Is AV Receiver good for Music ?

Hehe, I just got back from the said folk's home who supposedly has never experienced a true stereo setup. While I am a guy who basically listens to music on my AVR, who most times is happy listening to music without trying to find fault with its presentation, which I think, defeats the purpose of listening to music, said folk is a hard core stereo folk who goes the distance. The experience was, to use teen parlance, awesome.

Said folk however has a tendency to not engage in arguments that don't matter one way or the other.
 
Stereo vs Avr performance or Objective measurements vs Subjective listening threads win on max pages in this forum. Let's see...... :)
 
On a personal note, my music listening experiences with AVRs have all been rather poor in comparison to 2-channel stereo on a decent rig. On the contrary, whenever I have attempted to use 2-channel equipment for movie watching, the experience was not great either.
I have almost the same experience. Though listening to 2-channel on AVR has been marginally worse as compared to my tube amp, but using 2-channel equipment for movies has been absolutely pathetic. This I discovered when my Yamaha AVR standby power supply that is a SMPS and powers the HDMI board went kaput. It took me a month to troubleshoot and repair the SMPS board by myself. During this time, i connected the tv output to the tube amp. Even the sound of netflix startup was no match for what comes out of the 7.1 setup in the AVR. My wife and son also commented that they don't get the punch that the netflix startup had when using the AVR.

I think sound encoded in Dolby/DTS sounds pathetic when downmixed to stereo.
 
I have almost the same experience. Though listening to 2-channel on AVR has been marginally worse as compared to my tube amp, but using 2-channel equipment for movies has been absolutely pathetic. This I discovered when my Yamaha AVR standby power supply that is a SMPS and powers the HDMI board went kaput. It took me a month to troubleshoot and repair the SMPS board by myself. During this time, i connected the tv output to the tube amp. Even the sound of netflix startup was no match for what comes out of the 7.1 setup in the AVR. My wife and son also commented that they don't get the punch that the netflix startup had when using the AVR.

I think sound encoded in Dolby/DTS sounds pathetic when downmixed to stereo.
Unless the downmixing is done by the AVR in which case, it still sounds fantastic in stereo!
 
Unless the downmixing is done by the AVR in which case, it still sounds fantastic in stereo!
Important point and yes, it does sound fantastic in stereo too as long as the downmixing is done by the AVR. So the tv's must not be doing something right. Also my tv doesn't have Dolby written/mentioned anywhere. This must be some proprietary algorithm from Dolby that the avr must be using when downmixing to stereo?
 
Important point and yes, it does sound fantastic in stereo too as long as the downmixing is done by the AVR. So the tv's must not be doing something right. Also my tv doesn't have Dolby written/mentioned anywhere. This must be some proprietary algorithm from Dolby that the avr must be using when downmixing to stereo?
Your guess is as good as mine.

I haven't tried two channel from my TV to a DAC or IA yet on my primary setup but while playing on a browser or netflix app on my computer, it doesnt sound too bad but the dynamic range does suffer. In the scenes that manage to get the bass downmixed right, it does sound better than my AVR courtesy the DAC being fed directly into the IA. The flutter and micro details in the bass are tracked with great precision, something that my humble Marantz SR6013 can't quite nail to the last detail. A more accomplished processor would be necessary i suppose.
 
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amrutmhatre90

With a pair of jeans, one has to cut through holes to show some fashion. I am beginning to think you have done those mavericks act with your audio gear :D am i right or am i right or am i right??!! ;)
 
amrutmhatre90

With a pair of jeans, one has to cut through holes to show some fashion. I am beginning to think you have done those mavericks act with your audio gear :D am i right or am i right or am i right??!! ;)
In my experience, firstly, not all ears are created equal.

To elucidate, I remember this one time when I was playing tracks on iTunes while chilling with a friend, initially through Airplay and then from a hardwired connection (read PC directly fed through HDMI on my computer). My friend immediately exclaimed that the music sounded much better and was inquisitive about what I'd changed. Now despite the fact that i was the one switching connections, these aural improvements were not immediately obvious to me. And this was not a solitary instance, this particular friend of mine has had quite a few listening sessions with me where I've noticed that he's much more adept at identifying aural cues than me.

I juxtapose this with the time when i took a visual pattern recognition test (it was a serious exercise for an assignment that we had) where I'd scored some 95% while a friend who took it along with me scored 5%. And while this person is neither deaf nor retarded (to clarify, he had perfect vision whereas I was the one with glasses and blind as a bat without them), his brain simply could not decipher the patterns that were obvious to me.

Now, it was not that his brain could not decipher these differences at all, once i pointed them out, it became immediately obvious. Therefore, it is something that can be learnt.

Therefore, besides the ability to hear frequencies and it's erosion over time simpliciter, perhaps there's something to do with the ability to identify aural and visual cues as well?

Having said that, and even though a proper post has been a long time in the coming and still overdue on the proper thread, i recall when i was graced with a visit from @aeroash a month back and he'd checked out my system. I was immediately struck by his ability to identify the sonic qualities of my system accurately. After a couple of tracks, he could clearly tell inter alia that there was some hardness in the bass around the 80-120hz region whereas the lower mids were coming across as a bit thin - both observations substantiated by REW measurements which show a spike in the 80hz-120hz region and a massive dip of around 5-10db from about 250hz to 500hz due to a room node (i hope 😬). However, i was quite surprised by his preference in amplifiers, attributes that he spoke of which make perfect sense in hindsight but something which never struck me in my experience with such gear until he spelt it out.

Therefore, it's not simply our imperfect hearing, inability to identify/distinguish sonic attributes etc but very much the factor of taste, especially when you know exactly what it is that one likes, that dictates how we prefer our music and as a necessary precursor, the gear for playing it.

Then, there was this video about food dyes explaining how tests revealed that attractive looking food tastes better than the identical item when presented in a much more plain Jane form.

Simply put, there are too many variables to account for in what one person hears.
 
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amrutmhatre90

With a pair of jeans, one has to cut through holes to show some fashion. I am beginning to think you have done those mavericks act with your audio gear :D am i right or am i right or am i right??!! ;)

Sorry but I never wore ripped jeans or with holes for fashion, so not don't know.

I haven't done any tricks or magic on my audio gear. Just got the basics right and its rewarding me.

I won't be further contributing to this thread as it is going nowhere.

"Coin will always have two sides, pick heads or tails."
 
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Unfortunately, that's something not all of us are aware of. Could you explain these factors which have helped you nail the system?

- Using the system in rectangular placement, giving speakers space on sides. Avoiding very close wall side reflections which make bass uncontrollable or muddy.
- Left and Right side is almost identical from MLP, right side has a French window. Placement of speakers and distance also is identical and perfect from MLP. First reflection points have absorption panels placed using mirror trick.
- The Triangle between speakers and MLP is almost symmetrical.
- Some absorption behind the speakers and front of speakers. Avoid cancelling out bass or getting it boomy.
- Rug covering most of the ground to avoid reflections off the ground.
- I had some diffusion look a like board which came with QA packing, placed next to the front panels. But was toying with the Idea of getting diffusion panels made, but scrapped it as this whole setup (except stereo) will be going to a dedicated space in few months.

I wouldn't call it nailing the system, there are things which can further enhance the listening experience.

Adobe_20220420_140506_copy_2859x1630.jpg

This was the latest photo I clicked few days back when even the small QA3010i blew me away when I paried it with NAD 165bee pre amp + O&B power amp, source was Tidal from Rpi to SMSL SU9.
Why blew me away? I use these speakers for surrounds. And yet it had superb bass and mids with elegant highs which was coming out if this small speaker. Imaging and depth was beautiful, though if placed slightly higher it would be perfect. All this was achieved with the way I have placed in above picture.

I may have done few things wrong or have room for improvement, but learning small things everyday from this forum or the Internet. Reading and learning shouldn't stop. :)
 
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- Using the system in rectangular placement, giving speakers space on sides. Avoiding very close wall side reflections which make bass uncontrollable or muddy.
- Left and Right side is almost identical from MLP, right side has a French window. Placement of speakers and distance also is identical and perfect from MLP. First reflection points have absorption panels placed using mirror trick.
- The Triangle between speakers and MLP is almost symmetrical.
- Some absorption behind the speakers and front of speakers. Avoid cancelling out bass or getting it boomy.
- Rug covering most of the ground to avoid reflections off the ground.
- I had some diffusion look a like board which came with QA packing, placed next to the front panels. But was toying with the Idea of getting diffusion panels made, but scrapped it as this whole setup (except stereo) will be going to a dedicated space in few months.

I wouldn't call it nailing the system, there are things which can further enhance the listening experience.

View attachment 68964

This was the latest photo I clicked few days back when even the small QA3010i blew me away when I paried it with NAD 165bee pre amp + O&B power amp, source was Tidal from Rpi to SMSL SU9.
Why blew me away? I use these speakers for surrounds. And yet it had superb bass and mids with elegant highs which was coming out if this small speaker. Imaging and depth was beautiful, though if placed slightly higher it would be perfect. All this was achieved with the way I have placed in above picture.

I may have done few things wrong or have room for improvement, but learning small things everyday from this forum or the Internet. Reading and learning shouldn't stop. :)
Almost the same principles are followed in my room. The triangle with MLP and my speakers is almost equilateral. My left and right sides of MLP are near symmetrical , with heavy curtains on both sides. Speakers are placed at the exact distance from rear wall , and at exact height as specified by designer Andrew Jones.
I use blue tacks to isolate the speakers from the stands (desi jugaar ).
Also the stands are placed on custom cut rugs.

I was playing Steven Wilson remixed LP of Jethro Tull’s TAAB in complete darkness.
The wall-to-wall soundstage was a shock even to me, far wider than the intra-speaker distance which is 6 feet , with both height and depth illusion.
Not to mention the speakers completely disappeared.
 
I was playing Steven Wilson remixed LP of Jethro Tull’s TAAB in complete darkness.
The wall-to-wall soundstage was a shock even to me...
This reminds me of the best investment I have made in my audio journey. This single piece of equipment gives me a good sound stage, depth and what not. I have the audiophile one which makes the background totall black.

1650727650599.png
 
This reminds me of the best investment I have made in my audio journey. This single piece of equipment gives me a good sound stage, depth and what not. I have the audiophile one which makes the background totall black.

View attachment 68965

Happy for you. Trust the audiophile one also suggests playlists based on taste ;)

Btw, last I remember your room was so messed up you had to turn your stereo speakers 180 degrees and also move your chair opposite side of the room to get some semblance of soundstage. Trust those are sorted out? :)
 
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My 2 cents.

Getting best 2 channel sound depends on optimising everything on the signal chain. Right from the source audio file to source to dac to amplifier to speakers, cables, on how you setup the speakers, distance from wall, room treatments and the list goes on.


The argument then becomes not one of comparing IA vs AVR but on what else you are compromising when using an AVR.

Using AVR for music is for convenience to start with. Can it sound as good as an IA? Maybe, if you know what you are doing.

A person starting with an AVR setup iam sure will not spend the time and effort needed on the other areas of optimizations mentioned earlier.


A system built around an AVR with speakers constrained to the position where they look good or perform the best for HT application and with stock cable thrown in will not compete with a dedicated stereo setup.


With a HT setup, your journey ends with buying the components and setting them up. With a stereo setup, your journey only begins when you listen to the system and bring it home. Normally people spend tons of time and money and effort to bring out the best from the setup. Putting together high end components never sounds good, it is all in the details of optimization to the music you listen to and the room the setup is deployed, cables being used, effort put into collecting hi-res or flac source files etc.


If you want to build an optimised stereo setup with an AVR in a dedicated room with treatments, proper speaker placements, connecting cables etc, you can very well do it and even beat IAs in the same position. But who goes to such extend with an AVR? The moment you bring in AVR, one can imagine an HT optimised setup also doing stereo duty with compromised material (AAC over airplay, YouTube music etc). Such systems can only dream of competing with entry level stereo systems setup with basics right, playing flac.


Stereo chain is very fragile though. It is very easy to spoil any mid to high end system to sound like shit by just replacing 2-3 cables in my opinion.
 
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