LCD vs Plasma - Fact vs Myth

[psychotropic]

full on full off contrast is a bit of a dodgy number for real world use, and is the kind of test that intrinsically favours LCDs because there is a backlight/ are backlights which can be turned on and off. That said LCDs with local dimming LED backlights have achieved superb real world contrast ratios (albeit at the cost of viewing angle).

 

[adder]

full on full off contrast is a bit of a dodgy number for real world use, and is the kind of test that intrinsically favours LCDs because there is a backlight/ are backlights which can be turned on and off. That said LCDs with local dimming LED backlights have achieved superb real world contrast ratios (albeit at the cost of viewing angle).

But even hdtvtest.co.uk are now having measurements done in Full on/off .This test doesn't favour the plasmas.the same site is also now mentioning about the effect of ambient light.

In their latest lcd test the samsung lcd scores quite well in black levels,the person who review mentions that the black levels measured was without any kind of dimming by the ccfl backlight,surpasses majority of the plasmas.

 

[anuragn]

But do not forget the viewing angle limitation in LCDs. This is one dept where there is simply no comparison and Plasma wins hands down like a Merc would win vs. an Autorickshaw in terms of luxury (and this is not an exageration).
Solely due to this reason, I sold off my LCD after using it for 6 months and bought a Pana PV8 and have been enjoying it since then. Because viewing at home happens at all angles, not just straight-on always.

Quoted below, from the comparison test at diplaymate.com:

All of the LCD units have a noticeable color shift at less than 15 degrees, while the Panasonic Plasma is visually indistinguishable from face on viewing well beyond 45 degrees. This is true for both the measurements and the viewing tests. The significance of this is enormous, because it means that the sweet spot for seeing an accurate picture on an LCD HDTV is only one person wide, even for these top-of-the-line models, so essentially everyone looking at an LCD HDTV will see a picture with noticeably different coloration.

 

[adder]

But do not forget the viewing angle limitation in LCDs. This is one dept where there is simply no comparison and Plasma wins hands down like a Merc would win vs. an Autorickshaw in terms of luxury (and this is not an exageration).
Solely due to this reason, I sold off my LCD after using it for 6 months and bought a Pana PV8 and have been enjoying it since then. Because viewing at home happens at all angles, not just straight-on always.

Quoted below, from the comparison test at diplaymate.com:

Well lcd have also improved significantly in viewing angle from the 07 lcd which have been tested in those reviews,still it won't match the plasmas.But is more then acceptable for the majority of the people,since if it was that much of a concern it would hit their sales,which hasn't happened.

 

[sam9s]

But do not forget the viewing angle limitation in LCDs. This is one dept where there is simply no comparison and Plasma wins hands down like a Merc would win vs. an Autorickshaw in terms of luxury (and this is not an exageration).
Solely due to this reason, I sold off my LCD after using it for 6 months and bought a Pana PV8 and have been enjoying it since then. Because viewing at home happens at all angles, not just straight-on always.

Quoted below, from the comparison test at diplaymate.com:

Which LCD were you using and how old was it......AFA I have read (and experienced as well for that matter), viewing angle have drastically been improved in todays LCDs........check this statement...

One of the biggest problems facing consumers shopping for either an LCD or Plasma television is old information. Because these technologies change so often and get better with each new model released by a manufacturer, some issues concerning LCD televisions from even a year ago aren't much of an issue today and the same holds true for Plasma displays. For example, a year ago you could expect to see a full 15 degree difference in the viewing angles between LCD and Plasma displays. Today, Samsung offers a 178 degree viewing angle on many of its Plasma displays, and up to 175 degrees on its LCDs of similar sizes.

 

[anuragn]

Well lcd have also improved significantly in viewing angle from the 07 lcd which have been tested in those reviews,still it won't match the plasmas.But is more then acceptable for the majority of the people,since if it was that much of a concern it would hit their sales,which hasn't happened.

Yeah, it was a 2007 model LG, bought in March 2008.
And I do completely agree that viewing angle has improved quite a lot in LCDs.
But top-of-the-line LCDs that compare with Plasmas in black levels and viewing angles cost more than twice as much, with backlit LEDs costing even more. People are still buying them in hoardes is because firstly, salesmen push LCDs than Plasmas (simple logic that higher the price, higher is the profit) and secondly, buying a much more expensive product gives the customers a sense of confidence that it is "the" best.
Reminds me of a case study during MBA where Onida's TV sales were down. They simply increased their prices, along with the Devil campaign, and the sales increased.

 

[psychotropic]

Yup viewing angles are much better these days on LCDs. But the fact remains that LCD as a technology is still playing catch up. There's not been an instance where it can be said, ah LCDs are finally as good as plasmas, or that LCDs have inched ahead. Yes Plasmas have image retention and higher power consumption, but purely in terms of the quality of the image put out plasma has the edge. It's slight, but it's there. And since plasma technology is also improving, albeit at a slower pace, it may be that OLED will hit the commercial space before LCD ever truly slays plasma in the image quality battle.

But ya, these days, LCD and plasma are so close that you can definitely take a call purely based on whether or not you can control ambient lighting, and whether image retention will be a concern. But even with regard to image retention. Panasonic plasmas are now being used both in Chennai Central station and Chennai airport as display screens for departures/arrivals, and they've been around for a few months now, and nary a trace of image retention.

 

[BLASTO]

Some observations from ezone today. All LCDs on display and no Plasmas.
Did not enquire any price info as I was not interested (went there to book my A/C)

1) Sony NX500 is a STUNNER. Never seen this much black on an LCD (I suppose it is a Non LED panel?). The black levels are as much as the entry level plasmas or even more. Did not (I mean can not) compare with plasmas as there weren't any. A HUGE step up from what I have seen so far. I wonder what the price is.

2) Saw a Sony V500 close to it and it did not impress (at all). Did not fiddle with settings but the blacks were poor. Could well be a gimmic to sell the NX500s.

3) Samsung 5 series (B530) showed the most detail amoung the lot for the same signal. I am not sure whether Sony or Samsung showed the 'exact colours' butboth impressed in the colour front.

4) Samsung 6 series was better than the 5 series by a margin and showed more details but fell short (by a margin) when compared to NX500. Iam not sure if these can be compared or even if they are in the same league, but NX500 is the definite pick of the two considering the displyed images are true their capacity.

5) LG did not impress. No, I did not go there with this in mind. From a distance, I could make out which one of the display is LG. while Samsung and Sony systems were shinning close by, LG stood there wanting more. The contrast was low, Black level considerably lesser and it cannot produce reds and yellow. Not to offend the owners but it failed.

When I came out NX500 was the one which stood in my mind followed by B650 followed by B530 without considering the price.

Bajaj had a 50" B450 (Some people might want to rush to book this) and 42" PJ series LG plasma.

The PJ series seems like a considerable improvement over the PQ series. But it fell shorter when compared to the B450. Here too i did not fiddle with any settings (just a casual observation). B450 won by a margin.

 

[gadgetcrazy]

42900 for 32'

 

[sanjay0864]

The "aim" or purpose of the post, is clearly spelled out in the 'Title' of the thread. More specifically, the purpose is to 'try' to dispel some of the myths that are so commonly spread by tv salesman and by some over zealous, yet misinformed, members of this forum.

And that "Misinformed" member is me BTW .......for sake of information......

That was the entire crux of the debate for which OP started this thread ............ PEACE

Actually, the thread was never started with any 'one' person in mind, including yourself and I am dissapointed that you have made this personal, by linking this thread with another unrelated, atleast in my mind, thread.

........actually OP is so pissed off by a simple fact I brought that though Plasma had a clear advantage over LCD, ....

There you go again making it as directly personal as it gets. Just for the record, I am not pissed at you, or anyone else, for that matter. Not even now, after you have made this so personal.

current gen LCDs have come a long way and have drastically bridged the gap. Though technically on paper reviewes still put plasma over LCD with X,Y,Z advantage, (as stated here) the fact I think people would agree is LCDs have come a long way since Plasma ruled...... and now practically the differecne is not as much as..... that we can claim plasma way too ahead or a clear winner over LCD, viewing angle, contrast ratio...blah blah ....every things has been improved so much in LCDs that we cannot now say Plasma is the obvious choise

That LCDs have come a long ways, there is no two thoughts. But dollar for dollar, rupee to rupee, a Plasma still outshines a LCD under most conditions and for most uses. By the way, "less of a difference", means there is, "still a difference".

.......and yes there was one more thing I emphasized .......much like audio, video is also to an extent subjective

Actually, that is not entirely true. The human ability to hear, not in terms of volume, but rather the sound spectrum, varies a lot from person to person. It is also, almost impossible to scientifically measure, the exact ability of human hearing. This is not the case with viewing and there are scientific standards and various means to measure 'Visual Acuity'. "Visual acuity (VA) is defined as the acuteness or clearness of vision, especially form vision, which is dependent on the sharpness of the retinal focus within the eye and the sensitivity of the interpretative faculty of the brain". Thus the subjectiveness of 'video' parameters is far less than that of 'audio'.

and so even though technically on paper Plasma has an edge, people should still go and do an extensive auditioning for both the displayes specially with a HD source like a BR keeping all the setting neutral and judge side by side......only then make a decission........simple...

I am glad that you atleast admit, that on paper, 'Plasma' does have a clear edge. Suggesting that someone personaly audition both displays, is never bad advice. The only problem being, that it is almost impossible to get normal home viewing conditions in any showroom. The fact that sales people, are generally prejudiced by their desire to push LCDs, does not help matters either. Specially, when the person trying to make the decision/purchase does not have too much technical knowledge of how to set and calibrate the displays. I am sure you will agree, or atleast I hope, that a showroom is not an ideal place for comparing or auditioning TVs. Also, that the factory default settings of most televisions are very rarely even close to being ideal for displaying a good picture. Unfortunately, both these factors go in favor of LCDs, ie. unless someone with knowledge is allowed by the showroom to neutralize these factors.

 

[sanjay0864]

The "aim" or purpose of the post, is clearly spelled out in the 'Title' of the thread.

The title is too generic since you should have considered all issues that fall into fact/myth criteria. There is nothing wrong with what you posted - just that it is inadequate esp. when you try to address such a generic issue.

Upon giving it more thought, I agree with you that the title could have more appropriately 'clarified' that only the major and not all parameters of the fact/myth criteria, are covered by the post. Maybe something like, 'LCD vs Plasma - Fact vs Common Myths'.

More specifically, the purpose is to 'try' to dispel some of the myths that are so commonly spread by tv salesman and by some over zealous, yet misinformed, members of this forum.

Fair enough and its a good start from that perspective.

Was hoping for others to fill in, from where my post starts and from what it covers.

 

[sam9s]

Actually, the thread was never started with any 'one' person in mind, including yourself and I am dissapointed that you have made this personal, by linking this thread with another unrelated, atleast in my mind, thread.

mmm So you are saying you did not create this thread, keeping the argument we all had in the other thread.......if you say yes.....you are lying to your self.........

That LCDs have come a long ways, there is no two thoughts. But dollar for dollar, rupee to rupee, a Plasma still outshines a LCD under most conditions and for most uses. By the way, "less of a difference", means there is, "still a difference".

Enough people have actually answered, much to my satisfaction and so I would not comment to this statement explicitely. I know I was correct..........Statement like less a diffeence quote by you and still a difference are far far away from the initiall statements made which were labeling Plasma as "Clear Winner" or "Win hands down"....so in that perspective I stand correct and was successfully able to make my point.........

Actually, that is not entirely true. The human ability to hear, not in terms of volume, but rather the sound spectrum, varies a lot from person to person. It is also, almost impossible to scientifically measure, the exact ability of human hearing. This is not the case with viewing and there are scientific standards and various means to measure 'Visual Acuity'. "Visual acuity (VA) is defined as the acuteness or clearness of vision, especially form vision, which is dependent on the sharpness of the retinal focus within the eye and the sensitivity of the interpretative faculty of the brain". Thus the subjectiveness of 'video' parameters is far less than that of 'audio'.

At one point you yourself quoted...

Can't argue with that, my friend .... that meant the subjectiveness and now you refute......anyway....
What ever technical jargon you provide to prove or confuse, fact is
Whatever you view on a display...depends on various factors apart from just visual acuity......There can be a huge variation in color gamut, which a person can persive according to his/her liking of the color itself. The tint can be adjusted for the same. Some people might like matt finish, some may enjoy glossey image. Some would not enjoy the high contrast, while some would prefer to have the high gamma

The fact that both A/V can be measured with hardware does not mean you can quantify indivisual preference...........evrything that is pertaining to the characteristic of an individual is subjective.......be it Sound, Vision, Feel, Smell or Tast......... irrespective of how accurately we can measure it technically.

Extracts from my earlier post

 

[BLASTO]

We cannot conclude anything from this thread.
The title is too wide and deep to discuss.
Why do we need this thread?

 

[sanjay0864]

Actually, the thread was never started with any 'one' person in mind, including yourself and I am dissapointed that you have made this personal, by linking this thread with another unrelated, atleast in my mind, thread.

mmm So you are saying you did not create this thread, keeping the argument we all had in the other thread.......if you say yes.....you are lying to your self.........

YES, that is exactly what I am saying and thank you for now calling me a liar. You, surely do like making it personal, don't you? Whatever I had to say, regarding the question raised in that thread, I stated there. If I had more to say, I would do so in that thread. Why in the world would I need to start a seperate thread, if my intentions were only, to as you put it, "argue" about something in that thread? The reason, why I started a seperate thread, is because 'forum etiquette' demands, that instead of crapping over someone else's thread, a new one should be started when the discussion is no longer specifically relevant to the orginal topic of the thread. I would, as a rule and out of habit, never post cross references to other threads and I would request, that you please do the same. Please post, all discussions and references, related to the 'other' thread, in that thread itself.

Anyway as I always say, just like audio, video is subjective as well and I respect that difference.....

Can't argue with that, my friend. :clapping:

At one point you yourself quoted...
Can't argue with that, my friend .... that meant the subjectiveness and now you refute......anyway....

I apologize for trying to be polite and for trying to end the discussion amicabaly, ie. before it turned into a never ending argument. In any case, I was not actually conceding that 'video' is totally subjective, rather I was merely agreeing to, in the spirit of your conciliatory statement, "I respect that difference.... ". In fact, it is others who further took on the debate with you in that thread, while I kept quite. It is only, when you continued to, present your 'views' as 'facts', and that too in this thread, that I 'refuted' what was, to begin with, incorrect and quite misguiding.

What ever technical jargon you provide to prove or confuse, fact is
Whatever you view on a display...depends on various factors apart from just visual acuity......There can be a huge variation in color gamut, which a person can persive according to his/her liking of the color itself. The tint can be adjusted for the same. Some people might like matt finish, some may enjoy glossey image. Some would not enjoy the high contrast, while some would prefer to have the high gamma

The fact that both A/V can be measured with hardware does not mean you can quantify indivisual preference...........evrything that is pertaining to the characteristic of an individual is subjective.......be it Sound, Vision, Feel, Smell or Tast......... irrespective of how accurately we can measure it technically.[/I]

I suppose, the whole purpose of this forum and reviews by experts, is thus moot. The home page of this forum should simply state, "Everything is subjective and thus restricted to personal tastes, likes and dislikes. Thus, everybody please, just go audition everything yourself. Forum closed for discussion. Since, what others, including experts and engineers have to say is of no importance and all that matters is what one thinks, looks or sounds good".
Thank you for this enlightening thought and in the same spirit, I withdraw myself from any further discussion with you on the matter.
Take care.

 

[sam9s]

YES, that is exactly what I am saying and thank you for now calling me a liar. You, surely do like making it personal, don't you? Whatever I had to say, regarding the question raised in that thread, I stated there. If I had more to say, I would do so in that thread. Why in the world would I need to start a seperate thread, if my intentions were only, to as you put it, "argue" about something in that thread? The reason, why I started a seperate thread, is because 'forum etiquette' demands, that instead of crapping over someone else's thread, a new one should be started when the discussion is no longer specifically relevant to the orginal topic of the thread. I would, as a rule and out of habit, never post cross references to other threads and I would request, that you please do the same. Please post, all discussions and references, related to the 'other' thread, in that thread itself.

Below was your statement.................you still say this thread was not created pertaining to our argument in the other thread.....??????

The "aim" or purpose of the post, is clearly spelled out in the 'Title' of the thread. More specifically, the purpose is to 'try' to dispel some of the myths that are so commonly spread by tv salesman and by some over zealous, yet misinformed, members of this forum.

Tell me you are refering to somebody else..??????

I suppose, the whole purpose of this forum and reviews by experts, is thus moot. The home page of this forum should simply state, "Everything is subjective and thus restricted to personal tastes, likes and dislikes. Thus, everybody please, just go audition everything yourself. Forum closed for discussion. Since, what others, including experts and engineers have to say is of no importance and all that matters is what one thinks, looks or sounds good".
Thank you for this enlightening thought and in the same spirit, I withdraw myself from any further discussion with you on the matter.
Take care.

Man what logic!!!........so you are saying that if an engineer, expert, concludes that an XYZ comodoty is the best...........It has to be liked and appriciated by every one, so we close our eyes/ears and buy a product.......why??? because an engg or an expert says so
.....................why bother go and audition yourself..........

Engg experts can only, guide, advice and provide a technical stand point.....in the end it the end user consumer that has to view/hear and make a judgement.....and that by nature in itself makes the whole experience subjective........irrespective what an expert, engg, or we people on the fourm says......

 

[Eight1zero]

Wow.............

 

[sam9s]

^^ Wow to what

 

[psychotropic]

time out guys. This is just not productive or useful. It's not going to lead anywhere. No one is going to 'win' or 'lose'. LCD and plasma sales around the world are not going to get affected. Tempers will rise. Names will be called. Bans will be threatened. Why not call this off right now. Please?

 

[KonfuSed]

Can some of the MODs please close this thread (temporarily) untill the fire shimmers down? It's good to have argument but not while tempers are flying high.
And guys, please chill down, take a Blu-ray, get some popcorn and enjoy the movie on your Home Theaters and forget about whatever is going on in the world outside. Oh, that really works to cool things down ;-)

 

[sam9s]

I apologise guys for this.......... and I agree its not going anywhere, I was just trying to...........well forget it!!!......... Fire had actually died down ater I made post 14 and after that it was the casual "informative" discuession, when it was reignited "not by me" at post 30.....rest is all you can read.......anyway....mods can close this thread......no issues from my end.......cheers and e-Peace....