Full Range Horn & system build

[rajan-]

While I am yet to complete my "Bride Of Zen" dedicated pre amp (its still inside the while card board box) , I tested the new "Whammy" Head phone amp with Additional Pre-amp out on my main system.

the sound signature is very different. very crisp and punchy. I am tempted to just leave it there some time.

 

[Amateur_Audiophile]

plz share the details around Driver.

 

[rajan-]

plz share the details around Driver.

Not sure I fully understand the question.

Home

Tang Band W8-1772 8" Neodymium Full Range DriverTang Band's W8-1772 full range driver features a sturdy cast frame, multiple-element neodymium magnet system, paper cone, and cloth half-roll surround. A precisely machined integral plug prevents phase cancellations and improves high frequency...

www.parts-express.com

8 inch , full range

The sound signature is unlike modern speakers which are normally housed in ported boxes. this seems more relaxed, but fast when needed. the natural decay (transitions) of sound from instruments are very audible. can hear the artist picking the strings and small taps on the guitar, lots of presence.

These are designed for class -a , point source applications, due to its high efficiency, only needs very few watts and in a cabinet like what I have, 7W / channel is more than enough for a good listening session.

mind you, these are not party speakers (at least in its current configuration) .. more on that later.


"The underhung 1-1/2" voice coil reduces second and third harmonic distortion while still delivering high efficiency (95 dB 1W/1m ) and 3 mm of Xmax. Designed for point source/full range applications."

this blurb from the manufacturer is interesting, as the Amps I have are famous for its second harmonic sound signature.

Does that mean it will negate the high points of the amp or just keep it from over doing it ?

I dont know yet, but I intend to find out.

Right now, the amps are operating in a single ended / bridged mono mode.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1006/5046/files/ACA_Monoblock_Operation_RevA.pdf

I do have lots flexibility to change my amps sound signature just by using the balanced inputs, which will take away the second harmonic distortion and have the amps operating in Balanced mono mode.

But I do not have a balanced pre-amp (yet) to test those features)



the LeCleach horns does not have any drivers in them yet. for now, they are just ornamental. I am yet to decide which driver to go for.

Once this is in place, I will also have a balanced pre-amp, and have a switchable filter inputs next to the speaker cabinet so that I can make the current cabinet works in different modes, point source or just as bass / midbass cabinet, and have compression driver take higher freq.

along with Balanced mode amps, this will completely change the experience.

Can also add a Sub for bass augmentation.

 

[rajan-]

Updates:

As the Amps and the Drivers are getting burned in, the sq is increasing dramatically.
The drivers are starting to take full advantage of the 4.5m horn. bass is getting better and better in quantity and definition. . drum works representations are starting to get real, can feel the the attack on the double bass, not just hear it. ( I am convincing myself that a REL Subwoofer (even better would be a pair) is no longer a want, its a need. )

Need to prioritise between super tweeter or Subs.

there is also the urge to build a unique Sub ( https://www.decware.com/newsite/wo32.htm ) , a horn sub to compliment the horns.

The magic starts when I play Jazz, at a moderate volume. Unreal texture to the music. Can actually hear subtleties s in the bass guitar and double
bass, its almost like some hidden gate opened. and its noticeable even played from FM stations.

and late night listening sessions after few choice drinks and dimmed lights, its like a chicago blues bar. its trippy.


guys who are sitting on the fence on a full range Tangband, should make an effort to hear one.



While I got distracted with the "Whammy" HP amp build and enjoying it, never really got around to a proper volume control for the "Bride of Zen" preamps which has been doing yeoman duty with a cheap pot.. Until now.

Made a motorised remote control with an alps pot I found on ebay.
Installed it in is Own chassis, this way I can try it before the preamp or after the preamp, and take it to multiple systems.

Haven't got a knob yet. I might change the chassis, may be a wooden one. for now, this is good enough.


Comparing the BOZ preamp side by side with Whammy as pre-amp, Robert Cray was happy to visit and help out.




On special request, he also played

 

[rajan-]

"the" ... SUB....

putting it all back together...

 

[Hari Iyer]

Nice . Wondering if Altec a7 VOTT was considered before considering this design.

 

[rajan-]

Nice . Wondering if Altec a7 VOTT was considered before considering this design.

I didn't really consider VOTT designs, it as this time, space utilization was a priority.
the current speakers are only 30cm wide.

that said, if I have a dedicated music room, I think I would like to build a western electric Sato horn.

 

[rajan-]

over the weekend, tried to experiment with Spikes for the horns.

Dayton Audio - DSS2-BC Black Chrome Spike Set 4 Pcs.

DSS2-BC Black Chrome Spike Set 4 Pcs.

www.daytonaudio.com

Did not want to drill and install Spikes on the horns just for experimenting. Lucky for me, I still had full size MDF bottom pieces from my horn build.

was not sure what to expect because of the conflicting opinions of the result. (

)

For sure there is a not so small difference in how bass is presented when the horns are on spike.

if I get a chance I will also experiment with Speaker isolation pads.

Until then, I think I will keep the spikes. Need to listen to different kind of music to decide long term use or permanent fix.

 

[jenson]

Superb build! Pro level.

 

[rajan-]

Superb build! Pro level.

Thank you.

I had time, a lot of time, being covid locked down in Melbourne

 

[rajan-]

After the room renovation, and some mods on the pre-amp, re-arranged everything

Wall Mounted TV.

Hifi rack removed, and arranged everything on a low profile Entertainment Unit. I tried to arrange the cabling after taking inspiration from @Subbu68 .. I am not at his level, but this has been a pretty good so far. Just need to zip tie the power lines from the wall to 2 small boxes which has all the power connections inside.

No more Gaming rigs on this. IT was getting cluttered with toom may things connected to TV.
Xbox and the Bose Soundbar setup moved to other room, with the Panasonic TV. With 2 separate TV, no more fighting and arguments for screen time.

 

[powerslave]

OP, those wooden horns look similar to what Viren Bakshi sir of Lyrita Audio fame builds , you may ask him about what drivers to employ .

 

[rajan-]

OP, those wooden horns look similar to what Viren Bakshi sir of Lyrita Audio fame builds , you may ask him about what drivers to employ .

It looks similar because, it is from Lyrita..
I got it few years back from Viren ... Its so good, I carried it when I moved country..

He uses Eminence PSD2002 Compression Driver...

Take a look at the first post on this thread, and I have given details on my previous build link there..

 

[rajan-]

I tried spikes, and removed it. it made a difference, I felt the life went out of the speakers.. I didn't like that difference..

removing them made it impossible to clean / dust around the cabinet, so I wanted to lift it up a little, but didnt want t use the spikes, as I didnt like the outcome at the end.

I had high expectations of the spikes out of al the things I have heard abt them. may be its good for different kinds of speakers..

Anyways...

then I noticed the door weight I was using on top of the DAC to stop it from slipping down. (These things are solid stainless steel. very heavy and also got a rubber base.)

got 4 of them and used it like in the pic. Again, it made a difference to the sound, but not like the spikes. I can live with that.

plus, it also looks nice. contrast with the deep copper paint on the cabinets..
got 4 more for the other side as well.

and cleaning under / around is far easier.

 

[rajan-]

Didn't get time to integrate the tube input section to the pre-amps or complete the LeCleach horn section (yet).

but felt like doing something, and noticed the cobalt blue 12 Gauge cables, which is a bit of an eye sore.
so why not some cables ?

I am a sceptic, on the magical and life altering changes cables can make, and don't think will spend that kind of money, ever, on those.. just cant justify it.

But. no harm in trying out something different, if its not costing much.

also have heard at many places abt the difference some of these braided wires can make to the horns.

DIY speaker cables

Do it yourself high quality speaker cables

inlowsound.weebly.com

Was about to do this when I chanced across

&

I do like what I SEE here. but I haven't heard them.

inductance, capacitance, resistance, RF / EMI interferences, skin effect, Gauge Vs Current, etc etc the list goes on...

on this cable, half of the 24 runs combines to make a 7 gauge wire !!!! in my book, that sounds good..

time to try it out.
I hope the outcome will not make anything worse...
lets see.. c'man aliexpress.. and ................. its delivered..

onwards to the cable lands of fairies and unicorns

 

[mbhangui]

I am a sceptic, on the magical and life altering changes cables can make, and don't think will spend that kind of money, ever, on those.. just cant justify it.

Same here. The important thing is to keep the DC resistance low and also the capacitance and inductance.

But. no harm in trying out something different, if its not costing much.

also have heard at many places abt the difference some of these braided wires can make to the horns.

DIY speaker cables

Do it yourself high quality speaker cables

inlowsound.weebly.com

Was about to do this when I chanced across

&

I do like what I SEE here. but I haven't heard them.

inductance, capacitance, resistance, RF / EMI interferences, skin effect, Gauge Vs Current, etc etc the list goes on...

on this cable, half of the 24 runs combines to make a 7 gauge wire !!!! in my book, that sounds good..

time to try it out.
I hope the outcome will not make anything worse...
lets see.. c'man aliexpress.. and ................. its delivered..

onwards to the cable lands of fairies and unicorns

Good find. The key thing was 12tc copper wire, same thing that Kimber sells at an inflated cost. The radar absorbing tape mentioned in the GR research video however went over my head

 

[drlowmu]

It was fun to re-read and see the updates to your thread. Thanks. Since you are discusssing cables and horn speakers, here is the rare combination of least expensive and best performing cable I am aware of :

M22759 based Speaker Cable

I wonder if you have ever tried the wire I suggested on HFV this year? I feel it is worthy of a trial, a good listen. It is m22759/11/12 which is copper multi stranded, with each strand silver plated, wrapped inside a teflon outer jacket. This is military-quality and specified wire. The...

www.hifivision.com

It has been installed in seven well implemented ( mostly ) horn based audio systems so far, and in each case it wiped-out what the audiophile / music lover was using. 7 for 7, 100%. It's DIY and nicely, NOT unaffordable !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I got into horns in about 2014, have ALTEC VOTT A7-8s and enjoy them. ( 515b and 802d ) My idea of the most desirable horn system is : a simple two way, with both drivers FRONT horn loaded, using a simple single 15 inch and a 1 inch compression driver. I applaud all of your dedicated labor.

Jeff

 

[Dr.Gary]

It was fun to re-read and see the updates to your thread. Thanks. Since you are discusssing cables and horn speakers, here is the rare combination of least expensive and best performing cable I am aware of :

M22759 based Speaker Cable

I wonder if you have ever tried the wire I suggested on HFV this year? I feel it is worthy of a trial, a good listen. It is m22759/11/12 which is copper multi stranded, with each strand silver plated, wrapped inside a teflon outer jacket. This is military-quality and specified wire. The...

www.hifivision.com

It has been installed in seven well implemented ( mostly ) horn based audio systems so far, and in each case it wiped-out what the audiophile / music lover was using. 7 for 7, 100%. It's DIY and nicely, NOT unaffordable !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I got into horns in about 2014, have ALTEC VOTT A7-8s and enjoy them. ( 515b and 802d ) My idea of the most desirable horn system is : a simple two way, with both drivers FRONT horn loaded, using a simple single 15 inch and a 1 inch compression driver. I applaud all of your dedicated labor.

Jeff

You claim 7 for 7 which lead me to ask where someone can find first-hand testimonials by these seven audiophiles regarding their experiences with the cables to which you refer.

 

[rajan-]

Same here. The important thing is to keep the DC resistance low and also the capacitance and inductance.



Good find. The key thing was 12tc copper wire, same thing that Kimber sells at an inflated cost. The radar absorbing tape mentioned in the GR research video however went over my head

I thought a bit about the radar absorbing material used only on both ends of the cable,

and the only thing I could think of its purpose is to block or reduce any EMI / RF items picked up by the long cable (because any cable can act as an antenna) from entering either the amps (assuming they then get amplified and make things progressively worse) or entering speakers.

but yeah, Kimber sells the same cable at obscene prices..

 

[rajan-]

completed the speaker cables..
Spade connector has 2 Allen keys , solid connections.. I also soldered it ( Nothing exotic: Savbit 6 366 Solder).

with a 1/2 inch rope inside, (to avoid kinks) and supposedly increase performance by reducing the inductance, emi rejection and all that magic jazz, this feels substantial. and looks good as well.

I call it the anaconda..

107 AUD total for components, and abt 4 hours to make them. but its looks way better and more expensive and exotic than anything I have ever used so far.
In comparison, ($800+ for a single 2.5 meter KImber cable, which looks like using the same cable) . that should be over $1600 for a pair if I were to buy the kimber version.

I feel kind of stupid, its a cable after all.. its not supposed to make any difference, right ?

I swapped the 12AWG wire to the Horns with Anaconda, immd had to reduce the Sub cross over & Sub volume.... and played for 2 hours.. then I swapped back, .. nope, wont do, swapped again to Anacondas.. been playing for 4 hours now..

All I will say is (without sounding stupid in my own words) , its different. in a nice way..

may be its placebo effect..!!!