Great musicians of the 20th century

[ajay124]

A You Tube gem.
Dizzy and Bird together!
YouTube - Charlie Parker & Dizzy Gillespie
There's something electric,exciting and alive about these guys.Contrast that to the dumba** videos doing the rounds over the last couple of decades!
Music did not 'die' in the early 70's as Don Mclean famously sang...Jazz peaked around '59 and Rock(Music?)sort of carried the torch till '68 and then...it was twilight time...and then since '72-or so ... 'an everlasting night' 'the dark ages' 'death warmed over'...take your pick!

 

[ajay124]

hi ajay
coltrane is free jazz.Thats what he really is , when he broke down the barriers of bebop.His 'sheets of sound' approach, when one note merges into the other was the secret which no one else could copy.his earlier miles davis recordings were stifling him and thats where he really took off.in fact, if you listen carefully, his melodic/modal improvisations are quite similar to the extensive aalaap in our hindustani classical where in the end the musician comes back to the sthaayi.the only difference is in the form of improvisation over a central theme.coleman took over from him but coltrane's range was unlimited.
i dont have many of bird's recordings so i wont be able to compare.but he had a real melodic voice and he needed only a small space to express himself.
the only other musician with the improvisatory skills and sheets of sound voice is allan holdworth.his fluid legato technique resembles coltrane's style and he also has the melodic range of coltrane.
if you like coltrane and also like guitar,you are bound to like holdsworth. do get some cds of holdsworth (not available in india but freely available everywhere else including amazon and i tunes). i would begin with his retrospective AGAINST THE CLOCK.listen to it .im sure you will like it.
cheers
himadri

Last night after many months,I put on my all time favorite jazz cd,The Best of John Coltrane (2 cd/Universal).An early 90's release.I have given this cd ( and A Kind of Blue) more playtime,than any other jazz in my library.Therfore in recent times,I have been listening more to the later Coltrane's.... Ascensions/Meditations/Stellar Regions/Sun Ship,and I confess,it's a bit of an uphill task.On these albums Coltrane seems to be climbing K2 and folks who try to follow him,would probably get hit by fatigue and acrophobia.
I had taken the Coltrane 2cd along for all the auditions I did this year,and came back with the feeling that the SQ on this cd was good but not great.
But last night when I slipped in the cd,the 'Bryston' magic was in full swing!(Has happened with several cd's I played for the first time,on my new set up).From the first note of 'In A Sentimental Mood' I felt a sense of exhilaration.Have never heard Jazz sounding so alive,in the room and real on any playback system.Follow up tracks...Lush Life,Alabama (!),Miles' Mood,My Favourite Things-Live (!),A Love Supreme Part 1(!).I am glad to say that after the recent (minor) dip,in my affection for Cotrane,he is Numero Uno once again!Quite simply,(barring classical music-western,indian) there is very little in 20th century popular music that can match up to Blue Trane/Giant Steps/My Favorite Things/A Love Supreme/Crescent/A Kind Of Blue.Coltrane at his best is the high water mark,the gold standard,against which I would measure all popular music.Personally I feel there is a lot in Jazz music-Ellington,Armstrong,Parker,Gillespie,Monk,Rollins,Peterson,Brown,Davis which is almost as good as Coltrane.But nothing in Rock/R&B/Any other which can stand up to Coltrane and say Me Too!

 

[hrd.hrishikesh]

...Music did not 'die' in the early 70's as Don Mclean famously sang...Jazz peaked around '59 and Rock(Music?)sort of carried the torch till '68 and then...it was twilight time...and then since '72-or so ... 'an everlasting night' 'the dark ages' 'death warmed over'...take your pick!

There's a generation gap right there. I and many of my generation have begun with rock of the 70's and so on. Beatles, the boyband of rock, Stones were ok, so were The Who. But have these guys compete with Pink Floyd or Led Zepp or Queen? Not a chance. (Please mind that I'm not judging anyone or their tastes here. Maybe don't have superior taste myself, just personal likes and dislikes) Perhaps that's why the 70's onwards rock is said to have branched into progressive and alternative etc and the mellower of the rock, blues etc went the soul way. Am not too sure about the classification but then it's just my labels.
Likewise, I find Hiphop and rap etc to be a little less (quite a bit in fact) to my liking. I used to think that sun of rock has gone down sometime in the 90's but then I find this thread and people of the old generation who think that their sun of rock set when I saw the sun rise and shine and then again a generation younger to me that vigorously bangs its tender but strong willed head to the thump of Eminem and Linkin Park etc.
Is that a contrast or collective Deja Vu or what!
No wonder lot of oldies don't like Springsteen, Dire Straits, U2 etc simply the way I don't like many newer musicians.
My musing: Is the musical taste of any person subject his age and to the time he lives in? Absolutely methinks. Perhaps that's why classical survives through centuries because it's so abstract and appeals (somewhat) directly to the listener with fewer barriers of social conditioning a la time/ culture/ age/ people...
Hmmm...
P.S.- Action point: I'm now trying to listen to John Conltrane, Neil Young and Ella Fitzerald etc...realise now that neither are these artists definitive nor are those of my own notions till now, the disconnect cuts both ways and affects only me. Ha! Time for me to listen to Eminem and Linkin Park etc.
Long post, bye.

 

[ajay124]

@hrd.hrishikesh
It does begin as a generation thing.But need not end like one.
In school,Simla,early-70's,I was listening to Cliff Richard,Neil Diamond,Beegees,Abba,Carpenters,Queen,Simon & Garfunkel,because this is what HMV/Polydor had released on LP's then.Even the radio stations played these albums most of the time.By the time we moved into college late 70's we were listening to Dire Straits,Eagles,Pink Floyd,Santana,Door's,Beatles,Stones,Who,Led Zep,Tull,Marley and in my case a LOT of Dylan and Young.Pretty soon we discovered Cream,Traffic,Blind Faith,Hendrix,Clapton,Mayall,Cale,Velvet Underground,Steely Dan,Grateful Dead.Most of my friends stopped here and never sought further.They are still listening to the same music although most of them have lost their passion for music.I believe they lost their passion because they stayed put.We may begin by sharing the tastes of our generation..all the flotsam and jetsam of what is fashionable and popular...but to discover something special one has to 'break on through to the others side'.Billie Holiday and Ella Fitzgerald are not from my generation.They were singing 30-35 years before I got into music.Yet at some point I,like many others,discovered them,and personally I am of the opinion that 99.99 % of the 'great' singers of the 20th century are not worth even one song of Ella or Lady Day.
To be popular does not require merit.Rather what is required is a mediocrity which will appeal to a large number of people with questionable/no taste.I have always used 'popularity' as a measure for 'mediocrity' and in most cases it holds true.So the fact that everybody is talking about M or J or whoever happens to be the new kid on the block does not hold any water.Similarly,it is completely irrelevant if an album scores big on some awards/charts/etc.Most of that stuff is hype and froth and should be ignored!
This post is rambling a bit but basically what I want to say is that if you want to discover 'treasures' you have to 'walk on the wild side' in music and in everything else in life!
*Classical music/literature/paintings survived not because they are 'abstract' but because they are universal and eternal.They may have been 'unpopular' or 'unknown' at the time of their birth,as they were far ahead of their time, but ultimately they permeate the entire universe,where as,what was merely fashionable or popular is discarded and forgotten within a couple of generations.

 

[doors666]

@hrd.hrishikesh
It does begin as a generation thing.But need not end like one.
In school,Simla,early-70's,I was listening to Cliff Richard,Neil Diamond,Beegees,Abba,Carpenters,Queen,Simon & Garfunkel,because this is what HMV/Polydor had released on LP's then.Even the radio stations played these albums most of the time.By the time we moved into college late 70's we were listening to Dire Straits,Eagles,Pink Floyd,Santana,Door's,Beatles,Stones,Who,Led Zep,Tull,Marley and in my case a LOT of Dylan and Young.Pretty soon we discovered Cream,Traffic,Blind Faith,Hendrix,Clapton,Mayall,Cale,Velvet Underground,Steely Dan,Grateful Dead.Most of my friends stopped here and never sought further.They are still listening to the same music although most of them have lost their passion for music.I believe they lost their passion because they stayed put.We may begin by sharing the tastes of our generation..all the flotsam and jetsam of what is fashionable and popular...but to discover something special one has to 'break on through to the others side'.Billie Holiday and Ella Fitzgerald are not from my generation.They were singing 30-35 years before I got into music.Yet at some point I,like many others,discovered them,and personally I am of the opinion that 99.99 % of the 'great' singers of the 20th century are not worth even one song of Ella or Lady Day.
To be popular does not require merit.Rather what is required is a mediocrity which will appeal to a large number of people with questionable/no taste.I have always used 'popularity' as a measure for 'mediocrity' and in most cases it holds true.So the fact that everybody is talking about M or J or whoever happens to be the new kid on the block does not hold any water.Similarly,it is completely irrelevant if an album scores big on some awards/charts/etc.Most of that stuff is hype and froth and should be ignored!
This post is rambling a bit but basically what I want to say is that if you want to discover 'treasures' you have to 'walk on the wild side' in music and in everything else in life!
*Classical music/literature/paintings survived not because they are 'abstract' but because they are universal and eternal.They may have been 'unpopular' or 'unknown' at the time of their birth,as they were far ahead of their time, but ultimately they permeate the entire universe,where as,what was merely fashionable or popular is discarded and forgotten within a couple of generations.

Hmmm. that strikes a chord somewhere. Have gone through the same cycle (except the first one of yours, cliff richard and all..). Oh and I also had a metal phase, still listen to it from time to time. Right now I am exploring blues, jazz and classical, blues being my favourite at the moment... lets see where the journey takes me

 

[ajay124]

@doors666
I have for long wanted to venture down the 'blues' highway,but never got beyond the conventional Clapton/Vaughan/Mayall lane!Have done a bit of Muddy Waters/Robert Johnson/Buddy Guy but never stayed with it.
Never had a 'metal' phase.Rock is noisy enough!Heavy metal rock would be torture!

 

[doors666]

@doors666
I have for long wanted to venture down the 'blues' highway,but never got beyond the conventional Clapton/Vaughan/Mayall lane!Have done a bit of Muddy Waters/Robert Johnson/Buddy Guy but never stayed with it.
Never had a 'metal' phase.Rock is noisy enough!Heavy metal rock would be torture!

Got bored of the claptons of the world very fast, still listen to them once in a while, but its becoming rarer and rarer. I find even metal more interesting
Best blues guys died when clapton was playing 'gilli danda'. The Greatest musicians of the 20th century were all in the first half of the 20th century. No one in the second half turned out to be as good, be it jazz or blues. ah hell, there might be one or two exceptions, and if I dont add this line, people will kill me:lol:

Even more boring for me was the two of the biggest bands of all time, beatles and rolling stones. Never ever liked the stones, and cant listen to beatles more than once/twice in a year All their songs sound pretty much the same.. No offense guys, its just my preference. Still love floyd, doors, hendrix, who and zep though.

 

[ajay124]

@doors666
I would s-t-r-e-t-c-h the first half to 1970 or so.And not just for music,but for movies,books and paintings too!Precisely why everything went downhill after that would need a sociological/political/historical/economic treatise!
And maybe,instead of being too confident about our preferences,I would also give credence to hrd.hrishikesh's notion that we simply belong to a different generation.
Personally I hold Hollywood/Bollywood/Television responsible for the general dumbing down of our entire planet.Manufacturing 'art' -music,books,films,has been turned into a factory where volumes dictate everything and quality is irrelevant.
I don't know how much you are into jazz but some ESSENTIAL albums you could check out.
John Coltrane
Blue Trane
Giant Steps
My Favourite Things
A Love Supreme
Crescent
Charlie Parker
With Strings-Master Takes
Complete Savoy Master Takes
Complete Verve Master Takes
Jazz At Massey Hall
Louis Armstrong
Complete Hot Five Hot 7
Great Summit-Master Takes(With Duke Ellington)
Any remastered anthology
Duke Ellington
Dizzy Gillespie
Lester Young
Coleman Hawkins
Art Tatum
Roy Eldridge
Ben Webster
Ella Fitzgerald
Billie Holiday
Nina Simone
Any remastered Anthology
Miles Davis
Birth of The Cool
A Kind Of Blue
Sketches Of Spain
Porgy & Bess
Miles Ahead
Any Remastered Anthology
Oscar Peterson
Night Train
We Got Requests
Live In Russia
Live In Paris
Live At The Stratford Shakesperean Festival
The Giants(With Joe Pass,Ray Brown)
Clifford Brown
At Basin Street(With Max Roach)
Study In Brown
Thelonious Monk
Live At the It Club
With John Coltrane
With Sonny Rollins
Plays Duke Ellington
Brilliant Corners
Ornette Coleman
Shape Of Jazz To Come
This Is Our Music
Cannonball Adderley
Somethin' Else
Dexter Gordon
Live At The Left Bank
Live At The Village Vanguard
Charles Mingus
Black Saint And The Sinner Lady
The Clown
Epitaph
Art Blakey
Night In Tunisia
Night At Birdland
Bud Powell(Hunting for these cd's)
Amazing Bud Powell
Tempus Fugue-It
Eric Dolphy
Out There
Out To Lunch
Cecil Taylor(Hunting for these cd's.)
Unit Structures
World Of Cecil Taylor
Dave Brubeck
Time Out
Stanley Turrentine
Chip Of The Old Block
Salt Song
Sugar
Joe Pass
Virtuoso 1,2,3
Django Reinhardt
Any remastered Anthology(Especially With Stephane Grapelli)
Paco De Lucia
Concierto De Aranjuez
Gold-Compilation
Friday Night In San Francisco(With Al Di Meola,John Mclaughlin)
Al Di Meola
Return To Forever(Romantic Warrior)
Best-Manhattan Years
George Benson
Breezin
Bad Benson
Body Talk
Any Anthology
With a good system(with BOTH Solid State and Tube options)and ALL of this music Nirvana(The Audio Variety) CAN be achieved!

 

[moktan]

Ajay..been listening to a lot of Coltrane of late..especially Live in Japan and The Olatunji Concert.. Pharoah Sander's dissonant solos have transported me to another world..always felt that while Miles may have it musically ..listening to Coltrane is very much a spiritual experience...
what i was wondering however was that in this thread there is so much being said about the jazz of all the canonical figures (armstrong, duke, parker, gillispie, trane, miles..etc) but very little about the contemporary scene...is it because of lack of access or purists stances ..
would love to get some recommendations about the contemporary scene..of course i listen to radio ASCAP jazz (it helped me discover acts like Ninth and Lincoln etc)..but that is nothing compared to listening to an album or even better a body of work...

 

[ajay124]

Ajay..been listening to a lot of Coltrane of late..especially Live in Japan and The Olatunji Concert.. Pharoah Sander's dissonant solos have transported me to another world..always felt that while Miles may have it musically ..listening to Coltrane is very much a spiritual experience...
what i was wondering however was that in this thread there is so much being said about the jazz of all the canonical figures (armstrong, duke, parker, gillispie, trane, miles..etc) but very little about the contemporary scene...is it because of lack of access or purists stances ..
would love to get some recommendations about the contemporary scene..of course i listen to radio ASCAP jazz (it helped me discover acts like Ninth and Lincoln etc)..but that is nothing compared to listening to an album or even better a body of work...

Personally I am happier with Coltrane/Elvin Jones/Jimmy Garrison/Mccoy Tyner,rather than his Pharoah Sanders/Rashid Ali (free jazz )later period.I have most of it on cd and I appreciate the sense of adventure,but not sure whether the later music can compare with Giant Steps or My Favourite Things.
*Forgot Sonny Rollins in the above list!
Sonny Rollins
Way Out West
Saxophone Collossus
Horn Culture
Freedom Suite
Sound Of Sonny
On Impulse

 

[moktan]

the two that i would have included in that list ..wayne shorter and herbbie hancock...about the later , there was a time when i used to listen to nothing but herbbie...
anyway i somehow dig the free flowing, dissonant charged, atmospherics of free jazz and hence my fascination for cecil taylor live at the village vanguard, davis live at the filmore east and the aforementioned offerings of coltrane..
my two pence..am keeping my ear and mind open for more modern stuff...

 

[moktan]

i once listened to a village boy blowing on a leaf..you know when you place a leaf or a finger or a reed in your mouth and blow you get the a sound, it isn't exactly music but it isn't noise either..listening to pharoah sanders was kind of like listening to a musical equivalent of Paul Klee's Twittering Machine (okay his sax didn't twitter..but you get the point)...it wasn't childish..kind of child like (the child though was definitely a boy)...it was also like the squeal of a pig being slaughtered..not music, not noise but definitely no mere sound...
sorry if i didn't make any sense..

 

[ajay124]

@Moktan
My limited experience with post 70's jazz-Miles Davis,John Mclaughlin,Chick Correa,Billie Cobham,Herbie Hancock,Jean Luc Ponty,Weather Report etc has me yawning from the word go.Miles Davis started the fusion wagon rolling with 'Bitches Brew'.BB's success pushed jazz into the 'fusion' mode.Sounds intereresting for a few minutes and a b-o-r-e afterwards.Have never liked any jazz+rock,jazz+hindustani classical or the attempts by many hindustani classical 'stars' to reach out to a world audience by bringing in 'foreign' instruments and musicians.There is no mention of modern jazz from me as I can't recollect a single post 70's album which I consider memorable.Have 'casually' heard Keith Jarret,Pat Methany,Wynton Marsalis,Michel Petrucciani and others but never been impressed enough to buy anything.Would definitely be interested in learning from modern jazz fans.And maybe I will also begin researching/listening/buying modern jazz.Would be nice to discover some new,great sounding jazz....
*Jazz | AllAboutJazz.com
*'sorry if I didn't make any sense'....When an artist or a fan is trying to reach out towards something new,something which is still a 'dream' and not 'real',one frequently does not make sense as there are still no words to describe it.The cinema of Andrei Tarkovsky (for me the only cinema I can watch with a true sense of wonder) is like this 'dream' waiting to be born.Far better to occasionally inhabit this dream than to be constantly imprisoned in the mundane,cut and dried reality of our everyday lives....Hope I'm making sense!
Tarkovsky....
http://theendofbeing.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/f9d93dcc-616e-4576-adbc-11ce5f52c6ed1.jpg
http://www.wileywiggins.com/ts9.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_hJf6EghW5...aDuaBzk/s1600/stalker+by+andrei+tarkovsky.jpg
http://dialogues.stjohndfw.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/tarkovsky.jpg

 

[panditji]

Ajay, try listening to Chris Botti and Rick Braun (Sax) and Peter White (Guitar) and let me know your feedback

I am from the opposite camp as I find jazz before 1970 a bore with the exception of Bossa Nova....
I read that you like McCoy Tyner and would like you to compare his rendition of Burt Bachcharach classics along with Stan Getz and some other modern/smooth jazz artists such as Pamela Williams, Rick Braun....the sounds are completely different....
Would love to hear your feedback on them

 

[ajay124]

Ajay, try listening to Chris Botti and Rick Braun (Sax) and Peter White (Guitar) and let me know your feedback

I am from the opposite camp as I find jazz before 1970 a bore with the exception of Bossa Nova....
I read that you like McCoy Tyner and would like you to compare his rendition of Burt Bachcharach classics along with Stan Getz and some other modern/smooth jazz artists such as Pamela Williams, Rick Braun....the sounds are completely different....
Would love to hear your feedback on them

Took a listen of Chris Boti,Rick Braun and Peter White ..where else? You Tube..Quickest place to check out the sound and look of any musician.Times have really changed was the first thought in my head.The emphasis is TOTALLY on producing pleasing,easy sounding,creamy music.Music which does not tax the ear or the brain.This is jazz as mainstream music!.This is jazz which can sell in millions and win multiple Grammy's.But it does does not have the edge,the spark,the creativity which made Duke,Satchmo,Bird and Co.special.The audience is a demanding,assertive and powerful master.It insists that the Artist comes down to their level.It does not tolerate any diversion from the norm.It celebrates and rewards mediocrity.There are very few artists who can comfortably wear two shoes-commercial and creative.Nat King Cole,George Benson and who else?
Sorry panditji.Since you wanted my feedback I am trying to be completely honest about it.Otherwise there would be no point to the discussion.Personally I did not like Rick Braun or Peter White.Too bland and unadventurous for my taste.Chris Boti is kind of nice although I don't think he is even trying to blow in the Miles,Dizzy or Clifford league.
Just my opinion.Has the same weight and authority as yours .So please no hard feelings!
Some of the stuff I heard
YouTube - Yo Yo Ma & Chris Botti
YouTube - Rick Braun - Nightwalk
YouTube - Caravan of Dreams - Peter White
Some stuff I like which I played for comparison
YouTube - Miles Davis & Charlie Parker - A Night in Tunisia
YouTube - George Benson - Breezin'
YouTube - John Coltrane - My Favorite Things
(The Coltrane track for me is the GREATEST single track from the 20th Century).If you don't like it,please say so.I promise I won't mind.

 

[malvai]

(The Coltrane track for me is the GREATEST single track from the 20th Century).If you don't like it,please say so.I promise I won't mind.

Mine too! In comparison, the Botti& Yo Yo version is ahem... just Yo Yo, sorry i meant so so!

 

[moktan]

i have quite a few...
Parkers Mood..sublime..
also departing from jazz...Hendrix's Star Spangled Banner at Woodstock..it wasn't just the music but the politics (the only thing close is Md Ali at the Olympics)...

 

[ajay124]

i have quite a few...
Parkers Mood..sublime..
also departing from jazz...Hendrix's Star Spangled Banner at Woodstock..it wasn't just the music but the politics (the only thing close is Md Ali at the Olympics)...

Jimi Hendrix!
Have not heard much of him lately.But I have always felt that in the pantheons of rock music Jimi is Zeus!Dosen't sound like anyone else,has an 'electric' energy,a raw and creative edge which may be too hot to handle at times,but is never boring.
Are You Experienced,Electric Ladyland,Bold As Love...VVS!My favorite Jimi is All Along The Watchtower.Also like the Dylan(original) and the Neil Young version.
Is James Brown to vocals what Jimi Hendrix is to the electric guitar?

 

[doors666]

Jimi Hendrix!
Have not heard much of him lately.But I have always felt that in the pantheons of rock music Jimi is Zeus!Dosen't sound like anyone else,has an 'electric' energy,a raw and creative edge which may be too hot to handle at times,but is never boring.
Are You Experienced,Electric Ladyland,Bold As Love...VVS!My favorite Jimi is All Along The Watchtower.Also like the Dylan(original) and the Neil Young version.
Is James Brown to vocals what Jimi Hendrix is to the electric guitar?

I keep revisiting jimi every now and then. just cant get enough of him.

 

[ajay124]

Twnety Five CD set of Jazz for 2499/-
Mixed bag,but great value for money considering that most of these cd's individually,would cost 300-500.
Rhythm House Product Details