Eight Audio, Hyderabad

[Fantastic]

So total is about Rs 3260
That is the original cost so if one puts a margin of Rs 250

You must be kidding ! 250/3260 is 7.7% of the investment of 3260 !
You have forgotten the cost of procuring, communications, personal time , shipping etc. I'd bet that even if he sold it for 5,000/- he wouldn't end up finally making a profit of 10% ! Why do that ? Just invest it and sit back and get your money by doing nothing !

Do you think that companies showing 10% profits actually made only that much ? All the rest was spent on running their systems and building up assets , being 'comfortable etc. It's only the left over that's 10% !

 

[greenhorn]

you guys think the world runs on the cost plus model of pricing?

That guys may be working on the current startup mantra - sell at a loss to acquire customers and good reviews, look at profitability later

 

[venkatcr]

Look, let us not start cursing someone and calling him names before seeing what he has to offer. If we can get a 50-100 watt amplifier for somewhere around 5K, what do we lose. I am going to look at the feasibility of the company, it's financial status and all that before I move forward.

In large scale manufacture, there is a lot of margin. You just have to get to that size. Sometimes you can cut costs by nearly 50-75% when you talk in terms of 1000s of pieces. How do you think PI sells for $35? It is the numbers that matter. In my own work where I developed embedded hardware, I am looking at wide price variations of components when I talk numbers with the suppliers.

All that aside, the product will be tested and proven. I will ship a few pieces to a few members, and then we can start arguing.

Till then let us be patient.

Thanks

 

[venkatcr]

Have just received images of what they call their new premium amplifier. Looks like a power amp to me. Have asked for details.

Cheers

 

[arunkvivek]

I would suggest that you inspect the existing QC process in place on basic stuff like if the signal from both channels have same strength, if all the amps created with same components have output in similar range etc.

I have a greedy/selfish offer to make: I would love to buy the initial prototype if you would replace it with the refined version after the improvements are achieved.. There might be more members interested to spend if you are ready to provide such a coverage. This way you can pool in some decent working capital from interested FMs and see through the go live of the project. Advantage is that you need not wait for feedback and fine tuning, to sell the initial pieces. Working capital would keep the SCM machinery running.

Improvement being a continuous process, you should focus on achieving minimum scale to have a smooth running inventory cycle; refinement of the product would eventually stabilize. The customers are not going to complain if they get one or two free upgrade, or upgrade at a concessional rate.

 

[venkatcr]

I would suggest that you inspect the existing QC process in place on basic stuff like if the signal from both channels have same strength, if all the amps created with same components have output in similar range etc.

I will be visiting the factory and meeting with the people. I will see what is happening there.

I have a greedy/selfish offer to make: I would love to buy the initial prototype if you would replace it with the refined version after the improvements are achieved.. There might be more members interested to spend if you are ready to provide such a coverage. This way you can pool in some decent working capital from interested FMs and see through the go live of the project. Advantage is that you need not wait for feedback and fine tuning, to sell the initial pieces. Working capital would keep the SCM machinery running.

I am going to spend my own money for the initial analysis. Once I am satisfied the product can be offered to members, we will see how to move forward. When I move to product improvement in terms of cabinet and components, I will certainly come back to the members.

Improvement being a continuous process, you should focus on achieving minimum scale to have a smooth running inventory cycle; refinement of the product would eventually stabilize. The customers are not going to complain if they get one or two free upgrade, or upgrade at a concessional rate.

Let us see. It is too early to build dreams. If things works out well, we will see how to move forward. Maybe a few of us could get together and brainstorm.

Cheers

 

[pnreddy]

I will be visiting the factory and meeting with the people. I will see what is happening there.



I am going to spend my own money for the initial analysis. Once I am satisfied the product can be offered to members, we will see how to move forward. When I move to product improvement in terms of cabinet and components, I will certainly come back to the members.



Let us see. It is too early to build dreams. If things works out well, we will see how to move forward. Maybe a few of us could get together and brainstorm.

Cheers

I live about 15-20 kilometers from their place. I could go and see their setup. Do they have the amplifier that you requested ready? If so, I could test it at their place. I am no expert on amplifiers, but if it sounds OK, I could buy it and send it to you for eavaluation.

 

[kcnanand]

I was planning to build an amp from them and enquired for the same. A LM3886+TDA7294 2.1 setup. cost quoted:

Completely assembled amp - 12000/-
Specification's
*2 channel lm3886 premium parallel amp with tone control and 15volts crc PSU
* tda7294 subamp with ELF v.1 crossover (separate input)
* high quality cabinet, switch, knobs amd gold plated output and RCA connecters
Amp cabinet separately -3300/-

The cabinet photo in this thread earlier is the cabinet mentioned for 3300/-. Not yet decided as the tried and tested Norge will be cheaper?

 

[stereoboyindia]

I was planning to build an amp from them and enquired for the same. A LM3886+TDA7294 2.1 setup. cost quoted:

Completely assembled amp - 12000/-
Specification's
*2 channel lm3886 premium parallel amp with tone control and 15volts crc PSU
* tda7294 subamp with ELF v.1 crossover (separate input)
* high quality cabinet, switch, knobs amd gold plated output and RCA connecters
Amp cabinet separately -3300/-

The cabinet photo in this thread earlier is the cabinet mentioned for 3300/-. Not yet decided as the tried and tested Norge will be cheaper?

Norge will definitely cheaper in price but excellent sounding amp at budget. Any chip you mention will never surpass the discrete amps.

at 12k i think you will get the Reference Mosfet amp from Norge.

Look, let us not start cursing someone and calling him names before seeing what he has to offer. If we can get a 50-100 watt amplifier for somewhere around 5K, what do we lose. I am going to look at the feasibility of the company, it's financial status and all that before I move forward.

In large scale manufacture, there is a lot of margin. You just have to get to that size. Sometimes you can cut costs by nearly 50-75% when you talk in terms of 1000s of pieces. How do you think PI sells for $35? It is the numbers that matter. In my own work where I developed embedded hardware, I am looking at wide price variations of components when I talk numbers with the suppliers.

All that aside, the product will be tested and proven. I will ship a few pieces to a few members, and then we can start arguing.

Till then let us be patient.

Thanks

Look at the capacitors they are not original Elna Caps. What else I can say. Make sure you dont connect these amps to your beloved speakers. Im sure it might have bias instabilities in their discrete amplifiers.

lm3886 as another FM mentioned it seems the routing is not done right as some of the basic principles of decoupling positioning and also look at the coupling capacitors.

At that price you can easily get Norge or spend another 5k more you get an entry Marantz discrete amplifier.

Its too expensive to buy such duplicate parts at that 12k price.

 

[venkatcr]

Norge will definitely cheaper in price but excellent sounding amp at budget. Any chip you mention will never surpass the discrete amps.

at 12k i think you will get the Reference Mosfet amp from Norge.

As I said before my friend, stop jumping the gun. I will test the amp well, maybe burn a few speakers before I approve it.

Look at the capacitors they are not original Elna Caps. What else I can say. Make sure you dont connect these amps to your beloved speakers. I m sure it might have bias instabilities in their discrete amplifiers.

You have it on authority these are not genuine? Do have a test document from some test site?

As I said, what we are doing is preliminary. So don't start jumping the gun.

 

[skdas]

I really appreciate your Plan.My hole hearted support to you and the group.

 

[venkatcr]

@Afj, PNReddy,

Thank you so much for offering to help out. What I want done initially is quite simple.

1. Visit Eight Audio, and listen to their amps. Please take you own music across multiple genres. You might need to check with them what players they have and take music accordingly.

2. I have few audiophile tracks that I will lend to you.

3. Check with them if they are ready for some changes to the components based on our inputs. Check with them what kind of numbers they are looking for to be ready to make these changes.

4. Check with them if they are ready to insert a Android based remote control. I will provide the complete circuitry for that.

5. Check with them if they are ready to service the products. I am looking at at least a ten year agreement.

6. If they ask for numbers, talk to them about the game plane I have explained below.

7. Tell them to see if they can explain some of the issues raised by stereoboyindia, in particular to the genuineness of the components.

8. In general get a feel of the company. Are they in for the long haul? Do they have a passion for what they are doing? Do they understand what music is and do they really like music?

My Business Plan
-------------------

What I am looking at is a simple 2 channel amp+speaker that can come at low prices but one that provide genuine quality and excellent sound. The system must by plug and play, look well made, and we must provide absolute trust to the buyer for 10 years. He must be able to use it without worries and enjoy music.

I want to extend the initial products to have the following features:

1. Be easy to use for whole home audio using something like the Chromecast Audio.
2. Deliver a low cost DAC that can be used.
3. Maybe insert a low cost DAC that will become part of the amp.
4. Insert a phono premap later.
5. Be capable of getting music from inside a network.
6. Have a Internet tuner.
7. Be controllable from a Android / Apple ecosystem.

Cheers

 

[keith_correa]

Venkat, may I also suggest DNM audio from Mumbai? They've been around for a while - I think the owner is Shyam Bajaj's nephew. They know their stuff, have speakers, amps and I'm sure would be willing to build to spec.

 

[venkatcr]

Venkat, may I also suggest DNM audio from Mumbai?

I know DNM quite well. I actually spoke to Dilip about 2 weeks ago.

I have used their tube amp and was very impressed with the sound. The tube amp is just a Chinese import, and I am looking at modifying it extensively to improve the sound. It was far better than their 2 channel amp that I also auditioned.

I have no issues with talking to them. My only worry is that they are already commercially successful and may not be interested in the price/numbers ratios we are looking at. Secondly they will be worried about creating lower priced competition for themselves. After all it will not take long for the news to spread that DNM is an OEM to another product range.

Let me go a round with Eight Audio, and then we will see. If you or anyone else in Mumbai know DNM well, there is no harm in talking to them on my behalf. The previous post has my 'business' plan so to say.

Cheers

 

[keith_correa]

You have it on authority these are not genuine? Do have a test document from some test site?

As I said, what we are doing is preliminary. So don't start jumping the gun.

He's comparing apples to oranges. He's comparing the Elna for audio series of caps from theaudiocrafts website against the LP series from 8audio's website and is drawing conclusions.

It was far better than their 2 channel amp that I also auditioned.

Which one did you audition? Am curious. He had 40WPC amp that a friend bought a couple of years ago for 5K and it sounded quite good for the price.

My only worry is that they are already commercially successful and may not be interested in the price/numbers ratios we are looking at.

Commercially successful in the 2 channel world? I think not.

If you or anyone else in Mumbai know DNM well, there is no harm in talking to them on my behalf.

Dilip gets my goat. He comes across as a "know it all" and since I'm also one - we repel!

 

[arunkvivek]

It is too early to build dreams.
Cheers

Guess, I got too excited and felt the urge to contribute the cliched two cents too early . All the best...waiting for further updates!!

 

[venkatcr]

Which one did you audition? Am curious. He had 40WPC amp that a friend bought a couple of years ago for 5K and it sounded quite good for the price.

I auditioned the av-400a. This sells for some 20K.

Commercially successful in the 2 channel world? I think not.

Not necessarily in 2 channel. They distribute and sell a lot of their products.

Dilip gets my goat. He comes across as a "know it all" and since I'm also one - we repel!

. Ha Ha. I must tell you this story. Shhhh. It is top secret. I caught Dilip in Goa where he was holidaying. I was asking him if he could change the volume and source selector pots in the av-400a if I buy the amp from him. He said not needed. If the pots are making a noise, power down the system, and rapidly twist the pots clockwise and counter clock wise for 10 minutes. When you power up again, they will be perfect.

I put the phone down scratching my head. If things were that easy, what the hell is Alps doing?

Cheers

 

[doors666]

. Ha Ha. I must tell you this story. Shhhh. It is top secret. I caught Dilip in Goa where he was holidaying. I was asking him if he could change the volume and source selector pots in the av-400a if I buy the amp from him. He said not needed. If the pots are making a noise, power down the system, and rapidly twist the pots clockwise and counter clock wise for 10 minutes. When you power up again, they will be perfect.

I put the phone down scratching my head. If things were that easy, what the hell is Alps doing?

Cheers

I have seen this myself. I bought a sony mini compo system in the 90s, the pot was making scratching noises, my friend knew this trick and he did it and it did fix the noise issue. I was also scratching my head:lol:

it might work if there is some issue with the pot. i think its due to some dust accumulation on the resistance track in open construction pots that goes away when operated like that. scratching noise also comes if there is dc across the pot. Good pots have other advantages, long life, much better channel matching, sealed construction, better quality resistance etc..

 

[keith_correa]

. Ha Ha. I must tell you this story. Shhhh. It is top secret. I caught Dilip in Goa where he was holidaying. I was asking him if he could change the volume and source selector pots in the av-400a if I buy the amp from him. He said not needed. If the pots are making a noise, power down the system, and rapidly twist the pots clockwise and counter clock wise for 10 minutes. When you power up again, they will be perfect.

I put the phone down scratching my head. If things were that easy, what the hell is Alps doing?

Cheers

My friend's budget for an amp was 5K which we reached when we bought the amp from Dilip. I then built him a pair of MLTL's and on hooking them up we realized that the tracking of the amp volume pot was quite "off". We spoke to Dilip over the phone - he asked us to bring back the amp to his workshop. We did that, hooked it up there with Dilip's technician present and showed the problem to his technician who agreed that it WAS a problem. Dilip then strolled in, "heard" the problem and went completely off track asking what speakers we were using and on me stating that it was a DIY effort, asked about the drivers, looked them up on the internet and started spouting "wisdom" on sensitivity and driver/crossover quality etc etc. Basically he went completely OT but was sort of leading towards the premise that the problem was in the speakers. When I firmly brought up the wide tracking error of his pot, he got needlessly aggressive and started asking what we expected out of a 5K amp and why he put the balance control to mitigate exactly that sort of problem blah blah. We thanked him and ran away. hyeah:

 

[venkatcr]

he got needlessly aggressive and started asking what we expected out of a 5K amp and why he put the balance control to mitigate exactly that sort of problem blah blah. We thanked him and ran away. hyeah:

And you WANT me to work with him??

Cheers