lightgamer
Well-Known Member
That's really weird! I have the alert turned on for it yet in my notifications that isn't there. On the other hand, quotes do give me notifications.
Help me choose between these 55 inch TVs
- Thread starter Infamous
- Start date
That's really weird! I have the alert turned on for it yet in my notifications that isn't there. On the other hand, quotes do give me notifications.
harryneopotter
Well-Known Member
I don't mean to be harsh/rude but here's the thing guys: This deal wasn't too good to be true because the final price happened via negotiation, he quoted 84k at first which sounds reasonable (the TV retailed for around 120k 2 years ago). Its funny because if I hadn't negotiated, everyone here would have been a bit more trusting of this same dealer
Yes I agree that the Croma piece must be a display one but I leveraged that fact and brought down his price. Most consumers think of Televisions as computing devices and think that old is outdated so maybe the dealer was having a hard time getting rid of these TVs which he bought from his sources. Maybe that worked in my favor too.
Before I started going to stores I saw this video:
This guy got 70% off on a 65 inch Samsung QLED Q7FN when it was a year old. He inspired me to get good at negotiation. I'd recommend everyone here to watch this video.
I read some people advising like just buy a Toshiba/Hisense or pay more and I hear you guys. As a country we are in kind of a deadlock when it comes to tech. On one hand, most people would love to avoid Chinese brands but then there is huge damn tax on the big brands and even they want max profits. But personally, as an electronics engineer, tech politics/monopolies get way too personal for me. When I found VU TVs are rebranded Hisense, I got disgusted to my core. We got ONE Indian company who's making its name for making decent budget sets and it turns out to be a white labelled piece of garbage. Like have some self respect man. Be better! Maybe that's why they shifted to Mumbai after starting in California. They knew their shit won't work in the states. I say all this and VU's CEO is probably laughing her way to the bank. The company will probably shut down now that Hisense/Toshiba has entered the market but they already made enough money to sustain a generation or two - just like Micromax. And people will keep doing this shit. Keep treating us as dumping grounds of tech and culture and make money off of us.
(BTW just for those who don't know: Hisense owns the TV division of Toshiba. And Hisense itself is owned and controlled by the Chinese government)
That's why I am being stubborn about this. I want something from the big 3 and I don't want to pay too much for it. Maybe "keep your cake and eat it too" logic but yeah, that's how it is for me in this situation. Especially after seeing examples like in the video.
I am not saying all this to justify myself but I would like you guys to apply this attitude too. Negotiate more. Find different ways to get good stuff when you can't afford it. Ironically, I haven't been successful so far incase of my TV hunt. The Q60R is now out of stock at RD. Why would that salesman give me a better deal when there are always people who will still pay last year's price? Like that poor guy who got yellow bleeding issues on his Q60R. He paid around 84k where I rejected to buy at 67k.
One thing maybe I did wrong was I started late since the right time to grab old models is right when new models are going to launch. Will probably buy the X7500H now. Sorry for the rant guys. Kind of being a nuisance but I just had to get it out.
But yeah on a positive note, I am genuinely happy about the Toshiba U79. Politics aside, atleast they are giving us what they give the rest of the world. Hope they do more. This will improve the standards for tech and even the big 3 would follow and keep their prices sane.
lightgamer
Well-Known Member
I don't mean to be harsh/rude but here's the thing guys: This deal wasn't too good to be true because the final price happened via negotiation, he quoted 84k at first which sounds reasonable (the TV retailed for around 120k 2 years ago). Its funny because if I hadn't negotiated, everyone here would have been a bit more trusting of this same dealer
Yes I agree that the Croma piece must be a display one but I leveraged that fact and brought down his price. Most consumers think of Televisions as computing devices and think that old is outdated so maybe the dealer was having a hard time getting rid of these TVs which he bought from his sources. Maybe that worked in my favor too.
Before I started going to stores I saw this video:
This guy got 70% off on a 65 inch Samsung QLED Q7FN when it was a year old. He inspired me to get good at negotiation. I'd recommend everyone here to watch this video.
I read some people advising like just buy a Toshiba/Hisense or pay more and I hear you guys. As a country we are in kind of a deadlock when it comes to tech. On one hand, most people would love to avoid Chinese brands but then there is huge damn tax on the big brands and even they want max profits. But personally, as an electronics engineer, tech politics/monopolies get way too personal for me. When I found VU TVs are rebranded Hisense, I got disgusted to my core. We got ONE Indian company who's making its name for making decent budget sets and it turns out to be a white labelled piece of garbage. Like have some self respect man. Be better! Maybe that's why they shifted to Mumbai after starting in California. They knew their shit won't work in the states. I say all this and VU's CEO is probably laughing her way to the bank. The company will probably shut down now that Hisense/Toshiba has entered the market but they already made enough money to sustain a generation or two - just like Micromax. And people will keep doing this shit. Keep treating us as dumping grounds of tech and culture and make money off of us.
(BTW just for those who don't know: Hisense owns the TV division of Toshiba. And Hisense itself is owned and controlled by the Chinese government)
That's why I am being stubborn about this. I want something from the big 3 and I don't want to pay too much for it. Maybe "keep your cake and eat it too" logic but yeah, that's how it is for me in this situation. Especially after seeing examples like in the video.
I am not saying all this to justify myself but I would like you guys to apply this attitude too. Negotiate more. Find different ways to get good stuff when you can't afford it. Ironically, I haven't been successful so far incase of my TV hunt. The Q60R is now out of stock at RD. Why would that salesman give me a better deal when there are always people who will still pay last year's price? Like that poor guy who got yellow bleeding issues on his Q60R. He paid around 84k where I rejected to buy at 67k.
One thing maybe I did wrong was I started late since the right time to grab old models is right when new models are going to launch. Will probably buy the X7500H now. Sorry for the rant guys. Kind of being a nuisance but I just had to get it out.
Usually, I do negotiate. I have gotten so many deals in the past for prices you wouldn't believe. The products I purchased 2-3 years ago are still retailing for higher prices than I bought them for.
But you need to understand basic economics this year. Due to supply chain getting totally disrupted for major part of this year, electronics are in short supply. And it's not just India. PC components are hard to find even in US, Sony can't keep up with PS5 orders, Nvidia couldn't keep the 3080 in stock for even 1 minute.
And it's not just supply, but demand is also getting higher. People are sitting at home and hence are spending more on electronics. When supply gets low and demand gets high prices move up. Even 2019 TVs cost more than they did last year.
On top of all of that, I can't go to 10 stores and bargain in the middle of pandemic. I value my life way more than maybe 10k I'll save by negotiating there.
I don't give a damn about where the TV is manufactured. Want to know a truth? Absolutely no electronics is manufactured in India. Our government has too much red tape for any manufacturing plant to succeed. Anything that says 'made in India' is just assembled here with Chinese/Taiwanese/South Korean tech.
And it's not going to get better. Even if companies are leaving China they prefer to go to Vietnam or Bangladesh because the government there are industry focused and not farming focused. So if you're some sort of patriot, maybe don't buy a TV at all. Maybe in 10 years we'll start to manufacture 720p screens in India if things improve and you can be happy to buy from a desi brand.
I also absolutely abhor bargaining with idiot middlemen over phone. The whole industry is rotten to the core and I'd rather pay my money to CCP directly than support these incompetent 'dealers'. I prefer transparent pricing and less hassle in my purchases.
Again, nothing against you. If you want an FALD TV from top 3 in 50k, go struggle and look for it. But please don't peddle the nationalistic stuff while buying electronic goods which can't be made in India anyway. You buying a TV from Samsung or Sony doesn't help the Indian economy at all. All of them are imported goods which increase our trade deficit. So if you feel like a patriot while doing it, you're nothing more than a hypocrite.
Whatever you mentioned about the state of electronics this year, I already know and agree with it a 100%. I am not really a nationalist/patriotic in the sense you're referring me as. I am simply against companies who think on the lines of "Look that is India, we can sell whatever we want there and earn lots of money". And I apply that to every damn company (our own as well as foreign). Didn't you read my statements about VU? They could've rebranded the US models for us but what did they do? And I am not a big fan of Samsung either w.r.t to their mobile market (their Exynos bs for starters).
I also did not say that there should be Indian companies only. I don't mind any company doing business here as long as they don't peddle inferior tech here. I did give credit to Hisense for launching their H8F (to the point I considered buying it myself until I felt its motion handling will be a con for me). Just give us the same stuff you give the western countries. We do make up for a large share of their businesses. The software companies have realized this, the hardware companies are now slowly realizing it too. Anyway, I know I started it but let's not discuss this further. I have a feeling I may get banned otherwise :/
Looks legit but I'd still be wary. Ask him for COD.
lightgamer
Well-Known Member
In that case, I'm okay with it. I think I misinterpreted your comment so sorry about that. Regarding VU, they are selling decent TVs at decent pricing. Indian market is a different beast compared to the US and selling 1 lakh+ TVs from an unknown brand is basically suicide. Very few Indians can afford a TV in that range. Remember that on average, Indians make 20 times less than americans. On top of that, TVs cost about 50% more here. This makes good TVs very slow moving goods. The only people who can buy it either have lots of black money and will just buy Sony/Samsung/LG anyway or are people on this forum who are either into new money or have saved and care about what they spend on. People like you and me are very very low and almost insignificant. Launching a product for us will be a stupid business decision.
No we don't. Let me give you an idea. PS4 sold 110 million units worldwide. It sold just 400k in India (that's less than 0.5% market share). Xbox one sold 50 million worldwide and just 10k in India. And remember that, PS4 sells a whole lot more than 1 lakh+ TV. You're overestimating the purchasing power of Indians for electronic goods just from the population. Only 1% of families make over 12 lakh a year, so don't judge from our population size.
Even Europe doesn't get the Vizio OLEDs or top TCLs like US market gets and gets similar to India. The reasons are similar, i.e. their government imposes heavy duties and the countries are small. The fact that a bigger(harder to manage logistics) and poorer country like India is getting similar treatment like EU markets is actually a good thing. 5-10 years ago we simply wouldn't have got the top models at all because we were too poor.
Anyway, as India advances and middle class gets bigger (currently only 8% of India is middle class, 1% upper middle class or above, and 91% low income) we will get lower taxes from government side and much more enthusiastic launches from brands. It's already happening slowly. India just needs to continue growing at 7-10% a year.
Software works fundamentally different from hardware. You can distribute it in a country without almost any cost. There's no logistics, shipping, transport, dealers and so on. Also after production, the cost per unit of software is 0... Companies can also price software lower in India and gain larger volume. That isn't possible in hardware because the margins are not 100% like in software and Indian government imposes heavy duties on top of it.
Don't worry. As long as we keep it civil and informative like this comment (and not like the previous ones) we'll be fine.
lightgamer
Well-Known Member
Looks good. If he agrees to do CoD (tell you'll pay 55k instead of 53k) buy it. Don't buy with advance. He can simply not ship to you and in the pandemic, you can't be bothered to run around a different city and register FIRs.
Also, since you're going to buy the X9000F, please note that it comes with android TV 7.0 (Nougat) from 4 years ago and runs on an older, very slow Mediatek processor. The TV lags quite a bit and you'll likely need to invest in a 4k Android TV box.
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Okay let me tell you something. I work for a hardware company. I interact with others companies too. There are 2 kinds: One who try their best and make great things happen despite all the so called restrictions here. And others who keep lamenting external factors to why they can't make a great product in our country. Most of the times, the latter are just a bunch of mediocre engineers and businessmen who rationalize their shitty skills and blame it on the country.
Anyway, coming to TVs. First of all, you can't compare them to gaming consoles. Everyone needs a TV but not everyone games and even in that consoles are a small minority. Secondly, for companies, it's all about minimizing efforts and maximizing profits. They will give the bare minimum the customers are happy to buy. I as an engineer would design the best stuff. My MBA boss would strip out the design to maximize profit. I am not saying its wrong, that's how every business operates. You give example for EU, even in US, TCL/Hisense were low tier until 2017-18. They weren't really competing with the big 3 at all before that. Once they started doing that, you can see the state of affairs today. And that is keeping the big 3 in check. They can't sell their TVs for way too higher prices when TCL is already beating them in PQ at half their price.
The import rates/taxes are all legit reasons but only as long as every player in the market sticks to that excuse. See what happened now. Hisense decided to do shake the status quo and released a good FALD set under 50k! Where are the heavy taxes/import duties now? Although the US price of $500 was still cheaper than this, this amount of difference sounds reasonable if you use the tax/import variable. But still who knows? While we have more import duties, US is heavier than India on compliance(s) whose certificates definitely add to the price. Maybe they can still give us at $500 in India as well. Its all about profit always remember that. If you are happy, they'll never lower their price.
And now you will see everyone getting in line. As long as Toshiba sticks to this plan of bringing good stuff to India that is. I am pretty sure VU is strategizing right now. They are in danger for sure. I mean what value they offer any more. People can directly get the same stuff from Hisense and even at a better price/warranty.
lightgamer
Well-Known Member
Bad analogy. Companies like TCL already have excellent TVs, so it's nothing about engineers. They just don't see the point of bringing them to India because there's not enough volume. It's all business.
I never compared consoles to TVs. I just compared Indian console sales to worldwide console sales to sshow difference in purchasing power. Not everyone plays games sure, but the distribution is the same everywhere. If anything, we in India have more unemployed youth who might turn to gaming compared to other countries.
And regarding the fact that 'everyone needs a TV' is an objectively false statement. I make good money (7 figures income tax every year) and yet I have never owned a TV because didn't feel the need for it. Only now with HDR becoming popular and monitors lagging behind do I see a 'want' for it. I know lots of people who make over 30 lacs a year and don't see the need for a TV because their phones, laptops and monitors are enough. All of them are young and 25 ish years of age. It's not like they can't afford it.
And even if everyone needs a TV, they don't need a 1 lakh one. Most folks buy the 30-40k Xiaomi, TCL, VU stuff. Such a choice doesn't exit in console so there's more reason to buy the thing. So the ratio of people buying a high end TV will be the same in India v/s world as it is for consoles, if not worse.
That's not how it happened. They were trying hard for more than 5-10 years now. It's just that catching up to high-end products and R&D takes a lot of time. If a company in India starts R&D on panel technology now and works super hard, it will still take 10+ years to catch up with the best.
Electronics and R&D is extremely hard, especially with top tier stuff. Making mediocre stuff is easy.
It still follows the 1$ = 100 INR stuff as usual. This TV doesn't do anything new, the difference just seems smaller because it's a smaller amount. These manufacturers just didn't see our market big enough for it. Now that those panels are cheap enough and Indians' incomes are rising, they see an opportunity.
If a TV costs $1 in US, it will add about 20% import duty and 18% GST in India. The total is about 42% which is $1.42 or approx 100 INR. That's why you'll never see US and Indian prices be the same unless the product is manufactured locally for cheaper.
Nobody is happy for this lol. But unless the government lowers the taxes the prices aren't coming down. You can't expect companies to take losses.
Again, this TV isn't anything special. It's better than VU sure, but it's also more expensive. VU is selling worse TVs, but it's also selling them cheaper. All it has done is come to a new segment where no one was there, which is high price but non-branded TVs.
So you get:
Below 30k: mediocre non brand TVs, garbage branded TVs
50k : Good non brand TVs (U79), mediocre branded TVs
80k-100k: Excellent non-brand TVs (U80), good branded TVs
I own the Sony 55" X9000F. Its been 2 years and it never cease to amaze me in picture quality and performance. Bought around 1.1L at RD in my city.
No slowdown or lags. All I done was just followed bunch of instructions to disable some sony background services in the TV. And importanty the automatic software update. Mine still running on the android TV 7.0 (Nougat).
It reads my 3 TB WD passports in seconds. It could fluidly play 4K HDR (using Kodi) from it. No issues so far. Never had the urge to buy a separate android TV box. Cheers
FYI, I followed the below video...
lightgamer
Well-Known Member
I own the Sony 55" X9000F. Its been 2 years and it never cease to amaze me in picture quality and performance. Bought around 1.1L at RD in my city.
No slowdown or lags. All I done was just followed bunch of instructions to disable some sony background services in the TV. And importanty the automatic software update. Mine still running on the android TV 7.0 (Nougat).
It reads my 3 TB WD passports in seconds. It could fluidly play 4K HDR (using Kodi) from it. No issues so far. Never had the urge to buy a separate android TV box. Cheers
FYI, I followed the below video...
Thanks for the excellent guide man. I was just getting second-hand info from rtings and others who reviewed Sony 2018 or before models. So I retract my statement.
For 55 inch, you get the Frame 2020 for 72k with cashback and Flipkart price is around 84k. There's also the upcoming Toshiba U80 but they have only announced the 65 inch model for 1L.
Sony has the x7500h for 71k but some guy here got it for 57k around launch period. So maybe wait till Diwali for that price. It is not worth it at 71k, Frame 2020 is way better. There's also x8000h but again, Frame is better.
That's it I guess. You can try some last year models, maybe the q70r which is quite better (its a FALD set) than the Frame but you'll have to work your negotiation skills. It definitely is in stock in Reliance Digital.
I am also looking for TV around 80K. Below TV's are in my shortlist,
1. Samsung Frame 55" - (This is the most Balanced TV covering all Aspects. It May not give the Best PQ for money but I believe it can give us overall satisfaction)
2. SONY X950G - Costlier than frame but improved PQ.
3. Toshiba U8080 - I am not sure I can invest 1 Lakh in this brand but Specs are tempting.
Sony x950G around that budget makes sense for 55 inch
iambatman28
Active Member
How will you get x95g for that price? Is it around 1L?
We can get X950G 55" at around 1 Lakh if we bargain well. It is listed at 95k in Olx Chennai.
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