Life with a NAD C356

[mpw]

rohit,

i listened to the usual suspects the Denon 710, Philips FA 931 ( my previous amp ), Marantz 6004, NAD C355..

I had not heard the C356 before i bought it. I jumped for it based on reviews and on the the basis if having extensively neard the NAD C355.


regards,
mpw

 

[mpw]

hi guys..

last night i removed the pre out2 to Mains Jumpers on the rear panel of the NAD C356 and connected the pre-out from my HK AVR to the NAD. This converted the NAD to a pure Power Amp Only ( no integrated crap ).

The sound now is in another league.. ( Mayhem Metal .. pls try this if possible .. ).

Now i realize why Pre Power combo is better than Integrated..

I think i took another small step forward in this never ending journey :-((

and i think i can predict that after the pre-power bug.. it will be the tubes bug that will bite..

anyways.. now my setup is a 2.1 ( the sub is driven from the HK AVR ).

heyy.. i also changed the inputs to the sub from LFA to the 2 RCA ( line level )..using BJC tartan cables for that.

got new CD's which my bro sent me and now its more music.. before i post more observations..

comments welcome..

regards,
mpw

 

[BLASTO]

hi guys..

last night i removed the pre out2 to Mains Jumpers on the rear panel of the NAD C356 and connected the pre-out from my HK AVR to the NAD. This converted the NAD to a pure Power Amp Only ( no integrated crap ).

The sound now is in another league.. ( Mayhem Metal .. pls try this if possible .. ).

Now i realize why Pre Power combo is better than Integrated..

I think i took another small step forward in this never ending journey :-((

and i think i can predict that after the pre-power bug.. it will be the tubes bug that will bite..

anyways.. now my setup is a 2.1 ( the sub is driven from the HK AVR ).

heyy.. i also changed the inputs to the sub from LFA to the 2 RCA ( line level )..using BJC tartan cables for that.

got new CD's which my bro sent me and now its more music.. before i post more observations..

comments welcome..

regards,
mpw

You are confusing two different stuff.
This does not mean pre-power is better.
Infact, a NAD integrate connected the same way and HK AVR replaced with a NAD pre will sound almost the same.
You probably hit a unusual and not tried combo which works well (for you that is).

 

[mpw]

maybe blasto.. but it sounds good.. what i tried to convey in my post was this..

for folks having an AVR with a pre out and an integrated amp.. one can convert the integrated into power and use the AVR as a pre amp of sorts.

Anyways.. yesterday night i thought i got most value out of the setup i have. Have to listen to more music before i can pass better judgment.

regards,
mpw

 

[avidyarthy]

... now add a pair of TLs to get a more ravishing SQ .....

 

[kumarab]

Congrats, enjoy the music.

I have to comment on your connectivity choices though. I hope you do realize, that with your latest changes (AVR as pre, using bass management)..you're essentially listening to the sound of your AVR (DAC) and not your SA7001. That is fine,of course, but I just wanted to point this out.

 

[mpw]

kumarb,

thanks for raising the point.

Question - how do i verify its the AVR DAC or the CDP DAC thats playing ?

and if i with to use the CDP DAC but use the AVR as only as pass thru pre ( since i dont have a proper pre amp ).. how do i go about doing it ?

Previously the CDP was connected directly to the NAD. My "keeda" - to get the sub into play saw me do all this reconnection exercise. Basically i like playing around with things. Basically although i am happy with the Titans. i always wanted a FS ( still dont have the money.. my wifey and mom will fry me if i suggest them for this.. Hmm .. have to find a way out.. ) .. so in order to cover for this.. i looked at getting the sub into play.. to basicaly exhaust all options before plonking money on FS and this also keeps the time passing by so that the existing setup is used to the max possible.

pointers welcome..

regards,
mpw

 

[anm]

if you have connected digital to avr from dac, then it is avr's dac. If you have connected analog out of cdp to receiver, then this is how it would be working dac of cdp -> adc of avr -> dac of avr

 

[kumarab]

You're most welcome.

*There's nothing to verify. IF you're using bass management, then it is the AVR DAC that you're listening to. Your AVR has to convert the incoming signal to digital, perform the bass management, and convert it to analog again.

*If you choose anything other than Direct/Pure Direct on your AVR, then you're basically using its own DAC.

HOWEVER, there is a way to use the SUB even in these modes. I don't know what options your HK has, but Denon and Onkyo AVRs have this in the form of LFE+MAIN and Double Bass respectively. What this basically does is send all bass frequencies to the SUB and the Fronts at the same time. You can play around to see if you like this mode--and you'll have to experiment a bit with your SUB gain settings as well.

Conventional audiophile wisdom will tell you that your AVR DAC absolutely cannot sound equal/better than the one in SA7001. I for one, do not believe in DAC magic (no pun intended). So, if you absolutely must use bass management, then I'd suggest connecting the CDP to your AVR digitally. For SACDs, you'll have to go back to analog though.

What SUB do you have? If it has speaker level inputs..then you can always run it in parallel to the main speakers from the NAD.

 

[mpw]

kumarb & anm,

Many thanks for your replies..

i have connected the CDP to the AVR with 2RCA analog. The AVR is played on 2 ch stereo mode.

The HK AVR 255 has a L/R + LFE for bass management and i tried that too.

I agree with you.. AVR DAC may not be as good as CDP DAC. I bought the SACDP primarily for supreiopr DAC and it seems to me to be a waste if i dont use the DAC of the Marantz SACDP 7001.

The reason i took this long cut is that my sub does not have crossover control. The crossover setting is to be done on the AVR. My sub is a JBL CSS10. its fantastic for movies.

the easiest way out would be to connect the CDP to the NAD ( again back to integrated ) and use the NAD pre outs to drive the sub ( if it has xover control ).

Alternately.. i could go in for FS.. but as i said.. due to funds and WAF .. this may not be possible now.

The sub has Line level inputs though.. but no xover control.. and the NAD had no xover control also ( obviously ).

Welcome thoughts on this..

regards,
mpw

 

[anm]

Elaborating on what is already said above:
if you want to ditch AVR's dac, but still use sub:
analog out from cdp to nad.
put two sets of speaker cable on nad's speaker out, and send speaker level input to sub. Use sub's crossover to integrate with your main speakers.
Here there is a catch - full range signal goes to your main. There is no crossover assisting, but your mains' natural roll off to cut off low frequencies.

 

[kumarab]

Ok, so you only have line-level inputs, so the parallel speaker wiring option goes down the bin. Alright..here are two more options for you-

1) Does the NAD have a Tape-Out? If yes, simply connect that to your SUB. Since the SUB has no Xover knob, it'll be playing everything to its limits.

2) Keep your AVR in Direct/Pure Direct mode. Get yourself two RCA Y-Adapters--connect the two Y adapters to each pre-out channel on the AVR. Run one set of RCAs to the SUB, and the other set to the NADs input. Again, the SUB will be playing everything it can.

Both these options allow you to listen to the DAC in your SA7001. Mind you--the bass you'll be hearing under both these situations can be overwhelming, depending on SUB/Speaker placement, timing/ phase angle issues etc. So you'll have to experiment quite a bit to tame things down. Cheers

 

[mpw]

reconnected the CDP to the NAD direct ( ditched the AVR !! ) used a BJC LC-1 to connect the Line IN of the subwoofer to the preout of the NAD. Lets see how this works.. Hope there will not be too much interference between the fronts and the sub.

regards,
mpw

 

[anm]

great! waiting for your listening impressions.

 

[Vishal]

MPW- I am keenly auditioning the NAD's and have my heart set on the 326. Your suggestion is spot-on on buying the 326 for a med sized mumbai apt. I'm trying to decide between PSB, Paradigm and KEF to pair with the NADs. Hard to make a choice..

Also - should I future proof it by getting a PSB image T5 FS instead of BS?

 

[mpw]

if you have the funds and room size.. look at the T5 else you may choose between PSB or Paradigm or whatever suits your ear and music. The T5 should be adequate for smaller to medium rooms.

If you go for BS.. try to mount them on stands for even better audio.

mpw

 

[Hari Iyer]

MPW- I am keenly auditioning the NAD's and have my heart set on the 326. Your suggestion is spot-on on buying the 326 for a med sized mumbai apt. I'm trying to decide between PSB, Paradigm and KEF to pair with the NADs. Hard to make a choice..

Also - should I future proof it by getting a PSB image T5 FS instead of BS?

If you would like the TLs i can make the ATLs for you. follow the link below for more details,

http://www.hifivision.com/av-lounge/25562-evening-spent-tweaking-avidyarthys-atl-speakers.html
You can speak directly with Avid for more details. these speakers were installed at his home today.

Cheers,
Hari.

 

[Hari Iyer]

If you go for BS.. try to mount them on stands for even better audio.

mpw

I do not know the science behind mounting BS on stands. If its logical then why are they called Book Shelves. They should be called Stand speakers. As per my opinion or theroticaly keeping BS speakers on an actual book-shelf besides books, where there can be minimum diffraction and back wall cancellation should make it sound better than on actual stands. Mounting them on stands can increase the mid-range but reduce the already deficient bass on BS. But i do not have any practical experience of mounting BS on stands though. Will want to experiment them if i can borrow one for a couple of days.

 

[Flash]

As per my opinion or theroticaly keeping BS speakers on an actual book-shelf besides books, where there can be minimum diffraction and back wall cancellation should make it sound better than on actual stands. Mounting them on stands can increase the mid-range but reduce the already deficient bass on BS. .

Eh ????? No comments

But i do not have any practical experience of mounting BS on stands though. Will want to experiment them if i can borrow one for a couple of days

Good idea..

Sturdy, well-designed speaker stands place the speaker on a solid platform, which helps achieve the best overall sound quality, especially bass. Speakers placed on a shelf or table often cause the surface to vibrate or resonate thus distorting bass. Solid speaker stands isolate the speaker's vibrations from the floor allowing you to hear the bass from the speaker and not vibrations from a shelf, table or floor or Books

So you should see bass tightening up with clearer definition and as you clearly mentioned better mid range clarity

 

[mpw]

I do not know the science behind mounting BS on stands. If its logical then why are they called Book Shelves. They should be called Stand speakers. As per my opinion or theroticaly keeping BS speakers on an actual book-shelf besides books, where there can be minimum diffraction and back wall cancellation should make it sound better than on actual stands. Mounting them on stands can increase the mid-range but reduce the already deficient bass on BS. But i do not have any practical experience of mounting BS on stands though. Will want to experiment them if i can borrow one for a couple of days.

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to my untrained ear hari.. there is a clear advantage to stands. Why they are called book shelves and not stand mounted.. i think every bookshelf speaker can be stand mounted for even better isolation and thus better bass and sound. By better bass... i dont mean.. more thump.. but better continuity.

before i got the stands.. i used to keep the speakers on a TV shelf and the stands are much better. the speakers look better too on stands.. and i generally move the speakers ( on stands ) veen further away while listeining. After i am done with listening music.. i push the stands ( and speakers ) back into their place. Sometimes.. i even pull the speakers forward.. these are the advantages of stands.

Most welcome to listen to the Titans at my home.. you could get your speakers along and we can put them on my speaker stands and test.

mpw

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