Lessons I've Learned - Tips N Tricks

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Lessons I've Learned - Guidelines

"Knowledge increases by sharing but not by saving."

1. Avoid buying a sound system without demoing

2. Dont go by features. Never take any haste decision and fire all guns at a time. Ask, listen, compare, judge and buy. In sound, quality is the most important factor, not quantity which the benefit you will understand after few months of exp

3. Stick to your budget with a deviation +/-10%. Think about practical use than show off prior burning a hole in your pocket.

4. For small rooms, HTIBs are best bet, no Floor standers, no bookshelf. (You will never be able to utilize its true potential)

5. Invest in FS/BS + Centre channel of same model at a time as chances are there that the model phases out and you may never get same center channel later

6. Many AVR brands make people a real buffoon in output wattage. Please note the actual power @ all channel driven and take THD into account prior investment

7. Give proper earthing to your electronic equipments, its mandatory

8. A system worth 50K does not require cable/power worth 20K and on proportionate basis when the prices go up. It does not make any sense until you have plans to upgrade.

9. Optimal placement is very crucial for any speakers to perform, else you will end up in listening to junk piece radio worth lakhs

10. Many dealers have better knowledge about what happens in real world & they understand your requirement in a better way. You read more in forum, the more you are confused and will end up in buying something else which might not be of your requirement

11. Never drive your AVR/AMP with 1 channel at higher/lower DB (often it happens in auto setup) and try to make it 0 for both channels. If one channels sounds low, the probable reasons are larger distance or sound waves getting cancelled due to front wall reflections. Use sound absorbers/reposition your speakers instead pumping up volume in single channel and you are done. The reason being, at peak volumes, the higher rated channel will get heated up more and eventually damage the circuit on long run

12. Try to give clean power to your amp and it will sound better for sure. But remember, majority cases it is not required and the quality of transformer used in power source is more important than features, if you are emphasized on clarity. A perfectly winded normal transformer (with good copper) will give you better results than normal toroidal one.

13. Invest in good player /DAC + Transport + AVR/Amp + Cables + Speakers. Any compromise in any among these will ditch the entire setup

14. For those idiots who says expensive HDMIs does not make any difference, hell with you. It does make huge difference which is evident in audio and minor difference for video. Still not convinced ?? connect to a TV with higher HZ and watch action scenes closely. (Ponder are these manufactures crazy enough to price their cable 100$ + if it does not make any difference at all)

15. For those who claims as experts in many forums may not have the right knowledge to guide you and 90% time they share their exp which might not be useful to you

16. Bargain hard with dealers and check out prices with atleast 4 sellers, you will end up in a good discount for sure.

17. Dont judge your system so fast, give it some time to open up and see what actually it could do.

18. Once you properly set up everything, try to listen rather than tweaking as your majority time will be lost in tweaking, not enjoying

19. Clean your equipments regularly and cover it and unplug when not in use

20. Always remember, musicians are very happy with cheap audio systems at their home and beginners run after technology and brands

21. Forgot to mention, always go for higher amplification instead clinking to claimed 50-75W power for many systems. The reason being, you need to pump up volume for the speakers to open up to its best and its impossible to go above 50 during late night (you will find neighbours queuing in front of your flat :ohyeah:). Also, try to opt for speakers above 89 db wherein you neither require bigger amp nor need to crank up for heavy listening

22. Lesser the cable distance between source (BDP/DAC/Laptop) and AVR/Amp, the better input signal and greater output.

One thing only I know, and that is that I know nothing.:signthankspin:

Pran.
 
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2. Dont go by features. Never take any haste decision and fire all guns at a time. Ask, listen, compare, judge and buy. In sound, quality is the most important factor, not quantity which the benefit you will understand after few months of exp

These are my "failings"...

1. Buying by features; paying extra for something unimportant.

2. Buying by looks! I guess I have reputation of being great rationalist, but we all have our weeknesses. Actually, we (and others!) do have to live with stuff, so looks do matter, and pride of ownership matters, but we should beware of seduction.

3. Going for a bargain which turns out to be false economy. Or even something actually unwanted and never used!

4. Saving money by not buying the thing I really wanted ... only to buy that thing later (the saying is, it is always cheaper to buy once), or having to go on living with the not-what-I-really-wanted feeling.
 
These are my "failings"...

2. Buying by looks! I guess I have reputation of being great rationalist, but we all have our weeknesses. Actually, we (and others!) do have to live with stuff, so looks do matter, and pride of ownership matters, but we should beware of seduction.

I give up here too. Looks matter for me too. Though, insignificant as it was just a flash drive, but just citing an example, I got myself a very elegant looking Toshiba flash drive last month, despite knowing that it has less write-speed than the competition.
Previously, I passed on a Dual turntable for how dashing a Technics with S arm looked in front of it.

Regards,
Saket
 
Excellent advice. One thing i can swear by is the "dealer knowledge". There are some dealers out there who know a thing or two and can suggest exactly what you need especially if you are a newbie. Music Ranch, Bangalore is one such dealer who guided my purchase and after each spectacular movie experience, i cannot help but thank him. Otherwise i know what i'd have gone with (don't want to mention the brands/models here).
Also demo for yourself and stick to your needs.
One more advice from me -
Demo at volume levels that you want to experience the movie at your home. I watch movies at high volumes in a dedicated room and if my avr does not have enough power to drive MY speakers then it results in distortion. This was the reason why i was suggested a high sensitive speakers and now even an entry level receiver can drive my speakers easily. Didn't know it then but was thankfully guided by the dealer.
 
Excellently written and agreed on most of the points...

I have a very basic HT setup in a small room (see signature) and I've been very happy and satisfied with the results since last 2 years.

But disagree on point no. 14 (In your opinion, I may be an idiot..LOL..but believe me if it is so, I happily would like to reciprocate.)
I have personally done the testing for all kind of audio-video set-ups at various dealers, friends' houses etc... and what do you mean by TV with higher Hertz... Most of the Bravia TVs have a max. refresh rate of 60 Hz already and never found any difference, even on a 55" TV...neither on a high end audio setup which run on some monstrous AVR like Denon 2113, nor on a small one like mine.

Let me say it loud like Justice Arnab...
I have never ever..ever ever...never ever found any difference in audio-video quality between a Rs. 150 HDMI and a Rs. 900 HDMI cable setup.
 
Re: Lessons I've Learned - Guidelines

"Knowledge increases by sharing but not by saving."

6. Many AVR brands make people a real buffoon in output wattage. Please note the actual power @ all channel driven and take THD into account prior investment
rs run after technology and brands.

Hi,
How to make use of the THD along with the given RMS/wattage? Sorry for such an elementary question but I can't help it; I'm a novice with the audio technicalities. :D Thanks!

BK
 
@ Technobhatt: I knew that would be the greatest point to argue, let me explain:

Gone are those days for TV with 60HZ. Now majority tv's are above 100 HZ and in simple layman's language, less hz means higher display motion blur (nothing related to size of screen). Just visit any big tv showroom and ask them to play action scenes on a 60 n 100 HZ tv, you will be surprised for sure (we may not notice it in casual watch).

Regarding HDMI, oh yes, there are marginal difference in motion smoothness, color rendition, brightness and a huge difference in audio (again, no one will detect the same in a casual watch). For this reason, i've kept few HDMI cables to prove the same. You are welcome to my house and if i fail, one day treat of yours is free from my end :D. Else, you may ask any dealer and he will never say the opposite.

@ MJ23Bulls: Actual RMS (all channel driven) and THD will be mentioned by all manufacturer in tiny letters at some corner of website or manual. Lower THD means the components in a loudspeaker or amplifier equipment produce a more accurate reproduction by reducing harmonics added by electronics and audio media.

Ps note that i have not made any comments based on any reviews. All above are my real world experiences.
 
@ Technobhatt: I knew that would be the greatest point to argue, let me explain:

Gone are those days for TV with 60HZ. Now majority tv's are above 100 HZ and in simple layman's language, less hz means higher display motion blur (nothing related to size of screen). Just visit any big tv showroom and ask them to play action scenes on a 60 n 100 HZ tv, you will be surprised for sure (we may not notice it in casual watch).

Regarding HDMI, oh yes, there are marginal difference in motion smoothness, color rendition, brightness and a huge difference in audio (again, no one will detect the same in a casual watch). For this reason, i've kept few HDMI cables to prove the same. You are welcome to my house and if i fail, one day treat of yours is free from my end :D. Else, you may ask any dealer and he will never say the opposite.

Ps note that i have not made any comments based on any reviews. All above are my real world experiences.

Sure, no problem. Whatever I tested was done almost 2 years back. I'll look forward to revisit the results.
 
@ Technobhatt: I knew that would be the greatest point to argue, let me explain:

Gone are those days for TV with 60HZ. Now majority tv's are above 100 HZ and in simple layman's language, less hz means higher display motion blur (nothing related to size of screen). Just visit any big tv showroom and ask them to play action scenes on a 60 n 100 HZ tv, you will be surprised for sure (we may not notice it in casual watch).

Regarding HDMI, oh yes, there are marginal difference in motion smoothness, color rendition, brightness and a huge difference in audio (again, no one will detect the same in a casual watch). For this reason, i've kept few HDMI cables to prove the same. You are welcome to my house and if i fail, one day treat of yours is free from my end :D. Else, you may ask any dealer and he will never say the opposite.

I only ask out of academic curiosity as I like to know as much about the theory and basic principles of how things work, as much as practical experience.

Per my understanding, all video source material is either in 24 frames per second (movies) (although some new movies are in 48fps), or 60 fps for TV broadcast.

The HDMI cable is responsible for transporting this source digital signal from the media player to your display unit (TV).

A 120Hz TV has an inbuilt set of chips that convert your source signal from 24Hz or 60Hz into 120Hz. Good chips also do additional image processing such as motion interpolation (soap opera effect or what I like to call "soft porn" effect)

My point is - since all the image processing and frame rate conversion is done in the image processing chips in the TV, why/how should the HDMI cable make a difference (even marginal) for TVs with high refresh rates?

I will freely admit that my logic is quite simplistic which is why I would like to understand this better if proven wrong.
 
@ asliarun: I 've already admitted that neither I have any knowledge nor have any high end systems to become expert of all trade, i beg your pardon. :)

Few things I learned in physics during school days regarding signal amplification may give a clear illustration:

Imagine a circuit/chipset or amplifier which is capable to amplify X3 (where x is input signal). Then if the input is 2, output will be 6 only, not 7 or 5.

What we discuss here about is conductivity of a cable, despite of signal it carries. All conductors have either natural or induced resistivity wherein Silver and Gold are best conductors and Copper followed by Aluminum comes later. The more resistivity the cable have, the less signal it pass (also alter the signal to an extend) and henceforth less amplified output. Also, during that kind of signal amplification, the circuit itself will add what we called EMI, Jitter, Noise etc to the processed signal. A good conductor should have less resistivity (current cant be passed where there is no resistivity, eg pure water) and must be well shielded to prevent it from external EMI.

To conclude: All manufacturer use marketing gimmicks for high and low priced cable. But the truth is, for expensive cables, they mix silver along with copper for better conductivity and copper for lower range (check the conductors used in diff cables). Also, sometimes they use cheap impure copper for cables worth 2-3 $ (please check per kg price of pure LME copper and you will faint) for purpose of commercial viability. And why these cables are expensive ?? because pure copper and silver are exorbitantly expensive. Hence quality conductors/cables are overpriced !

We all know that better speaker cables means better sound, ever pondered why ? The answer is conductivity and it applies to all cables despite of signals and it applies to HDMI too. So, theoretically proving, a 120 HZ tv with input signal of 60 hz will give better output than input signal with 55 HZ.

I would have rephrased my comment as good conductors instead expensive. Once again, please correct me if the above said is wrong. :sad:

Pran.
 
With all respect, whatever you said is valid, but for analog signals.

Digital signals work differently. They will either work or will not work, generally speaking. They will also often have error detection such as crc checksum and error correction.

There is absolutely no valid reason why audio over HDMI should sound better or worse with different cables or even video for that matter.

I shudder to think that if a cheap Ethernet cable could introduce errors, then the entire IT industry would be doomed. Your emails would have nasty spelling mistakes, data corruption, and bitrot happening all the time.

Heck, out of the hundred odd messages I have posted on hifivision, a good bunch of them should have spelling mistakes and junk characters because I was submitting my text over noisy and error prone WiFi.
 
We all know that better speaker cables means better sound...

I suppose it depends on how you define "better."

I would have rephrased my comment as good conductors instead expensive
:) Ahh, right... I'm afraid I don't trust most of the cable vendors to sell us anything but hot air --- which is not a very good conductor even when it is as humid as it is here in Chennai!

Among the sources which have helped form my thinking on this are:

Speaker Wire, A History

and the excellent articles, albeit from a seller of cables, at Blue Jeans Cables

If you are not already familiar with these, then do check them out: I know you will enjoy. I only do 2-channel, and my PC monitor is just a little but too old to have hdmi, so I have no experience of it at all. Obviously it is an important cable in any HT setup. Blue Jeans has some hdmi-specific articles.

By the way, gold is not such a good conductor. I guess that its use in electronics is due to the fact that it does not easily react with anything, so is largely resistant to oxidation and corrosion. The cables coming into my house are Aluminium, and the worst thing about that is that, if overloaded, it melts at temperatures way below copper, and burns out. Yes, I've been "burnt" (cable and wallet) by that one!

I shudder to think that if a cheap Ethernet cable could introduce errors, then the entire IT industry would be doomed. Your emails would have nasty spelling mistakes, data corruption, and bitrot happening all the time.
Apparently, cheap Ethernet cable does introduce errors. In fact, expensive ethernet cable may do so too.

Even with a couple of decades of work in IT management in small companies (which means being a jack of all trades: board room one day, crawling under desks with cables the next) I was astonished to learn, only recently, just how bad ethernet cables can be, and, apparently, most of them are!

Please see Audioholics, Why Your Cat6/5e Network Cable is Slowing You Down: Interview with Blue Jeans Cable and Blue Jeans: Is Your Cat 6 Cable a Dog?

We need to take all that in (and, perhaps, buy certified network leads from Blue Jeans (and no, I don't get any advertising fee even though I keep on plugging them :lol:)) into account, and consider that our networks, whether home or office, are probably running at much lower speeds than the fancy numbers indicated by the "CAT" number. However, the salient thing is that they still work error free, because the errors get corrected; it just slows things down a bit.

I have a wild theory (but not the equipment, cables and connectors to try it) that audio (but maybe not video) would work just fine over the old 10Mb thin ethernet --- so all this chasing of CATs, in the audio (but maybe not video) world is completely irrelevant.
 
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Few things I learned in physics during school days regarding signal amplification may give a clear illustration:

:confused:

"Will using a 5,000 USB cable make your printer better?"

However, unlike analog cables, there is no linear correlation between signal degradation and picture degradation.

Here's the deal: expensive HDMI cables offer no difference in picture quality over cheap HDMI cables.​

That CNET linkie also has some sciency stuff to explain the why

HDMI uses Transition Minimized Differential Signaling, or TMDS.

TMDS works really well. when something goes wrong, it goes really wrong.

In order for one HDMI cable to have "better picture quality" than another, it would imply that the final result between the source and display could somehow be different. It's not possible. It's either everything that was sent, or full of very visible errors (sparkles). The image cannot have more noise, or less resolution, worse color, or any other picture-quality difference. The pixels can't change. They can either be there (perfect, yay!) or not (nothing, errors, boo!).

When cable manufacturers claim their cables are "Made for 240 Hz" they are lying to you. The conversion to 120 or 240 Hz is done inside the TV. There is no such thing as a 120 Hz or 240 Hz signal. Blu-ray content is 1080p/24, though your player likely converts this to 1080p/60. This is the highest-bandwidth, non-computer source you can have, and even it is only 60 Hz​

I read that it is the same for Toslink cables too and currently use a 129.00 INR optical cable and a 90 INR HDMI cable. With my current rig everything is peachy.

And I have just broken your Rule # 1 in an attempted upgrade ... which is an impatient gamble that it will work out, and not something reasoned out. :rolleyes:

ciao
gr
 
What a helpful article Thad !

Regarding gold, i wrote it by mistake and you are absolutely right.

@ Sound Cycle: I read this article much before and believed like a stupid for long time till some branded cable gave pain in my A**. People will never get convinced till the time they see or experience it themselves, despite of how hard i try. Again i repeat, only little difference in video and great dif in audio (not because of expensive, but conductivity).

I pity on my poor knowledge. :(

"Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it."
 
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@ asliarun: I 've already admitted that neither I have any knowledge nor have any high end systems to become expert of all trade, i beg your pardon. :)

Few things I learned in physics during school days regarding signal amplification may give a clear illustration:

Imagine a circuit/chipset or amplifier which is capable to amplify X3 (where x is input signal). Then if the input is 2, output will be 6 only, not 7 or 5.

What we discuss here about is conductivity of a cable, despite of signal it carries. All conductors have either natural or induced resistivity wherein Silver and Gold are best conductors and Copper followed by Aluminum comes later. The more resistivity the cable have, the less signal it pass (also alter the signal to an extend) and henceforth less amplified output. Also, during that kind of signal amplification, the circuit itself will add what we called EMI, Jitter, Noise etc to the processed signal. A good conductor should have less resistivity (current cant be passed where there is no resistivity, eg pure water) and must be well shielded to prevent it from external EMI.

To conclude: All manufacturer use marketing gimmicks for high and low priced cable. But the truth is, for expensive cables, they mix silver along with copper for better conductivity and copper for lower range (check the conductors used in diff cables). Also, sometimes they use cheap impure copper for cables worth 2-3 $ (please check per kg price of pure LME copper and you will faint) for purpose of commercial viability. And why these cables are expensive ?? because pure copper and silver are exorbitantly expensive. Hence quality conductors/cables are overpriced !

We all know that better speaker cables means better sound, ever pondered why ? The answer is conductivity and it applies to all cables despite of signals and it applies to HDMI too. So, theoretically proving, a 120 HZ tv with input signal of 60 hz will give better output than input signal with 55 HZ.

I would have rephrased my comment as good conductors instead expensive. Once again, please correct me if the above said is wrong. :sad:

Pran.

Interesting comment. I'd like to have some clarification about the highlighted parts.

Highlight 1 - That's got nothing to do with the quality of the cable/conductor. Or does it? Are you saying an amplifier can amplify 2 to 5 or 6 or 7 based on what conductor it was received?

Or did I misinterpret you while you were trying to say an HDMI cable is an amplifier? And that a better HDMI cable will more consistently amplify 2 to 6 rather than 5 or 7?

Please do clarify.

Highlight 2 - Are you saying that with reference to analogue signal or digital signal? I hope you are aware that HDMI carries digital signal, not analogue. I also hope you know how digital signal works?

Would you please elaborate on the "alteration" to a signal by the cable due to it's resistivity/EMI and any other external factors that you think. Please keep it limited to how it affects digital signal, not analogue.

Highlight 3 - There is a more correct answer to that. And that is -- they target people (supposedly who are not idiots), who think more money means better cable. It's akin to wearing an expensive watch. More expensive the watch, better the feeling, better the confidence. Same happens when one buys a more expensive digital cable. It's assurance of buying a higher quality product, rather than buying a better working product. Because digital doesn't work better, it either works or it doesn't (unless one creates a specific situation where a digital transmission should fail). The only thing that can affect digital transmission is Jitter. And for Jitter to become an issue in a digital cable, a cable either has to be too long or too pathetic quality. Any cable made out of decent material works without fail for normal length of runs. So, the only reason behind more expensive HDMI cables is the confidence it brings about it's build quality and reputation.
 
@ Sound Cycle: I read this article much before and believed like a stupid for long time till some branded cable gave pain in my A**. People will never get convinced till the time they see or experience it themselves, despite of how hard i try. Again i repeat, only little difference in video and great dif in audio (not because of expensive, but conductivity).

"Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it."

The HDMI cable carries as an encrypted digital stream, and is an entirely passive "device". Something that does nothing cannot affect the picture or sound quality.

I have not found a pixel peeping type test for audio, but there is a report for video

After methodically testing each cable, our comprehensive results revealed the truth. We couldnt find a single error in any of the frames of video we captured using our tests, regardless of the cable we used. Even allowing for a single error per billion bits, none of our captured frames contained as much as a single pixel out of order by a single colour shade. The MD5 hash values backed up our findings the captured frames were identical to the original ones​

ciao
gr
 
@ Ranjeet:

Highlight 1: Forget theory, connect your laptop to avr. Test 1: Adjust volume of lap to 50 and avr to 80. Test 2: Adjust lap volume to 100 and avr to 80 and merry. :P

Manufacturer generally don't mention (or hide) the rated input to all these amp's or avr. If input signal ratio doesn't matter, whats the purpose of pre amp / headphone amp ?? to blew out your skull ?? Cables do not act as amp, but it may send the actual signal as it is with few loss, the few the better.

Highlight 2: I read it 2 years before, Pls check http://www.audioquest.com/hdmi/vodka for conductors inside the cables

Highlight 3: "In digital transmission, the number of bit errors is the number of received bits of a data stream over a communication channel that have been altered due to noise, interference, distortion or bit synchronization errors in conductor (BER). The rest is already explained in boltzmann constant theory.

Pran
 
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@ Ranjeet:

"In digital transmission, the number of bit errors is the number of received bits of a data stream over a communication channel that have been altered due to noise, interference, distortion or bit synchronization errors in conductor (BER). The rest will explain to you with help of boltzmann constant theory later.

Pran

Sure. Look forward to hear how that relates to HDMI and digital data transmission.
 
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