HT Setup - A bit on the expensive side.

[chander]

Hi here on behalf of a friend. As the title suggests - I couldn't suggest anything as his budget is a bit ridiculous and most of his choices I have no clue about. Hence asking for your suggestions.

His configurations he has kind of shortlisted, but I thought I will check and see what you guys have to say - also with all due respect - he doesn't want IndiQAudio, he heard the Platinum floorstanders and he wants better. His money not mine so I can't convince otherwise.

He already has auditioned most of the equipment here except a few, he already has a 4K JVC projector + 4K 85 (or maybe 75) inch Sony OLED TV. All wiring is already done inside (re-wired recently). I wanted to ask you on his behalf if the following components work well enough?

AVR - Denon X3700 - For the pre-outs. - Budget Upto 2L
Fronts - Revel Performa 3 F206 - Budget upto 4L
Center - Matching to whatever the FS are - budget flexible.
Subwoofer - 2 RELs - not sure which ones but he is set on these very much .
Surrounds Back and sides - 4 DLS flat box slim large - budget upto 1.5L
Atmos Speakers - As he doesn't have provision for the in wall speakers he is planning to get 2 pairs of DLS flatbox Slim Mini and hook them up with the help of his friend - budget upto 1L
Power Amp - Emotiva XPA Gen 3 3 Channel (the 4 atmos and 4 surrounds will use the amplification of the AVR)
Sources - ATV4K + BR player.

The dedicated room is a largish rectangle with screen on the long side - has also been dampened when it was purpose built. The dimensions are LXW - 7 Mt X 5Mt (I am not entirely sure but I believe the height is around 5MT too), he was already using a pair of ELAC debut reference something in the room for stereo and Bose something for Surround (the small ones), he has sold them all and is now desperate to pull the plug. Also he has a dear friend who can help him calibrate, so all those things he isn't worried about, just wanted to know - given the price are his choices good or should he line up others for audition.

***I have to take ownership of convincing him towards the DLS flatbox, I use these and I am in love with them

 

[fLUX]

Hi here on behalf of a friend. As the title suggests - I couldn't suggest anything as his budget is a bit ridiculous and most of his choices I have no clue about. Hence asking for your suggestions.

His configurations he has kind of shortlisted, but I thought I will check and see what you guys have to say - also with all due respect - he doesn't want IndiQAudio, he heard the Platinum floorstanders and he wants better. His money not mine so I can't convince otherwise.

He already has auditioned most of the equipment here except a few, he already has a 4K JVC projector + 4K 85 (or maybe 75) inch Sony OLED TV. All wiring is already done inside (re-wired recently). I wanted to ask you on his behalf if the following components work well enough?

AVR - Denon X3700 - For the pre-outs. - Budget Upto 2L
Fronts - Revel Performa 3 F206 - Budget upto 4L
Center - Matching to whatever the FS are - budget flexible.
Subwoofer - 2 RELs - not sure which ones but he is set on these very much .
Surrounds Back and sides - 4 DLS flat box slim large - budget upto 1.5L
Atmos Speakers - As he doesn't have provision for the in wall speakers he is planning to get 2 pairs of DLS flatbox Slim Mini and hook them up with the help of his friend - budget upto 1L
Power Amp - Emotiva XPA Gen 3 3 Channel (the 4 atmos and 4 surrounds will use the amplification of the AVR)
Sources - ATV4K + BR player.

The dedicated room is a largish rectangle with screen on the long side - has also been dampened when it was purpose built. The dimensions are LXW - 7 Mt X 5Mt (I am not entirely sure but I believe the height is around 5MT too), he was already using a pair of ELAC debut reference something in the room for stereo and Bose something for Surround (the small ones), he has sold them all and is now desperate to pull the plug. Also he has a dear friend who can help him calibrate, so all those things he isn't worried about, just wanted to know - given the price are his choices good or should he line up others for audition.

***I have to take ownership of convincing him towards the DLS flatbox, I use these and I am in love with them

That's some budget to play with While I have not auditioned many options at that kinda budget I would suggest the below as options

AVR - I think he could look at the Anthem/Arcam receiver lineup or at 2L the Denon X4700h can be had at that budget else if he wants to save some cash to be used the X3700H also looks perfectly good. I had done an extensive read of X4500H vs X3600H and did not find much of a difference with some debatable differences (apart from the video side) but since the price difference was 19k I went for the X4500H.

Fronts - I would suggest to include the following Focal Aria 946 , KEF R7 , Tannoy XT8F , Monitor Audio Silver FS, Concept 500 in addition to the Revel Performa 3 F206. Center as mentioned can be picked up as per match. Focal Aria sound wonderful for HT too, can assure

Subwoofer - 12 inch dual ported subs would be good here, 15 inch would be even better I believe with more headroom for a room that big. Rhytmik is the brand I would personally go to based on online reviews if I want a balance leaning little towards movies.

Surround Back & Sides - Not sure what DLS is , can you point me out to these please. For surround backs a Bipole/Dipole works really well. I tried Polk FXI A5 and they do really well as surround backs. But I have no idea what DLS is.

Atmos - You can make enclosure wooden units on top and house the in-ceiling speakers inside this. I see this being done across many places these days, this would be best I believe.

Power Amp - I tried Emotiva XPA 2 Gen 3 , did not like it much. My dealer suggested one more brand called as AudioControl Pentages G4 but ended up going for IndiQ PA here. Another FM @rajivaryan1984 here got the AudioControl so maybe he can update us on how he liked the same.

Also if he is an audiophile or would like a dedicated stereo line too, a good streamer cum DAC and a preamp would be a very good addition to this chain and will help the speakers he goes for to perform at a very different level vs the AVR chain for music.

Tagging @liverpool_for_life , he has a kickass HT system and should be able to help you further for such a wholesome budget.

 

[chander]

Thanks @fLUX - thank you so much for taking out the time. DLS are these little beauties I discovered - as I had strict restrictions to work with for the surrounds. https://dls.se/home-audio/
It doesn't look like much and obviously there are better options - albeit a lot more expensive, but it works fantastic for me and in the price range and kind of disappear in the background. It is one of my most prized possession - and everyone is happy -

You can make enclosure wooden units on top and house the in-ceiling speakers inside this. I see this being done across many places these days, this would be best I believe.

Yup that is the plan - some aluminum brackets - cut and fit to shape and size - similar to mac-mini mounts VESA mounts, apparently it is pretty simple, can't say for myself.

Power Amp - I tried Emotiva XPA 2 Gen 3 , did not like it much. My dealer suggested one more brand called as AudioControl Pentages G4 but ended up going for IndiQ PA here. Another FM @rajivaryan1984 here got the AudioControl so maybe he can update us on how he liked the same.

Any dealer for the audio controls? I believe Anthem also makes 3 channel power amps. I will ask him to check on something else.

Also if he is an audiophile or would like a dedicated stereo line too, a good streamer cum DAC and a preamp would be a very good addition to this chain and will help the speakers he goes for to perform at a very different level vs the AVR chain for music.

I understand - I asked him too, but his priority is movies only - very much a 99% movies setup, as in that particular room he realised he never uses unless it is for movies.

 

[fLUX]

Thanks @fLUX - thank you so much for taking out the time. DLS are these little beauties I discovered - as I had strict restrictions to work with for the surrounds. https://dls.se/home-audio/
It doesn't look like much and obviously there are better options - albeit a lot more expensive, but it works fantastic for me and in the price range and kind of disappear in the background. It is one of my most prized possession - and everyone is happy -


Yup that is the plan - some aluminum brackets - cut and fit to shape and size - similar to mac-mini mounts VESA mounts, apparently it is pretty simple, can't say for myself.

Any dealer for the audio controls? I believe Anthem also makes 3 channel power amps. I will ask him to check on something else.


I understand - I asked him too, but his priority is movies only - very much a 99% movies setup, as in that particular room he realised he never uses unless it is for movies.

The Home Cinema from Bangalore deal with AudioControl, if Anthem PA is available then no doubt go for it. I missed suggesting one thing is to go for a pre/power based AVR setup (pre-processor with all neccesary tech) and power amp for the amplifier section, apparently they are supposed to be way better than AVRs but never got the chance to explore to enhance my understanding on that side.

The DLS do look beautiful , anything which disappears on the surround side is a pure delight. Personally I like the way bipole/dipole sound as surround backs , but looks wise a big no!!

 

[chander]

The DLS do look beautiful , anything which disappears on the surround side is a pure delight. Personally I like the way bipole/dipole sound as surround backs , but looks wise a big no!!

I understand what you mean - I did have the bipoles from Wharfedale before I moved to these and before that I was using a pair of 9.1 diamonds for rear duties and before that I was using FS. But I have to say - I do think these do better than both it's predecessors, provided my earlier choices were not top of the line either.

**Another very cool thing - they come with both white and black grills in the box!

 

[liverpool_for_life]

Tagging @liverpool_for_life , [...]and should be able to help you further for such a wholesome budget.

OP,

Does your friend wish to listen to movies at reference levels? If not, how many dB down from reference?

 

[chander]

OP,

Does your friend wish to listen to movies at reference levels? If not, how many dB down from reference?

I am absolutely ashamed right now as I know very little on this topic and I checked with my friend - he has no clue.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

OP,

Does your friend wish to listen to movies at reference levels? If not, how many dB down from reference?

You've been on AVS too much

He means to ask your friend does he listen at loud "wall shaking" volumes or less than that.

 

[chander]

Well I just googled it up and I got this -
"A 'reference' level is simply a commonly agreed upon setup so that playing a source on multiple setups produces the same volumes, peaks and quiets. The most common one used for home cinema is based upon a 'peak' of 105db."
***I did read up a little more.

Again, I doubt he even knows something like this exists. I understand the reason why you would do this, but this was never even a "thought" - so I do not know if we can answer this at all.

You've been on AVS too much

He means to ask your friend does he listen at loud "wall shaking" volumes or less than that.

Not prolonged exposure to deafness level loud, but loud enough as movies are generally watched.

@liverpool_for_life - just BTW I recently discovered your thread on your journey from Soundbar to an Atmos setup. Just wanted to congratulate you on that.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

You've been on AVS too much

Guilty as charged

He means to ask your friend does he listen at loud "wall shaking" volumes or less than that.

Heh. With dynamically capable equipment and a well treated room, it can be effortless and wall-shaking. But you knew that already...

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

My post was jest! Also I mean that many people here are not so familiar with technical terms. On AVS this is might be "beginners" level but most people here don't really get into that. It might be more prudent to ask simpler questions. From his posts it sounds like his friend is not technically inclined.

Effortless,wall shaking is all good but my poor ears are sensitive to HF. HF at "reference" equals an ear ache for me. Now mid bass is where you have my attention, 80-300Hz please, none of that 50-150Hz stuff

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Well I just googled it up and I got this -
"A 'reference' level is simply a commonly agreed upon setup so that playing a source on multiple setups produces the same volumes, peaks and quiets. The most common one used for home cinema is based upon a 'peak' of 105db."
***I did read up a little more.

Again, I doubt he even knows something like this exists. I understand the reason why you would do this, but this was never even a "thought" - so I do not know if we can answer this at all.


Not prolonged exposure to deafness level loud, but loud enough as movies are generally watched.

@liverpool_for_life - just BTW I recently discovered your thread on your journey from Soundbar to an Atmos setup. Just wanted to congratulate you on that.

I think if your friend could answer a simple question it would give liverpool (I hope that's ok) a guideline.

Does he want his home theater to be less loud,as loud,or louder than his local movie theater?

 

[liverpool_for_life]

I am absolutely ashamed right now as I know very little on this topic and I checked with my friend - he has no clue.

Nowt to be ashamed about. All of us start from scratch.

Again, I doubt he even knows something like this exists. I understand the reason why you would do this, but this was never even a "thought" - so I do not know if we can answer this at all.

I do think this is important to know so that you can pick appropriately capable speakers and amplification, TBH. Perhaps worth discussing with his friend who is offering to do the calibration?

As for the equipment itself, Revels are fantastically engineered speakers. I believe Dr. Floyd Toole has one of the Revels in his personal HT (not sure if its the same as the one your friend's considering), so that's significant endorsement, if needed. Given your friend's room size, I wonder whether they're going to be loud enough for HT usage.

I would consider the Anthem AVM 60 for the processor, if your friend can spring for it. It won't be too far from his stated budget and it does come with pre-outs. I have had one for the past 3 years and have no real complaints for movies. I restrict the built-in room correction to 200 Hz and below, though.

As for the subs, IMO, there are other possibilities for HT. I'm going to leave it at that if his heart is set on the RELs and he will not consider anything else. Otherwise, please post budget for the subs.

You seem to have the surrounds and overheads covered. Please ask your friend to budget for room treatment.

Not prolonged exposure to deafness level loud, but loud enough as movies are generally watched.

Just to be clear, reference levels aren't deafness level loud. Otherwise, you wouldn't have a standard that defines it for movie audio playback. Movies are generally watched at levels that the speakers and room allow, for the most part. If you don't want the room to set the limit for your playback, you've got to treat it. No way around that, especially in our concrete filled homes.

@liverpool_for_life - just BTW I recently discovered your thread on your journey from Soundbar to an Atmos setup. Just wanted to congratulate you on that.

Thank you. It's been a bit of a journey...

 

[chander]

I think if your friend could answer a simple question it would give liverpool (I hope that's ok) a guideline.

Does he want his home theater to be less loud,as loud,or louder than his local movie theater?

I discussed with him - and loudness is not his priority, so less louder than the local movie theater, but clarity in dialogues and effects is what he wants. According to him the theaters "are too loud" and do not have "clean sound" - if that helps.

Let me quote an example he just gave me - "in Kill Bill, (the crazy 88 scene) if you can hear every slash of the sword and squirting of blood clearly and it sounds realistic, that is his perfect system, also when it goes back to a quiet scene with dialogue the next scene - it should be quiet with a clear dialogue". I am quoting him as best as I can!

 

[chander]

Nowt to be ashamed about. All of us start from scratch.



I do think this is important to know so that you can pick appropriately capable speakers and amplification, TBH. Perhaps worth discussing with his friend who is offering to do the calibration?

As for the equipment itself, Revels are fantastically engineered speakers. I believe Dr. Floyd Toole has one of the Revels in his personal HT (not sure if its the same as the one your friend's considering), so that's significant endorsement, if needed. Given your friend's room size, I wonder whether they're going to be loud enough for HT usage.

I would consider the Anthem AVM 60 for the processor, if your friend can spring for it. It won't be too far from his stated budget and it does come with pre-outs. I have had one for the past 3 years and have no real complaints for movies. I restrict the built-in room correction to 200 Hz and below, though.

As for the subs, IMO, there are other possibilities for HT. I'm going to leave it at that if his heart is set on the RELs and he will not consider anything else. Otherwise, please post budget for the subs.

You seem to have the surrounds and overheads covered. Please ask your friend to budget for room treatment.



Just to be clear, reference levels aren't deafness level loud. Otherwise, you wouldn't have a standard that defines it for movie audio playback. Movies are generally watched at levels that the speakers and room allow, for the most part. If you don't want the room to set the limit for your playback, you've got to treat it. No way around that, especially in our concrete filled homes.



Thank you. It's been a bit of a journey...

Thank you so much I am sending this to him as is Thanks again for the time you have taken to write this.

As for the subs, IMO, there are other possibilities for HT. I'm going to leave it at that if his heart is set on the RELs and he will not consider anything else. Otherwise, please post budget for the subs.

I believe he is looking at around 2L per sub - I tried to convince him to buy two QA QB12s he won't agree

 

[liverpool_for_life]

Thank you so much I am sending this to him as is Thanks again for the time you have taken to write this.

No worries. Happy to be of any assistance.

I believe he is looking at around 2L per sub

If he's willing to consider other possibilities, let me know.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

My post was jest!

No, I got that.

From his posts it sounds like his friend is not technically inclined.

Right. I saw the budget and then Revels in the list and made some unwarranted assumptions. It's all good now.

Effortless,wall shaking is all good but my poor ears are sensitive to HF. HF at "reference" equals an ear ache for me.

Only if technically flat. Perceptually flat, ala the Harman curve, has been shown to be quite pleasing subjectively.

Now mid bass is where you have my attention, 80-300Hz please, none of that 50-150Hz stuff

We all have our own preferences. Enjoy your music!

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

No, I got that.



Right. I saw the budget and then Revels in the list and made some unwarranted assumptions. It's all good now.



Only if technically flat. Perceptually flat, ala the Harman curve, has been shown to be quite pleasing subjectively.



We all have our own preferences. Enjoy your music!

Harman,JBL,Toole and the lot are pushing their propaganda/advertisement. Personally I think Harman is rubbish so is their so called "research". It's all about money, establish a standard, make people believe it and then juice them for products based on that standard.

Yes indeed, you have fun too!

 

[edjamesx]

Since you have good budget Sonus faber speakers also worth considered .. sweetest sound.

 

[chander]

I have a question here - on a slightly different note - If you get a 5 Channel PA to power the front 3 channels - can you biamp the L/R? If so - how? Considering there is only 1 pre-out from the AVR?