NOT buy anything from anyone without a return policy printed in Invoice and accepted by dealer in India. Period.

Unless there are Government mandated laws, we are all sitting ducks to this situation.
The only other way is to build a relationship with a preferred audio dealer. Thats how I went about it, before buying any audio. It did limit my options as I had to buy everything from one dealer and not all the brands I wanted to try were available. I had the option to return the equipment if it did not work out, so I took that as a benefit. Honestly, way better than dealing with some dumb clown behind the phone lines at Amazon.

The other main issue is users not owning up, honesty. If I take something, damage it and return it to the dealer and say thats how they delivered it, thats not going to go down well with anyone. I have seen this happen at Pro Fx. They used to allow you take demo equipment home for trial without paying a dime. I don't think they offer this anymore due to mishandling of equipment. Its how I got to listen to the KEF iQ9 and a few other Polk Audio loudspeakers. I had them for days.

Now, if my kid punches the speaker dust cap, thats my responsibility. I don't cover it up and not inform Pro Fx of this.

Dealers will be more than happy for you to take equipment home and try it out. I'd see this as a sales incentive for them. There needs to be some responsibility from our side too. We are not very good about that. Until our attitudes change, the concept of Returns like the Developed World follows isn't going to to trickle down to us. Unfortunately.

 

[Yogesh]

If we need return policy, we will need to be ready to buy "Open Box" items at 100%. Another option would be re-stocking fee. Consumers will be at receiving end one way or other as dealers can't be expected to take a hit if one needs to return just because one doesn't like an item.

I am full in favour of return policy but consumer behaviour needs to be up to mark for it to be feasible.

 

[drkrack]

return just because one doesn't like an item.

JUST BECAUSE?
Liking the Gear is almost everything in hifi audio...
Even Mercedes and BMW offer test rides, audio Equipment are not that costlier & neither are they prone to accidents. Home Demo should be part of the Marketing budget, Currently in India, Many dealers don't offer showroom demo options for highend gear.

 

[Yogesh]

JUST BECAUSE?
Liking the Gear is almost everything in hifi audio...
Even Mercedes and BMW offer test rides, audio Equipment are not that costlier & neither are they prone to accidents. Home Demo should be part of the Marketing budget, Currently in India, Many dealers don't offer showroom demo options for highend gear.

Liking the gear is indeed everything, My point was will we buy open box items returned by others at full price? If NO, Will we accept re-stocking fee? If not, Will we be fine with the increased prices factored in for returns(abnormal pricing is a BIG grouse already for us)?

Yes, Home demo is best. It would be great if all dealers can offer it. It should be norm for fast moving gears. For Niche products, Whether our market be able absorb the cost remains to be seen.

 

[sand87ch]

Liking the gear is indeed everything, My point was will we buy open box items returned by others at full price? If NO, Will we accept re-stocking fee? If not, Will we be fine with the increased prices factored in for returns(abnormal pricing is a BIG grouse already for us)?

Yes, Home demo is best. It would be great if all dealers can offer it. It should be norm for fast moving gears. For Niche products, Whether our market be able absorb the cost remains to be seen.

home demo would be a good option but problem is you wont have dealers everywhere.open box in india..we cant trust it.people will return it with some issue and the dealer will sell it wven though he/she knows that and the person who buys it will be screwed

 

[manek]

Liking the gear is indeed everything, My point was will we buy open box items returned by others at full price? If NO, Will we accept re-stocking fee? If not, Will we be fine with the increased prices factored in for returns(abnormal pricing is a BIG grouse already for us)?

Yes, Home demo is best. It would be great if all dealers can offer it. It should be norm for fast moving gears. For Niche products, Whether our market be able absorb the cost remains to be seen.

Restocking fee maybe acceptable to the public but then once the seller has his re-stocking fee he should not sell the same at full retail. The general excuse given for a re-taped box is the box was opened at customs. Thats why there are open box buys at discounts and with full warranty right ?

BTW a few of us unsuspectingly may have received neatly re-packaged equipment(demo units, returned units, repaired units, etc) at full retail already. I know I have in the distant past. I was lucky I noticed, pointed it out and arrived at a solution that was mutually acceptable. Re-packaging is an art but possible.

I don't think returns will work in India sadly. Someone said it well earlier, both sides have to have good ethics to make this work.

Manek

 

[Hari Iyer]

You mean we should demand our rights as consumers?

You can try asking, but won't succeed for reasons mentioned earlier.