Lubrication for turntables

[Norton]

Hi there,
Just stumbled upon a brilliant idea of using clock oil for lubricating turntable spindles and motor's.
In my opinion, clock oil works wonders and is the closest one can get to friction free movement and minimum temperatures
Was looking around for some really good quality oil when i came across a small watch repair shop who recommended the same.
I tested it on the spindle of my Thorens TD 124, after cleaning the old remains with a rolled up tissue paper until the paper came out clean. Used a couple of drops and the platter will now rotate for a good number of times when nudged gently.
Apologies if this has already been shared by any other person.

 

[jls001]

Can you kindly let us know brand of oil, likely type of shop where one might get such oil? Is it simply known as watch oil?
Thanks in advance.

I use a couple of drops of sewing machine oil on the 124 bearing, and even on the idler.

 

[Shivam]

Sewing machine oil is a no-no. It causes dust to stick and at a later date can totally spoil the mechanism. WD40 also should not be used.
Wet lubricants for watches and bicycle chains (finish line) are good.

Another useful link-
http://homepage2.nifty.com/pantone/thorens/lubricant.htm

 

[jls001]

Dust should not be a problem. The tolerance between bushing and bearing are usually very tight, some felt washer usually covers the hole of the bushing so that oil does not escape from the bushing (and does not allow dust to enter from outside), and finally there is a platter that covers most of this assembly from the top like some lid.

If the moving parts were exposed, yes, the sticky oil (any oil) will certainly attract dust.

 

[sachu888]

I feel thin oil works best in Lenco as Joshua mentioned that bearing tolerance is very tight.It should be additive free.I am using SAE 32 grade pure synthetic Compressore oil(without any additive).I have read on LH that Oilte bearings made to work with min lubrication.I have recently shifted from thick to thin oil and the difference is amazing.

Regards,
Sachin

 

[kuruvilajacob]

Joshua,
There are few grades of clock oil available. I use the very expensive of these for lubricating the tone arm assembly bearings. This particular grade is manufactured in Switzerland (according to the shop guys) and repacked in tiny bottles.Size of the bottle is only as big as the bottles in which Homeo medicines come No particular brand name comes on it since it is repacked. Then there is clock oil which is about Rs 15 for a bottle ( I will post picture of the bottle tonight). This clock oil is what I use in bearings, motor and spindle. If you approach a friendly watch repairer, he may be able to give you better information about it I am sure. One thing is sure, watch oils are supposed to withstand temperature and not to dry fast. So they should be ideal for servicing turntable parts.

 

[Norton]

Joshua
Will go back to my watch friend and get the name of the oil.
Just used it on tonearm bearings and it works wonders.

 

[vin_eme]

Is it called as the white Oil?. I got it from one of the sewing machine servicing guy. He said the watch guys also use it for servicing. It just looks like transparent liquid, and also the consistency is almost water.
He says the dust will not stick and specially got it for this reason.
I am yet to use it on my Dual (Not able to find time).

thanks,
Vince

 

[Saket]

I have been using synthetic engine oils (5W/30) for last few years for lubricating all moving parts & pivots in my turntables. I used Castrol fully synthetic oil (Rs. 750/- per litre) while restoring my Technics TT too. That included lubrication of platter bush & tonearm bearings as well. There have been no issues in the turntable at all with regard to lubrication.

Recently, on of of my tts - A philips, the tonearm pivot somehow got rusted and I was unaware about it for long as it is rarely used. When I tried to play that TT, the tonearm would not move freely at all. It would stuck where one left it; even in the air! I can certify the efficacy of such oils as a drop of synthetic oil was enough to free the tone arm. Later, as corrective action, I changed the pin which locked the tonearm to the base of the deck/ plinth which had rusted.

The point to keep in mind is that most Technics DD turntables including SL-1200s require 2-3 drops of oil once every 2000 playing hours which is a very long service interval in terms of lubrication.

 

[jls001]

One of my thoughts when considering the right lubricant for a turntable is why shouldn't four-stroke engine oil not be good enough for a turntable? After all, such lubricants are designed to withstand the high temperatures of an engine compartment and also to not break down (at the molecular level) at the highest rpms of motor car engines (typically 5000 to 6000 rpm). Following the same line of thinking, motorcycle engine oils ought to be even better as they are designed for much higher rpms (consider the top rev of 10500 rpm for a Bajaj Pulsar 180 DTSi)!

But from recent posts of Sachin, it seems the additives in engine oils can harm the moving parts of the TT. See post # 51 here. The right oil seems to be fully synthetic compressor oil.

 

[Saket]

One of my thoughts when considering the right lubricant for a turntable is why shouldn't four-stroke engine oil not be good enough for a turntable? After all, such lubricants are designed to withstand the high temperatures of an engine compartment and also to not break down (at the molecular level) at the highest rpms of motor car engines (typically 5000 to 6000 rpm). Following the same line of thinking, motorcycle engine oils ought to be even better as they are designed for much higher rpms (consider the top rev of 10500 rpm for a Bajaj Pulsar 180 DTSi)!

But from recent posts of Sachin, it seems the additives in engine oils can harm the moving parts of the TT. See post # 51 here. The right oil seems to be fully synthetic compressor oil.

Same logic brings me to the conclusion that engine oils should be fine for turntables too. When in the engine, they are not only expected to withstand the extreme temperatures while lubricating the components, but also they are supposed to flow away the heat without breaking down for at least 7-8K kms (for synth. oils). However, personally I will differ on the point that the additives will harm the parts of the turntables and I feel it's only a marketing gimmick to create a market for such special lubricants made for turntables. (Fell free to bash me!)

Coming to compressor oils, even I have read that they can be used for turntables. Most auto service centres charge probably about 200 bucks for 90 ml of synthetic compressor oil for putting it into the AC compressor of passenger cars, if anybody wants to know about pricing. I have a feeling that such oils will not cost more than Re. 1.0 to Rs. 1.5 per ml as service centers make money on them too.

 

[sachu888]

Lenco and Technics have different bearings.Auto oils may be ok for Technics but not so good for Lenco.Fully Synthetic Compressor oils are better.Kabusa sells original Technics oil which is similar to Compressor oil(or Electric motor oil),very thin and without any additive.

Regards,
Sachin

 

[omishra]

^^ That is because synthetic oils for vehicles are added with cleansing agents which helps to collect gunk into oil filter. Same thing (gunk) get accumulated into turntable bearing where it is generated and clogs it.

 

[Saket]

^^ That is because synthetic oils for vehicles are added with cleansing agents which helps to collect gunk into oil filter. Same thing (gunk) get accumulated into turntable bearing where it is generated and clogs it.

I get your point but isn't sludge formation in engines mainly because of the heat involved (which is not as much in turntables)? Agree there are other reasons too like metal flakes which fall out due to skimming of many moving parts. But that is true only for the engines & not for bearings, which do not have a tendency to get skimmed. Just my opinion.

Regards,
Saket

 

[omishra]

I get your point but isn't sludge formation in engines mainly because of the heat involved (which is not as much in turntables)? Agree there are other reasons too like metal flakes which fall out due to skimming of many moving parts. But that is true only for the engines & not for bearings, which do not have a tendency to get skimmed. Just my opinion.

Regards,
Saket

You have valid point. It is not clear how much time it take for synthetic oil in TT bearing to produce that impurity. Engine is very very hot and extreme condition for oil. TT bearing is not that much extreme but delicate usage which could be hampered easily by little friction.
Anybody has any idea?

 

[sachu888]

I have read threads where people ave used 3 in one oil which has additive to prevent rust.It gummed up bearing of a Thorens in just 1.5 years of use.Any kind of additive could be harmful.I have read that Lenco Olite bearings are designed to use with min oil,but it should be thin enough to reach all parts of bearing.Why take risk when options are available.

Regards,
Sachin

 

[Asit]

I wrote to Ulla Scheu enquiring about bearing oil for my Scheu TT. She advised me not to use any other oil than the oil they use. She shipped a small bottle free of any cost to a friend of mine in Wuppertal Germany. My friend got the bottle here on their yearly visit to India. Very nice gesture from Ulla Scheu, the owner of Scheu TTs. But it also illustrates that the TT manufacturers are quite sensitive about the oil. BTW, Scheu people are quite proud about their bearings. Obviously they want it properly maintained.

 

[jls001]

Turntables bearings may not be as high speed as automobiles but the stress on load bearing members can be substantial. For example, consider the combined load of a 3 kg platter plus about 400 grams of mat weight, plus weight of record, plus weight of bearing resting and rotating on a 5 mm steel ball bearing. The actual load bearing area would be close to the point of a pin. So the amount of force acting down on the ball and thrust plate will be immense. Someone more mathematically inclined than me can do the actual computation. So the lubricating oil will be working in a very stressful environment.

 

[Saket]

^That is the precise reason why we need low viscousity oil: to run into such tight clearances as oil temperature will never reach as high so as to make it thin and easy to flow. Another matter of fact is that turntable components are not in an 'oil bath' like an engine, hence it is also important for the oil to stick to surfaces to provide continuos lubrication.

 

[quad]

For Technics, it has been pointed out at various places that the original oil
is Anderol 465 ISO Grade 68

TECHNICS PRODUCTION CHANGE REPORT BY KAB
Is there a consensus these days on the most ideal bearing/motor oil? - Page 3 - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums

And it appears the real thing is available locally too.

Anderol Supplier from Mumbai, India
Supplier of Anderol 465 ISO Grade 68 from Mumbai

Technics have a long (2000 hour) lube interval.