Lucking out - light at end of audiophile tunnel

[Beast_of_burden]

The Coincident 300b are a gem, but it still shocks me that they easily power your 89dB speakers. Like the audio cliche goes "Not all watts are created equal".

The Franks have a ton of bass and get loud really quickly even with these 89db speakers. It helps that my listening room is only 11 X 14. The Klipsch had way too much bass and a very recessed midrange and highs, totally weird. I was totally not expecting such a recessed midrange and highs, if anything I was expecting an excessively midrangey presentation. The Klipsch speakers are very sensitive, these amps have a very slight hum up close and you can hear some sizzle during startup(tube rush?) through the horns. The 8 watts proved too much and the amps felt like they weren't getting out of 1st gear. But at louder volumes the RF-3s were able to do scale, the best I have heard Allman's Eat a peach. In a bigger space the RF-3s will be fine with the 300Bs. The Franks can do resolution as well but in a very different way through the RF3s, I've never heard Coleman Hawkins clicking the keys on the saxophone until now. It's a different flavour of realism.

I have struggled with the RF3s more than 15 years back although they do have their strengths depending on what you are looking for. This is an interesting combo as i always thought B&Ws had a impedance drop in the lower frequencies which were not very easy for a Tube, especially a 300B to drive !

RF-3s are a near perfect match for a low power 2A3. It's efficient in the bass not just in the mids and highs, it's with a speaker like this that you realize the 2A3 can do real bass. And it can do all the resolution you would want, but you will need a reasonably quiet amplifier.

The Franks sound fast for a 300B and are tonally very even handed with the right speaker. If anything they err on the side of caution, some people might say it's the 300B warmth. I had plenty of prejudices against the 300B to begin with. But serendipity, some luck and some patience and I am a happy camper. The Franks are unmistakably a SET first and foremost, fun amps.

 

[oldmonk]

The Franks have a ton of bass and get loud really quickly even with these 89db speakers. It helps that my listening room is only 11 X 14. The Klipsch had way too much bass and a very recessed midrange and highs, totally weird. I was totally not expecting such a recessed midrange and highs, if anything I was expecting an excessively midrangey presentation. The Klipsch speakers are very sensitive, these amps have a very slight hum up close and you can hear some sizzle during startup(tube rush?) through the horns. The 8 watts proved too much and the amps felt like they weren't getting out of 1st gear. But at louder volumes the RF-3s were able to do scale, the best I have heard Allman's Eat a peach. In a bigger space the RF-3s will be fine with the 300Bs. The Franks can do resolution as well but in a very different way through the RF3s, I've never heard Coleman Hawkins clicking the keys on the saxophone until now. It's a different flavour of realism.


RF-3s are a near perfect match for a low power 2A3. It's efficient in the bass not just in the mids and highs, it's with a speaker like this that you realize the 2A3 can do real bass. And it can do all the resolution you would want, but you will need a reasonably quiet amplifier.

The Franks sound fast for a 300B and are tonally very even handed with the right speaker. If anything they err on the side of caution, some people might say it's the 300B warmth. I had plenty of prejudices against the 300B to begin with. But serendipity, some luck and some patience and I am a happy camper. The Franks are unmistakably a SET first and foremost, fun amps.

nice !

would love a pic of 2

 

[prem]

I really can’t understand why high end amps can’t be designed without a minor hum. At that price I would expect Coincident amps to be dead silent.

 

[Beast_of_burden]

nice !

would love a pic of 2

Bit of a Work in progress. I will post a bit later.

I really can’t understand why high end amps can’t be designed without a minor hum. At that price I would expect Coincident amps to be dead silent.

The Franks are silent, I have to be within 6 inches of the tweeter to hear the faint hiss. I listen in the nearfield and cannot hear it. I was trying to make a point about the high sensitivity of the RF3s. I cannot hear it with B&W 603s. For DHT SET into 98db sensitive horn loaded tweeters that is truly stellar. The Franks have DC heating so that explains the low self noise.

 

[essrand]

Bit of a Work in progress. I will post a bit later.


The Franks are silent, I have to be within 6 inches of the tweeter to hear the faint hiss. I listen in the nearfield and cannot hear it. I was trying to make a point about the high sensitivity of the RF3s. I cannot hear it with B&W 603s. For DHT SET into 98db sensitive horn loaded tweeters that is truly stellar. The Franks have DC heating so that explains the low self noise.

I never heard a hiss with my (allegedly) 96dB sensitive speakers either.

 

[essrand]

another amusing tidbit:

I was noticing a slight lower treble emphasis that was getting Fatiguing on violins.

my audiophile Brain started thinking about power conditioning and isolation footers. After I let myself cool down a bit.

and put my Bhabhi’s formidable collection of throw pillows to good use at the first reflection point. Problem solved, but another problem, well ... that’s another story for another day.

 

[Deleted member 15865]

The more I read your thread, the more I feel that it’s not the end of tunnel... far from it. Sure you are gaining some useful insights from these experiments, but that setup doesn’t look sustainable for a living room (imagine a party happening there!). At some point the inconvenience could get overpowering.

 

[irv]

Congratulations and thank you for sharing. Great learning experience for people like me...
Cheers
Roy

 

[edjamesx]

My brother and his wife moved in with us due to Covid scenes. Suddenly the audio room was filled new sofas, pillows, carpets, tables, and stuff. And the speakers needed to move 180 degrees in other direction, 15 feet from back wall instead of 5. Suddenly my system sounded like live music. I was shocked to my core.

Glad to know it's worked for you . Samething happened to me as well some years back , My system was sounding terrible due to misplacement of the speakers , after placing it correctly it was sounding ..Wow!! Then only i realized the importance of placements.

Till today i move my speakers and check for any better sweet spots to check it's sounding better than before

 

[oldmonk]

another amusing tidbit:

I was noticing a slight lower treble emphasis that was getting Fatiguing on violins.

my audiophile Brain started thinking about power conditioning and isolation footers. After I let myself cool down a bit.

and put my Bhabhi’s formidable collection of throw pillows to good use at the first reflection point. Problem solved, but another problem, well ... that’s another story for another day.
View attachment 49035

hope you used a mirror to locate the first reflection points...

 

[essrand]

hope you used a mirror to locate the first reflection points...

the pillows cover every possible reflection point

 

[oldmonk]

the pillows cover every possible reflection point

Using a mirror to locate the first reflection points can give surprising results including not being where we imagine it to be.

It can locate reflection points on the ceiling and floor too..

Try it..if you wish..

Doesn't cost anything..

Maybe you can return the additional pillows.
.in exchange for helping locate the 1st reflection points...you will need a willing help for about 20 mins
.

 

[essrand]

Using a mirror to locate the first reflection points can give surprising results including not being where we imagine it to be.

It can locate reflection points on the ceiling and floor too..

Try it..if you wish..

Doesn't cost anything..

Maybe you can return the additional pillows.
.in exchange for helping locate the 1st reflection points...you will need a willing help for about 20 mins
.

Yes! I plan to (there was a smiley emoji in my reply that didn't make it).

Been checking out GIK as well. But things might change again very soon (moving plans happening). So not super invested on it yet. Pillows will have to do for now

 

[essrand]

The more I read your thread, the more I feel that it’s not the end of tunnel... far from it. Sure you are gaining some useful insights from these experiments, but that setup doesn’t look sustainable for a living room (imagine a party happening there!). At some point the inconvenience could get overpowering.

You are quite prescient.

Yes! it is not a sustainable setup. I will be moving in a next month or so, maybe, and hopefully will score a dedicated audio room (fingers crossed!).

Might have to get acoustic panels then instead of cheap-skating with stolen throw pillows

 

[raghupb]

You are quite prescient.

Yes! it is not a sustainable setup. I will be moving in a next month or so, maybe, and hopefully will score a dedicated audio room (fingers crossed!).

Might have to get acoustic panels then instead of cheap-skating with stolen throw pillows

I would not call it cheap-skating.
It's validating a proof of concept

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[essrand]

Using a mirror to locate the first reflection points can give surprising results including not being where we imagine it to be.

It can locate reflection points on the ceiling and floor too..

Try it..if you wish..

Doesn't cost anything..

Maybe you can return the additional pillows.
.in exchange for helping locate the 1st reflection points...you will need a willing help for about 20 mins
.

You were very right in both your predictions.

I tried the mirror for reflection points.

For the right speaker, it was 2 feet from the speakers. For the left speaker it was 5 feet!!

Also now I need only 4 pillows, the rest of the six pillows were returned to the couch

 

[oldmonk]

You were very right in both your predictions.

Had done this myself in the past so I knew...mirrors show things we don't expect sometimes...

Hope the sound has improved...

 

[essrand]

Had done this myself in the past so I knew...mirrors show things we don't expect sometimes...

Hope the sound has improved...

Yes, the harshness from the left side has been tamed. My left ear is grateful

 

[newlash09]

Glad to know that you got it all optimised in the end. As I've lately realised, there is no option but to try different speaker placement in a room. My speakers were previously placed in what I then considered the optimal position. Then last week I got the marching orders out of my daughter's room, as she wants to start sleeping alone there from now on. So I had to rejig every thing with the speakers going into the corners of the room, each 13 ft away from the other. This certainly looked disastrous on paper, but once in their new position, they are singing better than they ever did

Iam also gald I attempted some thing I would never have been crazy enough to attempt, unless under duress

 

[captainsubtext]

I hope you do end up treating your room in Goa @essrand. Just some basic room treatment goes a long way in measurable differences in system performance!