Help in building HTPC/Server

[neo]

Hey! Bhaskie

Yes I hope the config I decide on doesnt end up being outdated by the time I end up ordering the HTPC.

For the sound card the Asus Xonar seems to be a good choice? But it seems will have to loads of research before deciding.

I had a AMD pc about 5 yrs ago & it used to heat up a lot & used to run a lot slower as a result. After 10mnths of its use the processors & the mother board (ASUS) both got spoilt & I got the processors replaced but I was unable to get the same mother board. As there was a new MOBO design but my old processor didnt match.

Cheers.

 

[neo]

No worries mate i guess it's good to confused before than latter.

I am sorry if I am adding to the confusion. I was only stating what I had done/doing with my system since I listen to music on my PC having moved/in the process of moving all my CD collection to the PC.

Coming to the Asus Xonar for its cost of $200 you could also get a sound card with digital out (Rs. 1200 to Rs. 1500 I think) and an external DAC like the Beresford for $100 that will also come in handy for handling more inputs/sources. This works out cheaper than the Squeezebox too.

Finally, would not agree about mp3 being garbage. I make no claims of being an audiophile but I do know my music and I can certainly say most will be hard pressed to tell the difference for mp3s ripped at 320 to 384 kbps at VBR on a mid-fi system and I would no way categorize a HTPC as high-end hardware by any stretch of my imagination at least not for audio. Hopefully not starting flaming here, but that's IMHO.

 

[thevortex]

Neo - what you say of AMD processors was true with the past generation models. With the new X2 breed of processors, AMD is quite good and I can tell you that they run quite cool. The choice of AMD has been put forth because of one reason and one reason only. Cost effectiveness. For a lower cost you get a dual core CPU which is more than sufficient for a HTPC. The fastest CPU tag still belongs to Intel - it is just that that sort of power is not needed for a HTPC.

About the soundcard if you are looking at professional sound production then you may want to check out cards such as the EMU, MAudio among others. If you are looking at enjoying audio, I believe the Xonar is as good as it gets as of now - more so if you are not looking at a surround sound gaming solution especially in Vista. If you are looking for a surround sound gaming solution in Vista you may be better off with a Creative X-Fi chip based sound card like the Auzentech Prelude.

Also your current budget is way overkill in my opinion. If you mark up 30000 you should be able to get all the components and can even fit in an economic TV tuner card if you are not looking at dual or hybrid tuners. Of course this does not include the monitor/LCD panel. I suppose you could use your LCD TV if you have one by connecting it to the HTPC. That would be ideal.

Please do not compromise on three things for a HTPC - Cabinet, Power Supply, Motherboard and Sound card. The rest of the things are not as intrinsically important as these.

 

[neo]

Hey! Vortex thanks for reducing the budget

Im going to make 2 HTPCs one of which is for a friend. In both the cases the HTPC is going to be attached to stereo system only & not a Home theatre. My friend's set up is going to be
1.Pioneer Plasma
2.Neeper Acoustics Speakers
3.Krell / Holfi amplification.
4.Pioneer DVD/LD Player
5.Primare/HolFi/ Blue Note Koala Cd player/ or a professional Apogee Mini DAC with some transport. (Suggestions welcome 3&5)
6.Transparent/Kimber Cabling.
7.HTPC

My set up is
1.Tannoy System 1200 spk
2.Gamut pre & MC2 power
3.Transparen/Kimber cables.
4.Oppo 983 DVD player
5.Panna Plasma
The rest is still undecided.

The Priority for the getting a HTPC is 1.Music 2. Net downloads 3. Video 4. Rarely gaming.

Now some more questions???????
Sound quality is most imp but I guess it would be unwise to expect the HTPC to sound as good as a 50k or1lac+ cd player

Is the M-Audio or EMU better at sound then the ASUS?

I had read on this forum about the cabinets having controls for volume etc which one are they? Are they any good? Do they have remotes?Will the remote support software such as winamp etc? Or will the controls be through the keyboard & mouse?

What are power supplies & MOBOs that I should look at?

TIA
Cheers

 

[moserw]

Hey Moser!What is your set up? Is it mentioned anywhere on this forum?
Pl give link or details.
Thanks

I upgraded my PC a month or so ago and here are the details.

Intel Dual Core Processor for Rs. 3400 with 3 years warranty at Intel Pentium Processor - Specifications

Intel MB for Rs. 3400 with 3 years warranty at Intel Desktop Board DG31PR - Overview

Transcend 2 GB RAM for Rs. 1600 with 1 year warranty.

Seagate 500 GB SATA HDD for Rs. 3300 with 5 years warranty.

A Frontech SMPS for Rs. 450.

I already have a 250 GB SATA HDD that's about 6 months old. You do get 1 TB HDD, but wait a while before you pick one up, some issues/complaints about the 1 TB HDD, but they might have been addressed by now.

My system is mainly for blogging, browsing, and my music collection so I have got Audioengine A5 at Audioengine - Upgrade your music but awaiting their delivery from the U.S. They cost around 17-18K or so.

I have a Creative Sound Blaster 24-Bit external sound card, but only with analog out so more or less decided on the Asus Xonar, but have decided to hold on till I get the Audioengine A5 to check them out first.

In addition, I also have an NVIDIA graphics card that I use for gaming, but it can also alternate as a TV Tuner card. A new card will cost from 5-8K.

An LCD monitor will be around 9-10K.

Other

 

[bhaskie]

Hey! Bhaskie

Yes I hope the config I decide on doesnt end up being outdated by the time I end up ordering the HTPC.

For the sound card the Asus Xonar seems to be a good choice? But it seems will have to loads of research before deciding.

I had a AMD pc about 5 yrs ago & it used to heat up a lot & used to run a lot slower as a result. After 10mnths of its use the processors & the mother board (ASUS) both got spoilt & I got the processors replaced but I was unable to get the same mother board. As there was a new MOBO design but my old processor didnt match.

Cheers.

dude everything gets outdated! you just have to be satisfied with the end result. e.g. you buy a SATA bluray drive for 10K which is read only and 4x, this will get outdated in 6 months when new drives come out. In case of sound cards, there is a lot of research going on, Auzentech is going to release the 7.1 Hometheater card this month (hopefully), Asus is going to throw some more cards this year as well hopefully, the list goes on.

Most important thing - Get the best bang for the buck CPU (extra gigahertz won't make the HTPC rock), a VERY good motherboard, and the best sound card for your requirements.

Research is very important for just one reason - you end up with shite if you don't do it properly - losing a lot of money in the process.
For example, if you motherboard has a very good sound chip and you are able to output bit-perfect non-resampled audio via spdif, DONT buy the sound card immediately. Maybe borrow one from someone, or read the various forums for comparisons before taking the plunge.

On the AMD front, I have been using AMD processors for the last 10 yrs now. Earlier the cheap AMD's used to have heating issues, but I always had the best ones, and also very good motherboards (I used to get ASUS/MSI mobos from distributors/importers in Delhi since they were never found in any stores). Also getting a good thermal paste and applying it properly before plugging the CPU really helps. Checking the CPU fan and shutting down the machine in case of CPU overheating prevents frying the mobo/cpu bottomline - i had done research on how to prevent the frying and in the process saved a good amount of money (since the intel CPU's and motherboards with comparable features were a lot more expensive - at least 6-8K)

~Bhaskie

 

[moserw]

Also a new DVD Writer around 1K to Rs. 1200.

For audio the Asus Xonar has some very good reviews and rated nearly the best as of now.

Yes, SQ will be very good on a PC and comparable with a CDP, but do note you need good speakers. You cannot expect PC speakers to really compete with a 2.0/2.1 speaker system.

I had a pair of Altec Lansing 2.0 that I got from Singapore that performed very well for many years, but I did have to pay premium for them. I have even heard the Logitech Z5500, they are THX certified and have great bass, but cost in the 18K range or so. But yes its possible to get the same SQ from a PC as from a CDP especially for lossless formats like flac, wav, etc.

 

[thevortex]

Neo,

Now that you mention stereo amplifiers such as Krell, I am not sure whether the sound that you would get out of a soundcard such as the Xonar would be better than the one you would get through the Krell!

My comparison has always been with AV Receivers and I can confidently say that the sound quality obtained is better than Receivers even approaching the Rs. 1 lakh mark. I have not compared this with stereo amplifiers. When you are spending on a decent sound card the output to be taken from the HTPC has to be analogue. If you are reduced to taking a digital out then there is no need for costly sound cards. Maybe somebody else can pitch in with a comparison of the sound quality between the sound cards in question and the stereo amplifiers mentioned. (Neo - please mention model numbers)

As far as sound quality comparisong with a CD Player goes, I do believe that a good HTPC setup such as the one described in this thread should be able to compete very well with much higher priced CD players. However, personally I have no experience with CD players costing around the 1 lakh mark. Again, there is a need for the hifi experts to chip in. All I can say out of experience that it grinds the CD players I have heard such as the Marantz 6002 etc. into dust. And I am told that the Marantz is actually a good player.

Plus factor in the convenience you get by being able to create virtually inexhaustible playlists as compared to changing CDs every hour or so.

Regarding comparison with M-Audio or EMU, looking at the specs and reviews, I did carefully eliminate these brands in favour of the ASUS Xonar. On paper the Xonar did beat these other cards and in practice too I am very happy with the output. But I have not used an M-Audio or EMU soundcard. Users who have may chip in.

Regarding cabinets I would suggest looking at three brands - Antec, Thermaltake and Coolermaster. Coolermaster has lifestyle cabinets which have volume controls and can be placed horizontally while still retaining ATX size - which is important so as to allow you to fit TV Tuner cards as well as Audio cards. Antec has the NSK2480, but I could not obtain it here in Chennai. So I went for the 4480 - which has the same features except that it stands up vertically like a conventional case. Both the Antecs feature 80+ rated power supplies which is what you should be looking at. The rating simply means that you get steady power supply to all the items in your CPU at a very less noise level. It is amazing how much work has gone into the making of cabinets nowadays. Even with everything in my HT room off I can hardly tell if the computer is on or not purely based on sound.

If you are looking for an AMD based configuration, which I believe would be the right (read less costly) way to go for a HTPC, you could check out any of the 790G chipset based boards.

 

[venkatcr]

Sound quality is most imp but I guess it would be unwise to expect the HTPC to sound as good as a 50k or1lac+ cd player

Neo to carry one from what TheVortex has said, IF you use a lossless file, and keep everything else the same, you cannot make out a difference between an expensive CD Player and a HTPC based song. Stereophile has tired this umpteen times both subjectively and through extensive testing. They have not been able to make out any difference. Technically a lossless file and the one on a CD are identical bit for bit. So they will sound the same, if you keep everything else the same in the chain.

Cheers

 

[psychotropic]

hi venkat, could you link me to these stereophile stories? i will also hunt for them. Thanks in advance.

Neo to carry one from what TheVortex has said, IF you use a lossless file, and keep everything else the same, you cannot make out a difference between an expensive CD Player and a HTPC based song. Stereophile has tired this umpteen times both subjectively and through extensive testing. They have not been able to make out any difference. Technically a lossless file and the one on a CD are identical bit for bit. So they will sound the same, if you keep everything else the same in the chain.

Cheers

 

[psychotropic]

hi vortex, can you tell me the config of the HTPC that beat the Marantz 6002? at least which soundcard you used? and what amplification you used for the comparison?

Neo,
Again, there is a need for the hifi experts to chip in. All I can say out of experience that it grinds the CD players I have heard such as the Marantz 6002 etc. into dust. And I am told that the Marantz is actually a good player.

 

[neo]

Thanks a lot guys.I'm finally alot clearer atleast on the path to be taken. But will def have to a bit more reasearch & aslo see what's available in here in surat & mumbai. I guess i'll have another round of questions after that.

@ Vortex sorry for not puting in the model details earlier.The model's details are as bellow.
the spk

http://http://www.neeper-acoustics.com/

The amps
Krell 400xi-Arnd Rs 1.5l

or the Hofi 8s integrated arnd 1.3l

http://http://www.holfi.com/default.aspx?m=products&id=c786858a-5e2f-4516-b0f4-e7f34ca91dc6


Th cables will mostly be the transparent super wave plus or the kimber 8TC.
The interconnects are undecided.

The spk amp combo will mostly be decided by the next weekend.

Cheers.

 

[neo]

Hey! This what my Computer guy came up with.

Intel Core I7 System
Processor: Intel Core I7 Processor 920
Motherboard: Intel X58 Motherboard
Memory: 3 GB DDR 3 1066 Mhz Matched Sync Memory
Display Card: ATI HD 4870 x2 with 1 gb memory or Nvidia 9800 x2 with 1 gb
Casing: Cooler Master Elite with 650 Watts server grade smps
Keyboard Mouse: Logitech wireless
Audio : Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 with True HD and Dolby DTS Master Support
Hard Disk : 1 terabyte 7200 rpm raptor western digital with 32mb cache
Optical Drive : 6X Blue Ray Writer / reader with HD DVD Reader
Price : Rs 1,15,000/-

What do guys think of it?
Is the pricing right?
What changes can be made to the config except may be the AMD processor, not sure how much will that save??
Does any body know where can the thremaltake stuff be sourced in india??

TIA
Cheers

 

[bhaskie]

Getting a 3.2 gigs quad core CPU and somthing like the Asus P6T dlx mobo will cost you a lot of money. I honestly don't see the reason you are getting such a high end combo when all the HD processing will be done by separate cards (pci-e cards you are getting). IMHO you can just pocket the money and get better speakers.

I would anyday suggest an AMD processor, gigabyte/asus mobo combo and 2 gigs ram (1 gig each in 2 dimms) for the base system, then get pci-express cards as required.

Also, why the 1 gig display card? why not 512mb? what additional benefits are you gonna get with it?

Also, I would get two 500 gigs HD (i prefer seagate) instead of one 1TB drive. you can switch one out and still have the OS in the other, and probability of failure gets halved! moreover the terabyte drives still have a lot of complaints.

dont get me wrong but your guy seems to be suggesting you the most expensive box you can get... you should be able to save at least 20% and still get the same quality.

Hey! This what my Computer guy came up with.

Intel Core I7 System
Processor: Intel Core I7 Processor 920
Motherboard: Intel X58 Motherboard
Memory: 3 GB DDR 3 1066 Mhz Matched Sync Memory
Display Card: ATI HD 4870 x2 with 1 gb memory or Nvidia 9800 x2 with 1 gb
Casing: Cooler Master Elite with 650 Watts server grade smps
Keyboard Mouse: Logitech wireless
Audio : Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 with True HD and Dolby DTS Master Support
Hard Disk : 1 terabyte 7200 rpm raptor western digital with 32mb cache
Optical Drive : 6X Blue Ray Writer / reader with HD DVD Reader
Price : Rs 1,15,000/-

What do guys think of it?
Is the pricing right?
What changes can be made to the config except may be the AMD processor, not sure how much will that save??
Does any body know where can the thremaltake stuff be sourced in india??

TIA
Cheers

 

[thevortex]

Hey! This what my Computer guy came up with.

Intel Core I7 System
Processor: Intel Core I7 Processor 920
Motherboard: Intel X58 Motherboard
Memory: 3 GB DDR 3 1066 Mhz Matched Sync Memory
Display Card: ATI HD 4870 x2 with 1 gb memory or Nvidia 9800 x2 with 1 gb
Casing: Cooler Master Elite with 650 Watts server grade smps
Keyboard Mouse: Logitech wireless
Audio : Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 with True HD and Dolby DTS Master Support
Hard Disk : 1 terabyte 7200 rpm raptor western digital with 32mb cache
Optical Drive : 6X Blue Ray Writer / reader with HD DVD Reader
Price : Rs 1,15,000/-

What do guys think of it?
Is the pricing right?
What changes can be made to the config except may be the AMD processor, not sure how much will that save??
Does any body know where can the thremaltake stuff be sourced in india??

TIA
Cheers

This is way overkill, neo. Bhaskie talks about 20% - I am not sure. You should be able to setup a very good HTPC with nothing more than 30000 minus the monitor. No compromise whatsoever.

For configuration please see posts earlier where Bhaskie and I have given entire configurations. You definitely dont need this level of either processor power or motherboard functionality. HTPC is not about brute processing. It is about doing one thing best - visual and audio media delivery.

Also what is the point in having a dual display configuration as well as the Xonar HDAV??? Actually what is the point in having a display card at all?

Also the optical Blu Ray drive alone might be costing about 20000 rs. You might want to rethink that. Or if you do believe that you would be playing Blu Ray discs through the HTPC then you can have that. As otherwise this is not the system you need for a HTPC. This is a fantastic gaming rig! One that I would love to have But even for that I would not get the Xonar HDAV plus those display cards. That does not make any sense.

 

[thevortex]

hi vortex, can you tell me the config of the HTPC that beat the Marantz 6002? at least which soundcard you used? and what amplification you used for the comparison?

I used the same configuration that was detailed out earlier in one of these posts To summarize it there was an AMD X2 5400+ with a Gigabyte MA78GM2SH board, an Antec NSK4480 cabinet with a 80+ rated power supply and the Xonar D2X. These are the main components.

The sound card I used was the ASUS Xonar D2X and for amplification I connected the analogue outs to my Marantz SR4001 - an AV Receiver providing 80 watts of power.

This provided me a view as to how big a giant killer the PSB Alphas really were.

 

[moserw]

Seems a lot of money neo. For 30-35K you would have a PC that would do everything required of it for at least the next 1-2 years.

 

[prashant_dv]

Hi neo,

i have been using my comp as HTPC for quite sometime now. Have the following config

Intel Core 2 Quad 6600 Processor 2.4 GHZ
Intel DG 33FB Motherboard
Transcend 2 x 2GB = 4GB RAM
1 x 250 GB IDE SEAGATE
1 x 250 GB SATA
1 x 500 GB SATA
1 CD-Writer

M-Audio Audiophile 2496 Audio card
22" Dell TFT Monitor.
Custom RCA - RCA connector cable from computer to AVR ( Denon ).
I dont have the requirement for an extensive graphics card and am using the inbuilt VGA on the motherboard.

I use this setup mainly for music & sometime to watch downloaded movies ( includes DIVX, Bluray RIP - mkv formats)

The system alone costed me 36K and the M-audio soundcard + the custom cable costed me 10K extra..

I would go along with the other guys: dont buy the 1TB disk coz you risk a Single Point of failure, buy multiple disks of 500 GB each and configure them using SATA Raid if you want data protection.

Yep, i am quite happy with the M-audio Performance and I mainly download FLAC format files from the internet and either burn them or listen direcly on the COMP.

let me know if you need more info, could try to help you..

//Regards

 

[thevortex]

A Core2Quad and 4 GB RAM - you can even do music production on this machine You have got way more than what you need if this is going to be just a HTPC, Prashant

 

[prashant_dv]

Vortex - i do agree with you.

My main purpose of this system is for my R&D on server technology, since my day to day work is on servers and hence for new learnings etc.. mainly to run Virtual Server softwares.

But right now, most of my time is only spent on listening to songs/watching movies and downloading them off the net .. i got a couple of such music production softwares along with my M-Audio card, but havent installed even a single one from them..

two reasons a) i am a bit lazy b) i am running x64 version of Windows XP pro which makes installation of many softwares difficult unless they come with a 64 bit version driver.

and if you have more than 3 GB RAM, you need to have 64bit Windows otherwise 32bit windows cannot recognize more than 3GB and your system will automatically limit you on that

But i will try those music creation software..

btw.. do you download FLAC.. if yes, which site are you using.. i currently use isohunt.com and thepiratebay.org and also warez-bb.org

let me know if you are aware of any good sites for download

//regards