Lessons I've Learned - Tips N Tricks

[Raghav_K]

Re: Lessons I've Learned - Guidelines

I have one more tip to add:

If you have poor bargaining skills, and want a better price, and if you have loads of patience, do an audition, give your number to them, and wait for their call after one month

I had auditioned at profx and grand cinema before going with my current setup last month.. Got a call from both of em today, and they were ready to offer more discount than the previously offered 10%... I said am done with my purchases, for now!

Again, might not work always, but maybe worth trying...

P.S: i wonder how many of us have that kind of patience..

P.S 2: totally skipping that hdmi cable discussion above :-D

 

[sound_cycle]

@ Sound cycle:

Again i repeat, only little difference in video and great dif in audio (not because of expensive, but conductivity)

I think you missed:
No comments, no arguments. My bad, my bad, my bad.

Posting what I read here below

HDMI is totally digital and designed in such a way that the cable cannot possibly make a difference to sound or picture. Any difference in quality can only be down to source or sink electronics.

the [hdmi] cable is passive , just dumb old copper wire , it cannot change the data content being carried on it , in any useful way whatsoever.

The Fact is , and make no mistake that I mean to say Fact , there is no room for opinions here , the FACT is , that any working HDMI cable carries picture and sound exactly the same as any other.

There can be no comparison with analog cables where differences can and do exist.

The engineering specifically states that differences [between cheap and expensive HDMI cables] are impossible and this can be proven with absolute certainty.

There is no error correction on the HDMI interface.

There is no interpolation on HDMI.

Jitter cannot possibly be caused by the cable in any HDMI application.

If you had a bad cable you would know it immediately , the nature of the digital delivery system in the case of HDMI does not allow any grades of quality. It essentially comes down to a very black and white situation. It works perfectly or not at all.

​

(I've quoted from multiple posts by someone who says he has been bench testing HDMI chipsets and devices. I am now comprehensively and firmly entrenched in the cheap HDMI cable/ idiots camp.)

ciao
gr

 

[[email protected]]

Please read below: :lol:

You are welcome to my house and if i fail, one time treat of yours is free from my end .

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I luuuurve cable controversy

But I find it hard to get enthusiastic enough about hdmi to read it up properly, because I'm unlikely to use it ever, except, maybe one day if a new PC monitor demands it.

With the proviso that I've only glanced, I still suggest that those on both (or should that be all?) sides of the hdmi question check out the Blue Jeans (my cable gods! :lol: I might even buy something from them one day!) hdmi articles. This might be a good starting point.

 

[[email protected]]

Friends and dear HFV members,

Lets focus on thing we've learned rather than arguing on a simple topic. I think this thread is moving away from focus.

1. Please turn off your AVR/Amp display for late night ghazals/classicals so that the distortions would be less.

2. Use a good quality scratch guard for your avr display and you will get a better resale value for sure (clean glass, clean looks )

3. Initial speaker burn is mandatory (to define its life) & dont play the speaker in full volume continuously.

4. In Denon AVR, the ref level makes big difference to sound. Try to utilize it.

Pran.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Friends and dear HFV members,

Lets focus on thing we've learned rather than arguing on a simple topic.

Sure. Plenty of cable-controversy threads.

Please turn off your AVR/Amp display for late night ghazals/classicals so that the distortions would be less.

This should not happen It's nice to be able to dim/off display for late-night listening, but if I could hear the difference I think I'd be very unhappy. Not saying it's impossible, though.

Use a good quality scratch guard for your avr display

When items come with a [unprinted] protective film, I always just leave it there for as long as it lasts. My Cowon A2 PMP still has its factory film for over ten years.

 

[Shivam]

Lessons that I have learnt over the years -

Costliest and the best electronics also fail.

Any component once purchased becomes 'used' and will never fetch good price.

No wonder how much I promise myself that this will be my last and final upgrade, upgraditits always hits again.

It is better to buy what you long for in the first place rather than buying it at a later date through routes of upgrades.

No height is unreachable for a kid.

Bookshelves won't give good bass in a medium sized room and floorstanders will not play to their full extent in that room.

No matter what people say about diffusion, reflections and absorption - a good room in my opinion is the one which comes close to an anechoic chamber.

I don't hear any difference in digital interconnects (I said it !). Those who do must be blessed or cursed.

 

[bullet.350]

as many suggested always prefer high sensitivity rating speaker
but why........

89 db speaker + 100W .....equal to..... 91 db speaker + 50W

each 3db increase speaker require half power.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

It is better to buy what you long for in the first place rather than buying it at a later date through routes of upgrades.

As I quoted, buying once is always cheaper than buying twice. The only thing is that. if that windfall does come, and we go out and buy the best we can imagine, we won't have had the experience of travelling the path to get there.

(but hey, I guess I could live with that )

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

as many suggested always prefer high sensitivity rating speaker
but why........

89 db speaker + 100W .....equal to..... 91 db speaker + 50W

each 3db increase speaker require half power.

89 db speaker + 100W .....equal to..... 91 db speaker + 50W

Watts is the most over-rated hifi spec items

(I learnt that when I upgraded a midfi 120W amp to a much superior 50W amp)

 

[ranjeetrain]

Highlight 1: Forget theory, connect your laptop to avr. Test 1: Adjust volume of lap to 50 and avr to 80. Test 2: Adjust lap volume to 100 and avr to 80 and merry.

I don't think you are making any sense with your approach of explanation. May be you would like to try again? I still can't see how what you said relates to the question we had. The topic was HDMI cables. Now are you saying that that's related to the volume at laptop and AVR?

From your posts it seems you don't understand what is digital transmission, because HDMI cable has got NOTHING to do with the laptop volume or AVR volume.

If there is a relevance according to you, please explain it.

Manufacturer generally don't mention (or hide) the rated input to all these amp's or avr. If input signal ratio doesn't matter, whats the purpose of pre amp / headphone amp ?? to blew out your skull ?? Cables do not act as amp, but it may send the actual signal as it is with few loss, the few the better.

You are again straying from the topic, apparently because your lack of understanding of how digital differs from analogue, which in turn is evident from your inability to separate examples from analogue domain whereas the discussion is about digital.

The question is how resistivity and EMI that you were mentioning affect HDMI cable performance. Would you kindly explain?

Highlight 3: "In digital transmission, the number of bit errors is the number of received bits of a data stream over a communication channel that have been altered due to noise, interference, distortion or bit synchronization errors in conductor (BER). The rest is already explained in boltzmann constant theory.

Really? I am very surprised.

Kindly explain, what is boltzmann constant theory and how is that related to digital transmission.

I doubt if you even understand the "theory". Boltsmann's work was in the field of thermodynamics, radiation, and gases, and in no way explains why one HDMI cable could work better than the other (except under two circumstances that most people know about).

Please elaborate your point. If you can't, it's okay. I know a lot of people talk about subjects they don't understand well.

 

[[email protected]]

Neither i said that i have knowledge nor mentioned that i am right. Its what i've experienced.

 

[[email protected]]

Dear Ranjeet: I've already shifted my focus from hdmi controversy. That doesnt mean that i am scared or running away from topic. The reason being, each person is different and their experiences are different, i respect yours. I started this topic to share what i experienced, not to know what others think about me or my knowledge (i am least bothered). You might felt that i tried to challenge your knowledge, if so, thats not the reality. Please read the blue jeans cable article shared by fm thad. I have no knowledge, happy to admit it. And, fyi, i am a studio artist where recording, composing and interacting with many sound artist is my routine job and it will become my bread and butter in coming years. So these healthy discussions will help us in designing a new recording studio. Thank you for your valuable inputs.:clapping:

Pran

 

[[email protected]]

Thad,

Could you please provide lime light on this topic and please educate me how ultra high end speakers and amp perform at 2-7 watts ?

Watts is the most over-rated hifi spec items

(I learnt that when I upgraded a midfi 120W amp to a much superior 50W amp)

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Pran, I didn't say one did not need enough watts, just that more watts is not necessarily better. In the example I gave, obviously both amplifiers were (are, I still have them!) able to comfortably drive the speakers.

 

[[email protected]]

Thad,

I also dint mean it. I said, saw specs if some high end audio like lyrita with max power of 7 watts (just eg), hence asked.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Oh I see! Sorry.

Answers to those questions have to come from the tube amp guys. Yes, they work on very low wattage and produce some wonderful sounds

 

[ketansethi1987]

Sorry Guys!

Dont want to drag the HDMI discussion!

My Comment: Let us assume that expensive HDMI cables do give better video and sound than inexpensive ones

My Point: The difference in quality is not as much as the difference in price.... so no need to go for an expensive HDMI cable

Example: Suppose there are 2 cables of same length Rs. 150 and Rs. 1500... The difference in quality would be max 1 time more (just assuming) and not 10 times more so paying price that is 10 times of the normal cable is not worth it

Personally I could find any difference between expensive and inexpensive HDMI cable nor I could find any difference between a cable of 1 mtr length and a cab;e of 10 mtr length (Rs. 550 only)... screen size was 120 inches on a projector so if there was any difference due to materials used in cable or length, it would have been easily noticed

However I do believe expensive cables may last longer

 

[Santy]

In order for one HDMI cable to have "better picture quality" than another, it would imply that the final result between the source and display could somehow be different. It's not possible. It's either everything that was sent, or full of very visible errors (sparkles). The image cannot have more noise, or less resolution, worse color, or any other picture-quality difference. The pixels can't change. They can either be there (perfect, yay!) or not (nothing, errors, boo!).

This could indeed happen with long, cheap HDMI cables. I had bought a cheap 10 metre HDMI cable from ebay which does not transmit 120hz signal (at 720p) that was needed for 3D on my projector. Over a period of time even 1080p started to show grains or flakes on the screen. It is neither 1 (perfect) nor 0 (blank) but 1 that is corrupted. So arguments that all HDMI cables are equal are valid only for short distances IMHO. For long distances, quality and durability does matter as it was in my case (and cable should be of high speed). Ofcourse the signal or picture does not change, just that there could be transmission failures due to bad cable.

There is no such thing as a 120 Hz or 240 Hz signal.

Not entirely true. As I just said above, I have to feed my projector with 120 hz signal for 3d to work (its a 3D ready projector).

Even if its not 3D, I can still set my graphic card output to 120 hz but ofcourse there may be no media content with native 120 fps (could be useless too). But hey, there are 3D games you can play at higher than 60 fps if your GPU has the juice.

 

[sound_cycle]

It is neither 1 (perfect) nor 0 (blank) but 1 that is corrupted. So arguments that all HDMI cables are equal are valid only for short distances IMHO. For long distances, quality and durability does matter as it was in my case (and cable should be of high speed).

I respect your opinion and experience and would humbly point out it would have some other reason.

I had posted a link to a test where they actually verified each and every pixel and could not find differences across cheap and expensive cable.

The feeling/ perception/ experience/ subjective has no place, in the present discussion, because it can be measured and proven that there are no differences across cheap and expensive cables.

It works like this, input a known bit-stream at one end of the cable and measure it at the other end. If what went was not what you got out, then the cable is having an effect on the signal, otherwise it is not. And the CNET test did this over a very large number of pixels

As for longer distances, "It is not only the cable that factors into how long a cable can successfully carry an HDMI signal, the receiver chip inside the TV or projector also plays a major factor"

ofc the same page also says

"With any long run of an HDMI cable, quality manufactured cables can play a significant role in successfully running HDMI over such longer distances"

It would however remain an all or none, no subtle difference possible affair.

It also says

High Speed (or category 2) HDMI cables have been tested to perform at speeds of 340Mhz or up to 10.2Gbps, which is the highest bandwidth currently available over an HDMI cable and can successfully handle 1080p signals including those at increased color depths and/or increased refresh rates from the Source. High-Speed cables are also able to accommodate higher resolution displays, such as WQXGA cinema monitors (resolution of 2560 x 1600)
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Oh, and current cables will work with HDMI 2

Take a look at this one, a little dated, but the spec stays the same I guess

As per the current HDMI 1.4 spec, in order for an HDMI cable to be considered high-speed, it must be able to pass 3,840x2,160 pixels at up to 30 frames per second (and 4,096x2,160 at 24 frames per second).

This means that even the cheapest high-speed HDMI cable can pass the maximum resolution possible with the current generation of Ultra HD 4K TVs.
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I have not read up on the 3D stuff, yet (I must confess video does not really attract my interest). There is an article here by the same guy, and also a 2011 piece

ciao
gr