First Experience with Projectors (Vivibright, Egate, Epson)

[NiteRider]

I wouldn't be using 3D initially.. But will check out at some stage..

I wasn't referring to the projector's 3D feature. I meant watching 3D in cinema halls. If you don't find that comfortable, then your eyes may be sensitive and so you should be more careful.

 

[danielnaveen2003]

Just an FYI for you guys LED DLP projectors don't use a colour wheel. Rainbow effect hardly exists even when taking a video of the screen

 

[NiteRider]

Just an FYI for you guys LED DLP projectors don't use a colour wheel. Rainbow effect hardly exists even when taking a video of the screen

Thanks, I didn't know that. But on further research, I found this on the AVSForum:

"LED DLP doesn't have a color wheel, but flashes the LEDs one after the other to get RGB colors to the DLP chip. The effect to me seems like a good 6x color wheel. So, maybe an equivalent would be 7x or 8x, but it is still visible if you are looking for it.

Of course, single chip DLP can't show 3 channels at once with a single chip setup. 3-chip DLP and 3-chip LCD don't have RBE issues because they show all three colors at once instead of one color at a time like single chip DLP."

So even LED-DLP will do the "flashing" which is what I meant by "invisible flickering". 1-chip DLP will fool your eyes into thinking that the 3 images you saw are just one image. That may not bother many, but it may cause eye strain to some. My problem is not how the picture will look, but if it causes some eye strain even if the picture appears properly without any rainbow effect.

Here's some more info about 1-chip vs 3-chip DLP and why 6x wheel speed is better while 3-chip DLP is best and similar to 3-LCD:

Color wheel DLP | projectorjunkies

 

[danielnaveen2003]

Thanks, I didn't know that. But on further research, I found this on the AVSForum:



So even LED-DLP will do the "flashing" which is what I meant by "invisible flickering". 1-chip DLP will fool your eyes into thinking that the 3 images you saw are just one image. That may not bother many, but it may cause eye strain to some. My problem is not how the picture will look, but if it causes some eye strain even if the picture appears properly without any rainbow effect.

Here's some more info about 1-chip vs 3-chip DLP and why 6x wheel speed is better while 3-chip DLP is best and similar to 3-LCD:

Color wheel DLP | projectorjunkies

Yes they have 3 banks of LED's for RGB, as DLP is technically a micro mirror tech it only has intensity not colour, colour is from the light source. The main reason for rainbow was that the colour wheels were slow, even the RGBRGB colour wheels weren't fast enough for some people's eye particularly in Black and White scenes. The LED driver TI designed is plenty fast for you to not notice the rainbow effect.

 

[rajesh srinivas]

hi, elangoes,

Is Xgimi H1 is the only led projector (1920x1080 native) but comes with speakers and andriod os/Processor, are there better models just the led projector without speakers/os/processor in this price range 80-1lakh,what about warranty and service issues.???

Is Xgimi H1 1Chip or 3 chip DLP kindly clarify,,

Seems led projector technology is improving day by day..is it the right time to buy now,or wait for 4k led projector..

Do all the led projector available are DLP 3-chip or even 3Chip LCD available..

thanks
rajesh

 

[elangoas]

hi, elangoes,

Is Xgimi H1 is the only led projector (1920x1080 native) but comes with speakers and andriod os/Processor, are there better models just the led projector without speakers/os/processor in this price range 80-1lakh,

LG PF1500W (web OS - $850 or less) & AAXA M6 ($599) are other FHD-LED PJ Models..

But there are plenty of 1280 x 800 LED PJ for some good prices..

Here is a thread to collect some inputs - http://www.hifivision.com/home-theatre-projectors-screens/68266-planning-led-projector-suggestions-please.html

what about warranty and service issues.???

Xgimi H1 has a distrbutor in India.. So warranty/paid service shouldn't be an issue.. It is abt 80K with dealer and 1 yr warranty..

Is Xgimi H1 1Chip or 3 chip DLP kindly clarify,,

From what i know, Xgimi H1 is 1 chip DLP, powered by RGB LED..

One of our FM @danielnaveen2003 has it, has shared his experience here - http://www.hifivision.com/home-theatre-projectors-screens/66822-my-review-xgimi-h1.html

Seems led projector technology is improving day by day.

Yes.. It is a good progress..Lens shift feature which are aval on mainstream PJ, is not aval on LED PJ.. So not much placement flexibility..

is it the right time to buy now,or wait for 4k led projector..

We have just started to get some FHD-LED models, guess more sophisticated 4K (affordable) might be sometime later.. Until then, FHD models should keep you happy..

Do all the led projector available are DLP 3-chip or even 3Chip LCD available..

Almost all LED PJ are DLP 1 chip models..

 

[NiteRider]

However, with regard to colours, Epson is more natural while Egate will feel like watching in black & white (used a light-yellow wall, may be better on a white screen, but not tested).

To expand further on my own comment above, I was going through the specs of Egate P513/P531 and found this:

With more than 16k colors and 2000 :1 contrast the image quality from high quality LCD panel is unparallel in the industry to give you crystal clear image and detailing.

This is probably why I did not like Vivibright/Egate's lower colour reproduction even before trying an Epson model which has great colours (Epson has other issues too as explained earlier). The cheaper Chinese/Indian models (around Rs.20,000) have a colour reproduction capacity of 16,000 (16k) while the lowest model of Epson has 1 billion.

I would prefer watching a sharp, high contrast and colourful picture on my TV with all lights on and so I am out of projectors for now... till I have the time and budget to do a proper projector setup as explained in my first post.

This is my personal experience and it can be different for others. There can be no way to be sure what type of setup will work for you till you give it a shot.

If you can get your selected projector model or a close one to it for testing from a friend, then open the same video clip from YouTube or your local files in a TV/computer and compare it with the colours created by the projector. But keep in mind that a proper setup is required for a projector to really enjoy it (see my first post).

Hope it helps someone who is getting into projectors but confused by the various models at different price points as I was.

It depends on your expectations, preferences, budget, available time, seating and wall/screen position in your room, eye strain etc as explained earlier. Don't get attracted by the low price of entry alone as the other factors also matter.

 

[shibashis]

This is probably why I did not like Vivibright/Egate's lower colour reproduction even before trying an Epson model which has great colours (Epson has other issues too as explained earlier). The cheaper Chinese/Indian models (around Rs.20,000) have a colour reproduction capacity of 16,000 (16k) while the lowest model of Epson has 1 billion.

I would prefer watching a sharp, high contrast and colourful picture on my TV with all lights on and so I am out of projectors for now... till I have the time and budget to do a proper projector setup as explained in my first post.

This is my personal experience and it can be different for others. There can be no way to be sure what type of setup will work for you till you give it a shot.

In another thread I was at pains to make these points and I was accused of pointless argument and biased opinion. As it can be seen it is a fact that cheaper Chinese alternatives have their limitations and there is no way around it.

 

[elangoas]

This is probably why I did not like Vivibright/Egate's lower colour reproduction even before trying an Epson model which has great colours (Epson has other issues too as explained earlier).

Right..The inexpensive one are limited on colour's..

Jus thinking, what if the Egate P513/531 had a better LCD panel, say IPS LTPS screen (or) Sharp LCD panels.. Guess, that would help achieve better colour's..

The cheaper Chinese/Indian models (around Rs.20,000) have a colour reproduction capacity of 16,000 (16k) while the lowest model of Epson has 1 billion.

It would be very interesting to pit the Epson x31 Vs Egate K9 and objectively evaluate..Almost same price.. Different way of projection tech..

 

[NiteRider]

As it can be seen it is a fact that cheaper Chinese alternatives have their limitations and there is no way around it.

I think it depends on the preferences of each person. Some would get stuck on the shortcomings while some would be willing to give up everything else for a bigger screen size. I was and still am tempted to do that.

But I know that I will get the itch to upgrade on the first day and spend all my spare time and money on that which I didn't want to do at this point.

I took a step back and reevaluated my priorities (which was quite hard to do). I can't go "all in" into projectors at this time as it wasn't my highest priority. So it was just wrong timing for me.

I see that you have the Epson EB-U32 which has 3200 lumens. Even in its Eco-Cinema mode, the brightness is over 1400 lumens which is too bright for my eyes. The light also reflects off my room's light-coloured ceiling and walls and makes the picture washed out, specially the blacks. How did you handle that? Can you post some pics of your setup?

 

[NiteRider]

Right..The inexpensive one are limited on colour's..

Jus thinking, what if the Egate P513/531 had a better LCD panel, say IPS LTPS screen (or) Sharp LCD panels.. Guess, that would help achieve better colour's..

It would be very interesting to pit the Epson x31 Vs Egate K9 and objectively evaluate..Almost same price.. Different way of projection tech..

Re: LCD: That's right. A better panel would make things better. But that would makes things costlier for them too. However, as a company, I don't think they are looking for innovation. The same models have been running for years with very slow upgrades.

Their website Egate.pro has also shut down and being redirected to their generic business listing site at Egateinfotel.com. I told them about it but it hasn't been fixed since long.

Epson has 3-LCD, which means, they have 3 panels. One each for Red, Green, Blue. Mixing these primary colours is what makes all the other colours except black. You have to provide your own blacks by keeping the room dark as no projector can project "black".


Re: Egate K9: I have already commented on why I wouldn't spend over 30k on that when the next higher Epson model EB-W04 is around 40k at the same resolution (1280x800). The bulbs in Epson last quite long and their replacement is also cheap if needed. I am not too much of a fan of Epson too, but I have to see that as the next upgrade over Egate P513/P531.

 

[elangoas]

Re: LCD: That's right. A better panel would make things better. But that would makes things costlier for them too.

It is a 5.8 inch LCD panel inside these PJ.. If the mobile companies can cram 2560 x 1440 in a 5inch mobile display, then higher resolution too should be possible in these PJ..

However, as a company, I don't think they are looking for innovation. The same models have been running for years with very slow upgrades.

Their website Egate.pro has also shut down and being redirected to their generic business listing site at Egateinfotel.com. I told them about it but it hasn't been fixed since long.

If they aren't ready to update the webpage based on customer feedback, they expecting innovation from them is expensive..

It is really disheartening to see not even one company could do different things..

Epson has 3-LCD, which means, they have 3 panels. One each for Red, Green, Blue. Mixing these primary colours is what makes all the other colours except black. You have to provide your own blacks by keeping the room dark as no projector can project "black".

Right.. 3-LCD panels powered by one lamp..

Re: Egate K9: I have already commented on why I wouldn't spend over 30k on that when the next higher Epson model EB-W04 is around 40k at the same resolution (1280x800).

Nope.. I didn't urge you to consider Egate K9.. Was only saying Epson X31 Vs Egate K9 would be a good comparison..

The bulbs in Epson last quite long and their replacement is also cheap if needed. I am not too much of a fan of Epson too, but I have to see that as the next upgrade over Egate P513/P531

The Egate K9 has RGB (induvidual) -LED (Osram lightning) with the DLP chip..The projection technology is different..

3-LCD panel powered by single lamp Vs individual RGB-LED.. I honestly have no idea which is better.. Just curious..

 

[NiteRider]

Nope.. I didn't urge you to consider Egate K9.. Was only saying Epson X31 Vs Egate K9 would be a good comparison..

I know, but no one should do that comparison considering the difference in quality and brand. Egate is still good but only as a cheaper alternative (under Rs.20k) to get a taste of what projectors can do.

3-LCD panel powered by single lamp Vs individual RGB-LED.. I honestly have no idea which is better.. Just curious..

When comparing Egate vs Epson for over Rs.30k, it isn't about DLP vs LCD. It is about brand and quality. You will be blown away by the colours and brightness once you try out any Epson model. If you want to compare DLP vs LCD technologies, then you should compare BenQ/Optoma vs Epson.

Contrast is a different topic, as the lower-end Epson models have 15,000 dynamic contrast while their entry level home theater model 5300 has 35,000 contrast... which is still considered as too basic and their higher end models have over 600,000 dynamic contrast.

Using a grey screen will help get better blacks (rather than black looking like light grey) with the entry-level Epson models.

 

[danielnaveen2003]

Looking at how many people are considering/buying these egate/unic/any other non big player brand projectors here, I think it would be awesome to do a side by side comparison in a standard environment. Simple stuff like measuring actual ANSI contrast and checking brightness after calibration and colour accuracy could definitely help everyone.

 

[elangoas]

I know, but no one should do that comparison considering the difference in quality and brand.

At some point or the other, there will be comparison.. Atleast, i would do that..(Just my opinion)

When comparing Egate vs Epson for over Rs.30k, it isn't about DLP vs LCD. It is about brand and quality.

The comparison should be price, feature & not brand..(objectively evaluate)

 

[NiteRider]

At some point or the other, there will be comparison.. Atleast, i would do that..(Just my opinion)

The comparison should be price, feature & not brand..(objectively evaluate)

By "brand", I did not mean the brand value or name, I meant the service network and long-term reliability of the company making the product.

And by "no comparison", I meant that it is not a contest. Epson will win for most people over Egate if their budget is over Rs.30,000.

LED or Laser light sources will be better than mercury lamps... but the technology is not made affordable yet for high quality projectors.

 

[NiteRider]

Looking at how many people are considering/buying these egate/unic/any other non big player brand projectors here, I think it would be awesome to do a side by side comparison in a standard environment. Simple stuff like measuring actual ANSI contrast and checking brightness after calibration and colour accuracy could definitely help everyone.

Agreed. Even a YouTube video without measuring any specs would be useful. I tried, but couldn't find any direct comparison videos in the same environment.

That's why I wrote this review on the comparison of Vivibright, Egate and Epson to help others in the same situation. I didn't have the projectors at the same time or I would have made a video.

 

[shibashis]

I think it depends on the preferences of each person. Some would get stuck on the shortcomings while some would be willing to give up everything else for a bigger screen size. I was and still am tempted to do that.

But I know that I will get the itch to upgrade on the first day and spend all my spare time and money on that which I didn't want to do at this point.

I took a step back and reevaluated my priorities (which was quite hard to do). I can't go "all in" into projectors at this time as it wasn't my highest priority. So it was just wrong timing for me.

I see that you have the Epson EB-U32 which has 3200 lumens. Even in its Eco-Cinema mode, the brightness is over 1400 lumens which is too bright for my eyes. The light also reflects off my room's light-coloured ceiling and walls and makes the picture washed out, specially the blacks. How did you handle that? Can you post some pics of your setup?

It was exactly the same with me, I knew for a fact that I would be finding faults with the picture quality as there were plenty if you wanted to find. How did I know there were faults if I did not experience it first-hand, there are eons of reviews available listing every possible pro and con of these Chinese models.

My Epson is exceedingly bright and even in Eco-mode it is very bright as you have pointed out. I always keep it in eco mode and have reduced the brightness from settings within the projector, that tames the brightness well. I do not have an ideal room by any stretch of imagination, at the moment am using a cheap white screen, when a proper room is ready will use a grey screen with proper ambient light. The picture is not 'washed out' but not perfect either though.
For me what I have at the moment is very satisfying, quite pleased in fact, will worry about perfection later.
I do not think I am compromising much, that would not have been the case if I went with Egate.
Will post pics.

 

[anubisX]

It would be great if you can put some pics up and possibly a video.

 

[tuff]

I have been using a Benq DLP 1200X800 rez. projector for the past 3 years. Over 2000 hrs so far. Two days ago it started flickering and shutting down by itself within 5 minutes of firing it up.I called Benq service center in Mumbai. To my surprise their technician came home(Rs.300 charge) said the bulb was fine, serviced the projector. Opened it and cleaned it completely. The Sensor had some dust accumulated on it, shutting the PJ down. Charged me 1100 rupees for it ,gave me a bill and the Projector was running again as good as new. Had bought for 42k from Reliance. The tech. said the bulb should work fine up to 5/6 thousand hours. The only thing i could say missing is the resolution, but the experience is fantastic. A shippy friend of mine had come last month with his newly acquired led projector for 300 USD (full HD). the luminance was almost half of the DLP projector. Friend ended up with instant regret. Just sharing my experience.