frankmehta
Active Member
I am planning a visit there this week. Will update here on the same.
frankmehta goes Speaker shopping! A few honest auditions.
- Thread starter frankmehta
- Start date
frankmehta
Active Member
Got a quote on the MS Aviano.
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Today, I adopted a retrospective approach.
I asked myself a SIMPLE question. Why a Floorstander? It's 4:35 AM here and I still can't answer my own self.
Let's frame this question AGAIN.
Why a floorstander when I can have the services of a set of fabulous (much better sounding) Bookshelves and a much better sub which can play the lower frequencies with more elan??
I don't quite know why I want a floorstander now.
<rolls eyes in confusion>
Back to square one.
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BUT.
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Today, I adopted a retrospective approach.
I asked myself a SIMPLE question. Why a Floorstander? It's 4:35 AM here and I still can't answer my own self.
Let's frame this question AGAIN.
Why a floorstander when I can have the services of a set of fabulous (much better sounding) Bookshelves and a much better sub which can play the lower frequencies with more elan??
I don't quite know why I want a floorstander now.
<rolls eyes in confusion>
Back to square one.
Frank - there are speakers that wow you at first listen and keep you enraptured at the showroom. Usually these are the kinds of speakers which induce head aches if you listen to them for more than 2 hours continuously at home. Not true all the time. But pretty much a general convention.
On the other hand, there may be inoffensive sounding systems at the showroom which could give you hours of enjoyment at home.
Its always a difficult call and if music is very important to you no decision can be taken without a home audition.
On the other hand, there may be inoffensive sounding systems at the showroom which could give you hours of enjoyment at home.
Its always a difficult call and if music is very important to you no decision can be taken without a home audition.
Integrating a subwoofer with bookshelves is a far more tricky proposition! Do not underestimate the effort involved. For movies, this is a cinch. Not for music.
Trouble is - your tastes start growing and taking shape only after you have bought your first decent hif system. Such has been my experience. So I would suggest spending as little as possible and try and assess what you like and what you dont like as opposed to what you think you like and what you think you dont like
. All the best.
Trouble is - your tastes start growing and taking shape only after you have bought your first decent hif system. Such has been my experience. So I would suggest spending as little as possible and try and assess what you like and what you dont like as opposed to what you think you like and what you think you dont like
. All the best.sud98
Well-Known Member
Also, dont forget the costs of the stands that dont really add any musical value but will cost you 5-10k at the minimum.
ummm.. sud though i build stands and my advice may look partial
the fact is - IF you need bookshlves you buy bookshleves!
Buying a floorstander because you feel youll spend 10k on a stand is no justification at all
a floorstander in a room that demands bookshleves is not wise
Im a noob but maybe someone whose got more experience may advice
p.S : franks room can accomodate floorstanders though if im not mistaken.
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Oh they add musical value, sud98. They definitely do. There is a huge difference between using these speakers on bookshelves and using them on stands.
hello,
Well! Honestly speaking, I love the asthetic appeal floorstanders bring to your living area. I'm quite certain that I should be able to do with decent bookshelves, but in the world of sound, you sometimes have to listen to what your heart says
Well! Honestly speaking, I love the asthetic appeal floorstanders bring to your living area. I'm quite certain that I should be able to do with decent bookshelves, but in the world of sound, you sometimes have to listen to what your heart says
Frank,
Do check out QAcoustics as well if you get to listen.
Importantly, among receivers, Marantz, Cambridge Audio, NAD, Arcam are all far more musical than the Ubiquitous Denon, Yamaha and Onkyo. Do choose your receiver carefully if you want to listen some music. Denon typically is bright.
Klipsch is a good option but their lower end speakers may not be all that great.
If the size of your room is less than say 225sqft, a good bookshelf will take you leagues ahead in terms of musicality. Look at an Epos, Dynaudio, Proac, higher end Dali, higher end B&W..there will be more. Pair it with a musical receiver and you will be much more happy. Do it once for all.
Do check out QAcoustics as well if you get to listen.
Importantly, among receivers, Marantz, Cambridge Audio, NAD, Arcam are all far more musical than the Ubiquitous Denon, Yamaha and Onkyo. Do choose your receiver carefully if you want to listen some music. Denon typically is bright.
Klipsch is a good option but their lower end speakers may not be all that great.
If the size of your room is less than say 225sqft, a good bookshelf will take you leagues ahead in terms of musicality. Look at an Epos, Dynaudio, Proac, higher end Dali, higher end B&W..there will be more. Pair it with a musical receiver and you will be much more happy. Do it once for all.
square_wave
Well-Known Member
There are various factors which affect the performance of a loudspeaker. The ones which will certainly affect your decision in the way you have been demoing gear are the following.
1.Associated equipment
2.Room
3.Speaker positioning and setup
4.Time taken to understand the capabilities of a loudspeaker (whirlwind demos are essentially useless)
5.The very fact that you are using AVRs as against an integrated amp for demo.
Do not under estimate the importance of the factors above. If you take all these speakers to your home and demo with your gear, you will come out with a totally different shorlist !
For a blind buy, I would say you lose all the speakers in the initial shorlist and pick up a pair of paradigm studio series loudspeaker. The best one you can afford. A studio 20 with a good subwoofer will rock !
I have not heard Q acoustics hence cannot comment on them. The other ones DR Bass suggested are all good.
1.Associated equipment
2.Room
3.Speaker positioning and setup
4.Time taken to understand the capabilities of a loudspeaker (whirlwind demos are essentially useless)
5.The very fact that you are using AVRs as against an integrated amp for demo.
Do not under estimate the importance of the factors above. If you take all these speakers to your home and demo with your gear, you will come out with a totally different shorlist !
For a blind buy, I would say you lose all the speakers in the initial shorlist and pick up a pair of paradigm studio series loudspeaker. The best one you can afford. A studio 20 with a good subwoofer will rock !
I have not heard Q acoustics hence cannot comment on them. The other ones DR Bass suggested are all good.
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sud98
Well-Known Member
First of all apologies to my poor post on stands. I should have been a bit more specific. I have seen stands that cost 25k Rs. that are to be used on bookshelves worth 50k which given the benefits I dont think make sense.
That being said, Frank as others have pointed, size of the room is a very good consideration. FS in a small room and BS (not the hefty ones) in a large room can be a problem. BS can give you more options on placement as the stands can be adjusted to your height needs as well as being easier to move around.
At the 1 lakh price limit, you can try a combination of Usherx718 (if you are ok with BS) or the Martin Logan Motion series 4 BS or the Jamo c605 as fronts (FS) or Paradigm Monitor series (I havent heard but was recommended the same). These were the best of the lot I heard when I was looking for a sub lakh set of 5.1.
That being said, Frank as others have pointed, size of the room is a very good consideration. FS in a small room and BS (not the hefty ones) in a large room can be a problem. BS can give you more options on placement as the stands can be adjusted to your height needs as well as being easier to move around.
At the 1 lakh price limit, you can try a combination of Usherx718 (if you are ok with BS) or the Martin Logan Motion series 4 BS or the Jamo c605 as fronts (FS) or Paradigm Monitor series (I havent heard but was recommended the same). These were the best of the lot I heard when I was looking for a sub lakh set of 5.1.
anirvanbhadra
New Member
Well i would second trying out the ushers mentioned above - think they are the best BS in 1 lakh type budgets. oh how i wish i had that much to spare right now,,,,,
frankmehta
Active Member
I am still stuck on the Mordaunt Short. Really. The Aviano series is a good all rounder. Sad about the centre channel though. Gives up on intense scenes.
My subwoofer is finalized! It's the Definitive Technology Supercube III/II depending on the budget.
My subwoofer is finalized! It's the Definitive Technology Supercube III/II depending on the budget.
Srinivas29
New Member
HI,
I just want to check whether you have tried wharfedale 10 series? If yes, what was your opinion on them. If no, any reason why.
I just want to check whether you have tried wharfedale 10 series? If yes, what was your opinion on them. If no, any reason why.
In my humble opinion, you cannot complete such a test without auditioning the B&W range. it is simply one of the global leaders in this area and they are locally available. they seem to win the majority of international review polls and group tests by various publications
frankmehta
Active Member
It's not everyday that one buys a home theater system. That's the reason why I took so many demos. I am now pretty well versed with quite a few speakers that sound decent and provide enough bang for the buck within this price range.
Here's a small run-through of what is on my mind.
I have been lusting after tall floor-standers ever since I saw the National 'towers' at an Uncle's place at the age of 10.
The fixation with floor-standers was also accentuated by the phrase that actually holds quite true even now, "bigger is better."
The nail on the coffin for 'small' speakers (not floor standers) was the fact that I compare anything small with Bose. I hold a different, polarized opinion of Bose speakers. Never have I heard something sounding SO abysmal and poor for the INSANE prices they charge. They suck. Period. People can come and pick a nail with me over this. But seriously, Bose? No way. Hence an aversion to Bose'esque small speaker setups.
Until now.
I agree nothing comes close to listening to music on Floor-standers, or that visceral reinforced impact from them when you are watching a movie. I respect that.
But then, there are budgets. And there is mine.
A Lac of rupees can only buy a decent mid level system in India. Many reasons to blame. High custom duties, heavy shipping costs, the sometimes stringent price manipulation (read: High prices) by reputed brands in India, just because they have had a good run in the past.
I am a 'gujju' (Gujarati, for those who are not well versed with this term) and 'gujjus' are known to try and get the best out of their money.
I am here to do the same. I am here to buy something that gives me the MOST bang for my buck, even if it belies old school philosophies and casts a doubt on my mental stability.
I also have a funda that I find helpful in these days of inflation. Buy the mid level product of a slightly less reputed (albeit highly respected) brand instead of buying the entry level product of the best possible brand.
EG: If I have 60 k in my hands. I am out to buy a set of floor-standers. Which one would I buy?
Simple: I would buy a mid level product of brand like Mordaunt Short or Dali or even PSB, instead of buying the cheapest offering from, say Focal or B&W.
This is my philosophy. Works most of the time for me.
And now, after all that rambling, let's get down to business.
I have a lac of rupees. I am out to buy a home theater system. A good set of front speakers, a matching and sweet center channel, a rocking subwoofer and a set of satellite rears.
A lac of rupees sounds like a large amount. But counter in the cost of buying a GOOD sounding floor stander and a matching center channel and you are left with not much money after that. The reason for this could be the fact that the cabinet of the FS is a big one, or weighs a lot. Adding to the cost. But not necessarily to the sound. The bass, yes, but not too much to the overall tonal quality. I am paying more for slightly more bass and the SHIPPING and PACKING COSTS. (NOTE: I do not endorse this policy when you are on an unrestricted budget. Floor-standers are better than bookshelves or satellite speakers if you can afford them)
One more thing in my case that helped me decide against floor-standers was the fact that the models I liked came with backfiring port/s. My speakers will be almost up against the wall. And one thing I JUST cannot stand is BOOM.
So coming back to my system, I had to let go of the thought to get floor-standers. With a heavy heart (ask me 'WHY' one more time and I smack you in the face
hyeah
I am not into critical listening but I prefer honest sounding speakers. I really do not like coloured sound or sound that has been artificially enhanced by boosted equalization.
To find such a set of speakers in this price range is difficult. Not impossible.
I was on a quest to find something that fitted my requirements well. I am now done deciding.
Here goes.
I bring to you, the Definitive Technology ProCinema 1000 PLUS package WITHOUT the ProSub 1000.
Yes, I am floored by the ProMonitor 1000s in this package. I was floored when I had my first demo but neglected them as I wanted floorstanders then. I am now a wiser man.
Their small girth belies the sound-stage they can produce. Their clever design makes them more competent and efficient than a lot of bookshelves that cost almost double the price of the ProMonitor 1000s.
The BDSS driver structure almost gives them the performance of a 'larger than normal' bookshelf, at a smaller cost. They look plain jane, but you need to power them up to believe the amount of detail they can produce. The midbass they put out is the most surprising part. They have a lot of technical wizardry going for them and this is something that floors me. HOW can you deliver such refined sound at THIS price???
Well, the package consists of 4 ProMonitor 1000s and the LARGER ProCenter 2000.
I had heard the system ProCenter 1000. The 1000 series center channel was nice and clear and made movie watching a cinch. I was impressed by it, till I was told there was a larger (Dont you remember? "Bigger is better"), more powerful ProCenter 2000 on offer and within my budget. I didn't hesitate nodding my head. I said yes, naturally.
BUT then came the part that blew my budget to smithereens. Well, not by a large margin, but YES, it spells a larger blow to my wallet. The ProSub 1000 that I heard with the system that day was slightly the fly in the ointment. It dug low, yes, but didn't have a visceral impact that I had just experienced when I had gone to demo a set of Mirage speakers in 'Thump' and had heard the Mirage MM8 along-with them. I was blown away by their performance.
Till Mr. Anil Srivastava (Audio Excellence distributes DefTech in India. Mr. Anil heads it. Fabulous guy. Demo was at his warehouse in a swank demo room) asked his helper to attach the Supercube.
THE SuperCube. A death blow to most sub-woofers in and around it's budget. MY GOD! That was it! LOVE at first hear! Dark Knight on Bluray had NEVER sounded this good! The shotgun in the first scene. The accompanying music in the run up to the bank heist. I have only one word to describe the depth and the surreal performance of this sub-woofer. ORGASMIC. Period.
Tight, visceral bass which attacks you and makes you swallow your throat with it's astounding lows and super fast piranha-like reflexes. I was in love. No, you can call it 'lust!'
I was told the SuperCube III might be able to fit into my budget (a little higher, actually) but I decided to go for the SuperCube II which comes with a beefier driver and the built in amp does double the power of the one in the SuperCube III.
My budget went out of the window by about 30%. But, I now have the ProMonitor 1000 that has the SAME award winning drivers as the TOP OF THE LINE DefTech speakers. AND I have a ROCKING sub-woofer. Not to mention the Uprated Center Channel. All this for the amount that could just about afford the MOST entry level setup from Focal or Dynaudio or Bowers & Wilkins (actually, NO)
I am DEAD sure my system is going to sound better than their entry level offerings for movies as well as music.
My case lies rested.
Disclaimer: Lots of hearts were broken while making this choice.
All views mentioned in the above article are mine. Please take them with a pinch of salt.
Here's a small run-through of what is on my mind.
I have been lusting after tall floor-standers ever since I saw the National 'towers' at an Uncle's place at the age of 10.
The fixation with floor-standers was also accentuated by the phrase that actually holds quite true even now, "bigger is better."
The nail on the coffin for 'small' speakers (not floor standers) was the fact that I compare anything small with Bose. I hold a different, polarized opinion of Bose speakers. Never have I heard something sounding SO abysmal and poor for the INSANE prices they charge. They suck. Period. People can come and pick a nail with me over this. But seriously, Bose? No way. Hence an aversion to Bose'esque small speaker setups.
Until now.
I agree nothing comes close to listening to music on Floor-standers, or that visceral reinforced impact from them when you are watching a movie. I respect that.
But then, there are budgets. And there is mine.
A Lac of rupees can only buy a decent mid level system in India. Many reasons to blame. High custom duties, heavy shipping costs, the sometimes stringent price manipulation (read: High prices) by reputed brands in India, just because they have had a good run in the past.
I am a 'gujju' (Gujarati, for those who are not well versed with this term) and 'gujjus' are known to try and get the best out of their money.
I am here to do the same. I am here to buy something that gives me the MOST bang for my buck, even if it belies old school philosophies and casts a doubt on my mental stability.
I also have a funda that I find helpful in these days of inflation. Buy the mid level product of a slightly less reputed (albeit highly respected) brand instead of buying the entry level product of the best possible brand.
EG: If I have 60 k in my hands. I am out to buy a set of floor-standers. Which one would I buy?
Simple: I would buy a mid level product of brand like Mordaunt Short or Dali or even PSB, instead of buying the cheapest offering from, say Focal or B&W.
This is my philosophy. Works most of the time for me.
And now, after all that rambling, let's get down to business.
I have a lac of rupees. I am out to buy a home theater system. A good set of front speakers, a matching and sweet center channel, a rocking subwoofer and a set of satellite rears.
A lac of rupees sounds like a large amount. But counter in the cost of buying a GOOD sounding floor stander and a matching center channel and you are left with not much money after that. The reason for this could be the fact that the cabinet of the FS is a big one, or weighs a lot. Adding to the cost. But not necessarily to the sound. The bass, yes, but not too much to the overall tonal quality. I am paying more for slightly more bass and the SHIPPING and PACKING COSTS. (NOTE: I do not endorse this policy when you are on an unrestricted budget. Floor-standers are better than bookshelves or satellite speakers if you can afford them)
One more thing in my case that helped me decide against floor-standers was the fact that the models I liked came with backfiring port/s. My speakers will be almost up against the wall. And one thing I JUST cannot stand is BOOM.
So coming back to my system, I had to let go of the thought to get floor-standers. With a heavy heart (ask me 'WHY' one more time and I smack you in the face
hyeahI am not into critical listening but I prefer honest sounding speakers. I really do not like coloured sound or sound that has been artificially enhanced by boosted equalization.
To find such a set of speakers in this price range is difficult. Not impossible.
I was on a quest to find something that fitted my requirements well. I am now done deciding.
Here goes.
I bring to you, the Definitive Technology ProCinema 1000 PLUS package WITHOUT the ProSub 1000.
Yes, I am floored by the ProMonitor 1000s in this package. I was floored when I had my first demo but neglected them as I wanted floorstanders then. I am now a wiser man.
Their small girth belies the sound-stage they can produce. Their clever design makes them more competent and efficient than a lot of bookshelves that cost almost double the price of the ProMonitor 1000s.
The BDSS driver structure almost gives them the performance of a 'larger than normal' bookshelf, at a smaller cost. They look plain jane, but you need to power them up to believe the amount of detail they can produce. The midbass they put out is the most surprising part. They have a lot of technical wizardry going for them and this is something that floors me. HOW can you deliver such refined sound at THIS price???
Well, the package consists of 4 ProMonitor 1000s and the LARGER ProCenter 2000.
I had heard the system ProCenter 1000. The 1000 series center channel was nice and clear and made movie watching a cinch. I was impressed by it, till I was told there was a larger (Dont you remember? "Bigger is better"), more powerful ProCenter 2000 on offer and within my budget. I didn't hesitate nodding my head. I said yes, naturally.
BUT then came the part that blew my budget to smithereens. Well, not by a large margin, but YES, it spells a larger blow to my wallet. The ProSub 1000 that I heard with the system that day was slightly the fly in the ointment. It dug low, yes, but didn't have a visceral impact that I had just experienced when I had gone to demo a set of Mirage speakers in 'Thump' and had heard the Mirage MM8 along-with them. I was blown away by their performance.
Till Mr. Anil Srivastava (Audio Excellence distributes DefTech in India. Mr. Anil heads it. Fabulous guy. Demo was at his warehouse in a swank demo room) asked his helper to attach the Supercube.
THE SuperCube. A death blow to most sub-woofers in and around it's budget. MY GOD! That was it! LOVE at first hear! Dark Knight on Bluray had NEVER sounded this good! The shotgun in the first scene. The accompanying music in the run up to the bank heist. I have only one word to describe the depth and the surreal performance of this sub-woofer. ORGASMIC. Period.
Tight, visceral bass which attacks you and makes you swallow your throat with it's astounding lows and super fast piranha-like reflexes. I was in love. No, you can call it 'lust!'
I was told the SuperCube III might be able to fit into my budget (a little higher, actually) but I decided to go for the SuperCube II which comes with a beefier driver and the built in amp does double the power of the one in the SuperCube III.
My budget went out of the window by about 30%. But, I now have the ProMonitor 1000 that has the SAME award winning drivers as the TOP OF THE LINE DefTech speakers. AND I have a ROCKING sub-woofer. Not to mention the Uprated Center Channel. All this for the amount that could just about afford the MOST entry level setup from Focal or Dynaudio or Bowers & Wilkins (actually, NO)
I am DEAD sure my system is going to sound better than their entry level offerings for movies as well as music.
My case lies rested.
Disclaimer: Lots of hearts were broken while making this choice.
All views mentioned in the above article are mine. Please take them with a pinch of salt.
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frankmehta
Active Member
Not yet paid. Will be paying next week. Delivery on or after 15th of August when I shift in.
Thanks though
Thanks though
Not yet paid. Will be paying next week. Delivery on or after 15th of August when I shift in.
Thanks though
Well howmuch was the price quoted ? Do they have 600 and 800 procinema packages too ?
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