Experience of home demo

[kamalgaur]

The folks at ProFX were kind enough to come over today with the Denon X1200W, Floorstanding RTi A5, FXi A6 bipole surround, CSi A4 center and the 660 Pro subwoofer.

Somehow, however, the experience was underwhelming. The soundstage was all jumbled up, and there was not enough clarity in the song vocals. They said that I need to add carpeting to the living room, but I'm not a fan of carpets at all.

Now I'm not sure if the problem was due to the fact that I played FLAC audio on VLC on laptop through HDMI, or whether the setup was not calibrated for the room, or whether the speakers themselves have flaws that make the audio sound poor.

I heard the Dali Zensor 7 yday at a dealers, and that was definitely sounding much crisper and fuller than my experience at home with the Polks today.

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[Naturelover]

Not a good idea to start a new thread for every step you take. It's confusing and FMs wouldn't know what's been said earlier. Better if you had continued in an earlier thread.

The room is widely said to be the biggest component of your audio system. You have to tackle that before you can get the sound you got at the dealer where the room is properly treated. You will need to do some research on this.
Do give details of your room so people can help.

 

[kamalgaur]

Not a good idea to start a new thread for every step you take. It's confusing and FMs wouldn't know what's been said earlier. Better if you had continued in an earlier thread.

The room is widely said to be the biggest component of your audio system. You have to tackle that before you can get the sound you got at the dealer where the room is properly treated. You will need to do some research on this.
Do give details of your room so people can help.

Valid point about fresh threads, will keep it in mind going forward.

As for my room, it's 18 x 18 ft, with the 10 ft at rear left of the room open extending into the dining area, which is an additional 10 x 12.

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[sachin.shiva]

Anyhow it is good beginning for your search .Profx guys ,did they run audyssey set up?
no carpets, nothing is required .For next demo also u should try at home only, not at demo showroom ,because your house is not acoustically treated.

 

[MaSh]

Another new thread? Can the mods club all the different threads into a single one?

It's interesting to know that pro fx did a home demo. Did they charge anything extra for it? Room plays a Major role when it comes to sound and I would totally support their suggestion for a carpet.

Could you mention all the setup steps such as speaker placements, positioning, calibration, etc they executed before starting the demo?

MaSh

 

[kaptan]

Did they run audyssey setup before demo? Did they place the sub by using crawl method?

 

[kamalgaur]

Another new thread? Can the mods club all the different threads into a single one?

It's interesting to know that pro fx did a home demo. Did they charge anything extra for it? Room plays a Major role when it comes to sound and I would totally support their suggestion for a carpet.

Could you mention all the setup steps such as speaker placements, positioning, calibration, etc they executed before starting the demo?

MaSh

No, they didn't charge anything for the home demo.

Unfortunately, they also did not do anything for speaker placement. They kept the tower speakers 3 ft away from the front wall (18 ft wide) and each 4 ft away from the side walls for a distance of 10 ft between the speakers. The subwoofer was placed right next to the front left floorstanding tower. The surround speakers were kept 11 ft in front of the tower speakers, approx 1 foot away from the side walls.

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[MaSh]

No, they didn't charge anything for the home demo.

Unfortunately, they also did not do anything for speaker placement. They kept the tower speakers 3 ft away from the front wall (18 ft wide) and each 4 ft away from the side walls for a distance of 10 ft between the speakers. The subwoofer was placed right next to the front left floorstanding tower. The surround speakers were kept 11 ft in front of the tower speakers, approx 1 foot away from the side walls.

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Oh okay. That is a good thing.

Regarding placing the speakers, would you have placed the speakers in those positions for regular usage? They did not run any calibration via Audyssey or Manually?

What is your shortlist now?

MaSh

 

[kamalgaur]

I would have kept the surround speakers in the same position. Floorstanders maybe a little more apart (12 ft apart instead of 10 ft) and slightly closer to the front wall (2 ft instead of 3 ft). The subwoofer I would want to place at the best location (but in the left half of the room) based on a sub crawl. They didn't end up running any calibration, unfortunately.

I've dropped the Polk RTiA5s from my shortlist, and currently am open to -
1 - Polk RTiA7 + center + surround + Polk 660
2 - Dali Zensor 7 + center + surround + Polk 660
3 - Dali Zensor 5 + center + surround + Polk 660
4 - Jamo S626 5.0 package + Polk 660
5 - Jamo S628 5.0 package + Polk 660

The reason why the Polk 660 makes all the lists is because it's got a 12-inch woofer, goes all the way down to 20 Hz, and is well priced in the market at 32K against a 41K MRP.

Of the above, I've heard the Dali Zensor 7, and I quite enjoyed the soundstage in the demo. I plan to experience options 1, 3, 4 and 5 this Saturday, and hopefully will be able to assess which floorstanders are the best.

Another doubt that I have is for surround speakers, should I be looking at bookshelves, or bipole speakers? The placement of surround speakers will be slightly ahead (2 ft) of my seating position to my left and right, so bipoles do make sense in that sense.

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[Naturelover]

Is this an apartment or an independent house? The 660 will probably have neighbours come knocking. Someone recently had neighbours complain with the 550 so much so that he wanted to sell it off!
In a room that size, you might be better off with two smaller subs for more even bass.

 

[kamalgaur]

Apartment.
The 660 should hopefully suffice and not get too loud, and to your point, if it's already too much, don't want to make it worse by going for 2 subs

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[MaSh]

Apartment.
The 660 should hopefully suffice and not get too loud, and to your point, if it's already too much, don't want to make it worse by going for 2 subs

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I would agree with Naturelover, 660 could get too much in an apartment. Subs dont get loud literally, the boom seems to travel further than other higher frequencies, especially though the apartment corridors and walls. Bigger the sub, more the travel. Two smaller subs on the other hand would better fill your room without travelling further down the corridor to say hallo to the neighbors.

I experienced this with a Bose Freespace subwoofer. I was fed up with it cos I could not hear a thing in my room and would turn it up to the max. One day when the system was playing I happened to go to a flat which was almost at the other end of the corridor with a flat in-between. Guess what I found my Sub playing there. No matter what I tried with putting mats under it, changing it position, etc. nothing worked. Had to sell it off and get a smaller Boston Acoustics 8" sub which played happily in my room for over a year.

MaSh

 

[kamalgaur]

Haha, that's definitely interesting to know. The possible upside, in my situation is that, the sub will be in my living room, on the side of the room that connects to the rest of the apartment. The adjacent neighbour on this floor has a mirror imaged apartment layout, which means the other wall of the living room is common with their living room, and their other rooms are further away beyond their living room.

Not sure how the sub booms pass through the floor, but thankfully I'm on the ground floor, with only the basement parking below the apartment.

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[kamalgaur]

As planned, I drove around Bangalore to experience the following setups -

1 - Polk RTiA7 + center + surround + subwoofer
2 - Dali Zensor 7 + center + surround + subwoofer
3 - Dali Zensor 5 + center + surround + subwoofer
4 - Jamo S626 5.0 package + subwoofer
5 - Jamo S628 5.0 package + subwoofer

First stop was ProFX on MG Road to listen to the Polk RTiA7s, and the experience wasn't much better than the earlier Polks I'd heard. They also wanted me to listen to a Cabasse setup, which I did, which again didn't impress me much. In both cases, the soundstage was all mixed up, and all speakers were playing vocals, so maybe the source they used wasn't a proper 5.1.

Note to self: Check USB drive before heading out for demos - I thought I had music on it, but none of the receivers found any audio files.

Next stop was Cinebels in Vasanth Nagar where I heard the Jamo S626 and the Jamo S628 5.0 packages paired up with a Marantz 6010 receiver. They were impressive, but not as exhilarating as I was hoping for. The soundstage was better than the Polks, but still felt like the audio was coming from the lower half of the front wall. Also, I wasn't expecting 4" drivers on the S626 and S628, and although they sounded adequate and loud, I wasn't too sure if I should sign up for 4" drivers for an 18x18 ft living room connected to a 10"x12" dining hall.

Last stop was the HT store at JP Nagar, and for the 2nd weekend in a row, I was able to listen to the Zensor 7 floorstander, Zensor Vokal center and Wharfedale surround setup, and I was floored. The soundstage was clear and warm, and the music felt it was coming through from the entire area in front of me - entire front wall, front left, front right, front top - everywhere.

The good thing is I'm told that the Denon X1200w is sufficient to drive the Zensor 5 or the Zensor 7, so that's pretty settled. I don't think I find too much value in spending 17K extra for the differences between the X1200w and X2200w.

Unfortunately, they didn't have the Zensor 5 available for demo, and don't expect to have it either. I was thinking I'll go in for the Denon X1200w and the Zensor 5s, but I wouldn't want to go in blind and buy the Zensor 5s without seeing/listening to them.

So the Q on my mind now is - knowing that the Zensor 5s have the same signature as the Zensor 7s, and knowing that the Zensor 5s will probably reach the volume I will ever listen to, and that the X1200w will be able to drive them there, should I go in for the Zensor 5 or the Zensor 7?

I hope there's no difference in sound quality or warmth, and the smaller drivers in the Zensor 5 only impact the volume levels?

 

[raghupb]

First stop was ProFX on MG Road to listen to the Polk RTiA7s, and the experience wasn't much better than the earlier Polks I'd heard. They also wanted me to listen to a Cabasse setup, which I did, which again didn't impress me much. In both cases, the soundstage was all mixed up, and all speakers were playing vocals, so maybe the source they used wasn't a proper 5.1.

ProFx usually peddles KEF after Polks. Surprised they did not suggest this.
All speakers on vocals is confusing, the rendition will sound dismembered.
Last time I was there (a few years ago), they did have a DVD-A recording of Porcupine Tree's "In Absentia". This is a true 5.1 recording.
Tracks "Blackest Eyes" and "Trains" were wonderfully rendered through a Denon/KEF-Q combo.
You are better off carrying your own music, since familiarity matters during an audition.
Good luck with your system hunt!

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[mshifi]

Dali zensor7 is a 3way speaker compared to zensor5 which is a 2.5way. Would make a difference

 

[kamalgaur]

Dali zensor7 is a 3way speaker compared to zensor5 which is a 2.5way. Would make a difference

Actually, they're all 2-way speakers. Go on the Dali website to the Zensor 7 page and have a look at the user manual - the PDF mentions 2-way for all Zensor models.

 

[tuff]

Zensor 5 has 5and 1/4" drivers whilst Zensor 7 has 7" drivers. Extended low end on the Zensor 7 according to the specs. 43hz vs 40 hz.

 

[BassHead]

Hi Kamalgaur,

How much were you quoted for the Zensors 5 and 7?

 

[kamalgaur]

Hi Kamalgaur,

How much were you quoted for the Zensors 5 and 7?

As per the dealer,

MRP of the Zensor 5 is 57000
MRP of the Zensor 7 is 72000

My online research has shown that the precise prices are actually like -
Zensor 5 -> 56900 (-100)
Zensor 7 -> 69900 (-2100)

I'm in the process of negotiating a 15% discount on MRP.