High sensitivity speakers for home theatre

[prateekatasniya]

Dynamics is the difference between the softest and loudest passages of music. High sensitivity does not guarantee dynamics, low distortion does that. Most budget high sensitivity loudspeakers usually have many anomalies that audiophiles aren't aware of. Be cautious and make an educated choice

Yeah.. softest and loudest passages matter. And so the speaker capacity to reach that SPL matters.. speaker's transient response matters.

Maybe you should try comparing speakers in ab testing and then give you opinion.

 

[nosortf]

90db peaks is easily achieved by most loudspeakers at 3 meters listening distance. I am confused by transient response as a reference in this context.
Trying speakers in ab comparison before giving my opinion is a good suggestion. What type of speakers should I compare?

 

[prateekatasniya]

90db peaks is easily achieved by most loudspeakers at 3 meters listening distance. I am confused by transient response as a reference in this context.
Trying speakers in ab comparison before giving my opinion is a good suggestion. What type of speakers should I compare?

90db isnt a peak for movies..
105 db peaks are needed.
Compare QSC sc 1120 with your favorites.

 

[nosortf]

You actually listen to 105db peaks? Man you are courageous. I don't have any particular favorites, but I am currently listening through two way inwall 8" speakers assisted by dual 10" inwall subs inside a gypsum infinite baffle wall. I don't have the courage to play louder than 95db peaks, that too very rarely.
I find the sound quite balanced and having respectable timing.
Comparing to the speakers you have suggested, I have heard several similar designs in many cinemas and I find them quite fatiguing. True, loudness is their forte, however its at the expense of finesse, for me. eg in the movie Dark Knight, when the Joker gets off the bus in the first scene, there is a monorail train in the distance, most people wouldn't pay attention to it, but in a good system you can actually hear that monorail. Such specific detailing is more important to me than pure loudness.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

Man you are courageous.

IME, it is less about courage than it is about using dynamically capable speakers in a reasonably well-treated room.

for me. eg in the movie Dark Knight, when the Joker gets off the bus in the first scene, there is a monorail train in the distance, most people wouldn't pay attention to it, but in a good system you can actually hear that monorail.

Cool, that's interesting that bit of detail. Can't say I've heard the monorail in that scene. Is this when the Joker goes back to the bank manager to stick an explosive in his mouth?

Such specific detailing is more important to me than pure loudness.

As my listening evolves, I find myself in the same boat. HST, one doesn't preclude the existence of the other. It is possible to have both detailing finesse and visceral dynamics.

 

[nosortf]

It is possible to have finesse and visceral dynamics, but only high sensitivity doesn't guarantee that. The combination of high sensitivity and finesse is achieved by very few expensive speakers. Just for sake of clarification, I have a very capable high sensitivity speaker too, Tannoy Monitor Golds 15 inch in a corner horn cabinets design. Good big sound to listen to, but glosses over some finer details.

The scene is when he gets off the bus with a bag over his shoulder, before the bank robbery.

Never said one precludes the other, only said it is expensive to achieve finesse in a high sensitivity speaker. There is this guy on a YouTube channel called Audiophiliac, he loves the high sensitivity Klipsch Cornwalls for their big dynamic sound but also the Harbeths for their finesse, and he knows neither can have both aspects. The speaker he finds combining both aspects, ie dynamics and finesse is the PBN MR777 at 85k USD. I hope this clarifies my comments.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

The scene is when he gets off the bus with a bag over his shoulder, before the bank robbery.

Thanks, will check it out.

Never said one precludes the other,

While not explicitly stated, it came across that way. To me, at any rate.

only said it is expensive to achieve finesse in a high sensitivity speaker.

I must've missed where you said this before. My apologies.

The speaker he finds combining both aspects, ie dynamics and finesse is the PBN MR777 at 85k USD.

85K USD?! Wow. I wonder what he'll make of the far less expensive JBL M2's or even the top of the line JTR's. Haven't read too many complaints about their dynamic capabilities or their ability to resolve detail.

I hope this clarifies my comments.

It does, thanks!

 

[nosortf]

Those very few high sensitivity loudspeakers that actually sound smooth and refined, can cost as much as a car for a pair.

Here is the part where I said it. Usually I am extremely specific about my statements, apologies if it caused any misunderstanding.

 

[nosortf]

Would like to mention that my room is quite well designed, with a 7.2.4 setup. It follows proportion ratios recommended by Dolby for their mix rooms. Appropriate treatment wrt loudspeakers has been used, to get a reasonable FR within a 6db window at 2/3 listening position. The system is -3db at 40hz.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

Would like to mention that my room is quite well designed, with a 7.2.4 setup.

Cool.

Appropriate treatment wrt loudspeakers has been used, to get a reasonable FR within a 6db window at 2/3 listening position.

Fair. Still need sound to decay in a reasonable time frame, and more importantly, uniformly across the non-resonant region. Perhaps you've also measured those. I ask because of the 95 dB "limit" that you'd mentioned. Typically, but not always, that comes down to reaching the limit of one's room if the equipment is dynamically capable enough.

The system is -3db at 40hz.

If that works for you, great. Personally, I'd want more for a HT. A lot more.

 

[prateekatasniya]

You actually listen to 105db peaks? Man you are courageous. I don't have any particular favorites, but I am currently listening through two way inwall 8" speakers assisted by dual 10" inwall subs inside a gypsum infinite baffle wall. I don't have the courage to play louder than 95db peaks, that too very rarely.
I find the sound quite balanced and having respectable timing.
Comparing to the speakers you have suggested, I have heard several similar designs in many cinemas and I find them quite fatiguing. True, loudness is their forte, however its at the expense of finesse, for me. eg in the movie Dark Knight, when the Joker gets off the bus in the first scene, there is a monorail train in the distance, most people wouldn't pay attention to it, but in a good system you can actually hear that monorail. Such specific detailing is more important to me than pure loudness.

Check this out.

 

[nosortf]

Cool.



Fair. Still need sound to decay in a reasonable time frame, and more importantly, uniformly across the non-resonant region. Perhaps you've also measured those. I ask because of the 95 dB "limit" that you'd mentioned. Typically, but not always, that comes down to reaching the limit of one's room if the equipment is dynamically capable enough.



If that works for you, great. Personally, I'd want more for a HT. A lot more.

I don't listen loud at all, hence 95db peaks are rare for me. Certainly the room can take quite a bit more, but I have not the need nor desire to find out. The speakers and subs are all infinite baffled sealed boxes. Decay is quite good, timpani rolls and plucked cellos stop perfectly on Classical music blurays, but it is spoken word which for me is the acid test. My current listening references on bluray are Brahms Piano Concerto No1, Bruckner Symphony No8 and Benjamin Britten's War Requiem. Besides the music on the blurays, its the spoken introduction about the composition and the performance, which is a great test of speech quality.
That is my viewpoint.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

Certainly the room can take quite a bit more, but I have not the need nor desire to find out.

Fair enough. My acoustician remarked to me the last time he was here that my music listening levels had gone down. I told him that might simply be a consequence of me trusting the room a lot more now. I no longer feel like I have to turn things up to hear the subtle details in the recording.

As for HT, different strokes for different folks. Playback at close to reference levels with extension down to 10 Hz or thereabouts is pretty darn nice, IME.

Enjoy your movies and music!

 

[nosortf]

Fair enough. My acoustician remarked to me the last time he was here that my music listening levels had gone down. I told him that might simply be a consequence of me trusting the room a lot more now. I no longer feel like I have to turn things up to hear the subtle details in the recording.

As for HT, different strokes for different folks. Playback at close to reference levels with extension down to 10 Hz or thereabouts is pretty darn nice, IME.

Enjoy your movies and music!

It's actually a paradox, the more dynamic and low distortion your system is, the lower your preferred listening levels seem to go.
10hz ?? What a subwoofer.

 

[Naturelover]

Playback at close to reference levels with extension down to 10 Hz or thereabouts is pretty darn nice, IME.

10 Hz?
What sub and what cost?

 

[liverpool_for_life]

10 Hz?

In-room, yes.

What sub and what cost?

Four subs in total.

Seaton Submersive HP+ and Seaton Submersive HP-Slave subwoofer: https://seatonsound.net/product/submersivehp/

A pair of the Seaton JS-12's: https://seatonsound.net/product/js-12-subwoofer/

As of today, the Submersive HP's are going to cost $4290 for the standard finish ($2895 for the powered unit and $1395 for the passive slave unit). The pair of JS-12's are going to cost $2790, again for the standard finish.

Shipping via FedEx air for the pair of Submersives is going to be $1400, while the shipping for a pair of JS-12's is going to be $700 for a total shipping cost of $2100.

Cost of subs (inclusive of shipping), prior to Customs: $9180

At a Customs rate of ~42%, you're looking at a landed cost of ~$13000.

 

[k-pad]

Kindly look for anechoic sensitivity instead of brands like Klipsch mentioning in room sensitivity.
With anechoic sensitivity of 95db in room sensitivity would be around 98.
Any regular floor Stander would have an in room sensitivity of 93-94 db.

Easy way is to check the drivers used in the speakers.

Some brands.. specially a big USA brand starting with K is fooling around with people and has actually become successful with such misleading claims.

There is something called the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon - you discover something and it keeps popping up everywhere around you in the near future after that.
I have been reading this forum so much, and I logged off last night looking at this post and wondering what anechoic was.
I went to bed, opened my kindle to read an audiophile book before falling asleep, and within a few pages I found this
PFA

PS: The sound of blood running to ones ears must be an out of the world experience!

 

[jenson]

Do talk to Pulz electronics as well. They specialize in sound installations for major theaters in India and perhaps, abroad. Some of the IMAX too have their speakers.

They have created a line for home theater as well.

Indian firm, rock solid make and lifetime service available.

https://www.pulz.co.in/category-homeaudio-speakers.html

IsoWave M2 | Pulz

The IsoWave M2 3-Way Speaker System design emphasizes on consistency and linearity of on and off axis response providing more spatially consistent sound compared to designs utilizing offset drivers. The enhanced sonic accuracy of IsoWave speaker system is primarily possible due to the carefully...

www.pulz.co.in