Marantz PM6003 or Norge pre-power combo ?!

[pupupuchi28]

Can you tell me why you feel the price is exorbitantly high ?

Indian manufacturer?
Quality of the components used?
features ?
Power of amp ?
Sound quality ?
After sales service rate?

TheSeeker : Please pardon for moving away from your question. But this should help you in general.

Keep the 16k figure in mind when you read this.
My argument:
If I have to pay 16k then who are the competitors. Harman Kardon, Denon 1311 (slightly above 16k), RX V371 at 5-6 k more and few panasonic AVRs.

Keeping aside the sound quality (which I have not tested), an AVR needs to be compared on features, connectivity, after sales service etc.

- The amp does not have inbuilt decoding. It accepts only analog inputs. No DAC. So you will have to rely on source (DVD/BDP/CD Player etc) to do the decoding, which means the source needs to be of good quality (at least good DACs), which means more money on all each source you attach. I could realise this only after I connected my mass market LG DVD Player to my AVR (Burr Brown DACs) through Digital Coaxial instead of analog. The difference in SQ was something one cannot ignore.
- Power is 70w rms as against 85w in most of the AVRs at this/slightly higher price point.
- No caliberation system. This is very much needed for people who do not understand the settings in 'Latin & Greek'. There are people who have the money and passion to own these HT equipments, but not the knowledge to set-up their system, 'correctly'. 'Correctly' is within quotes as there can a another thread full of arguments on what is "Correct".
- For any service one needs to contact Mumbai. Local seller will help till they can repair a small / easily available component, otherwise it needs to be transported to Mumbai. The same is applicable for Norge. :indifferent14:
- Though the active out for subwoofer is a plus point for technically sound listeners, but for a newbie, he (not He/She considering the ratio of M/F in this forum :lol needs to get into DIY mode for a passive sub. There are not too many passive ones from good brands (forget about foreign ones, even the Indian ones do not have many). Assuming you get a car sub with an enclosure (which is easily availble), but hey how good do you consider the car sub enclosures. Most of them are made of low density powder plywood, which fall apart in couple of years. Assuming we connect a active sub, then why do we pay for the active output for the sub.
- The last but not the least. Applicable specially in Indian context. After paying 16k your neighbour would ask 'Are bhai saab, yeh kaunsa brand hai, Chinese hai kya". Brand does matter and thats why its not easy to create a reliable, sustainable, popular brand

Some of the competitors are slightly higher priced, but wouldn't you want to pay another couple of grands and 'snor loud'. See, its very important to price a product 'right' in the initial stages of its introduction, otherwise things are not gonna move ahead. Create the market and then exploit it rather than 'Skim the cream' pricing....'Daewoo Cealo'.

I would be happy to know your perspective!

 

[Kittu]

Do u have to ask ? after reading this .

 

[TheSeeker]

TheSeeker : Please pardon for moving away from your question. But this should help you in general.

Keep the 16k figure in mind when you read this.
My argument:
If I have to pay 16k then who are the competitors. Harman Kardon, Denon 1311 (slightly above 16k), RX V371 at 5-6 k more and few panasonic AVRs.

Keeping aside the sound quality (which I have not tested), an AVR needs to be compared on features, connectivity, after sales service etc.

- The amp does not have inbuilt decoding. It accepts only analog inputs. No DAC. So you will have to rely on source (DVD/BDP/CD Player etc) to do the decoding, which means the source needs to be of good quality (at least good DACs), which means more money on all each source you attach. I could realise this only after I connected my mass market LG DVD Player to my AVR (Burr Brown DACs) through Digital Coaxial instead of analog. The difference in SQ was something one cannot ignore.
- Power is 70w rms as against 85w in most of the AVRs at this/slightly higher price point.
- No caliberation system. This is very much needed for people who do not understand the settings in 'Latin & Greek'. There are people who have the money and passion to own these HT equipments, but not the knowledge to set-up their system, 'correctly'. 'Correctly' is within quotes as there can a another thread full of arguments on what is "Correct".
- For any service one needs to contact Mumbai. Local seller will help till they can repair a small / easily available component, otherwise it needs to be transported to Mumbai. The same is applicable for Norge. :indifferent14:
- Though the active out for subwoofer is a plus point for technically sound listeners, but for a newbie, he (not He/She considering the ratio of M/F in this forum :lol needs to get into DIY mode for a passive sub. There are not too many passive ones from good brands (forget about foreign ones, even the Indian ones do not have many). Assuming you get a car sub with an enclosure (which is easily availble), but hey how good do you consider the car sub enclosures. Most of them are made of low density powder plywood, which fall apart in couple of years. Assuming we connect a active sub, then why do we pay for the active output for the sub.
- The last but not the least. Applicable specially in Indian context. After paying 16k your neighbour would ask 'Are bhai saab, yeh kaunsa brand hai, Chinese hai kya". Brand does matter and thats why its not easy to create a reliable, sustainable, popular brand

Some of the competitors are slightly higher priced, but wouldn't you want to pay another couple of grands and 'snor loud'. See, its very important to price a product 'right' in the initial stages of its introduction, otherwise things are not gonna move ahead. Create the market and then exploit it rather than 'Skim the cream' pricing....'Daewoo Cealo'.

I would be happy to know your perspective!

so then, considering what you've explained so well above, what would you suggest me to look for in an amp (to say objectively), or rather, which of the model(s) would you like me to consider/audition (to speak subjectively) ?! to reiterate, just to keep things untangled, my FIRST requirement is 70% of the time music through my floorstanders (rated at 6 ohms, and AFAIK, 80W/ch of feed drives them to a great output), and SECOND being, 30% of movie-watching through a 5.1 speaker system. would be glad to know your advise ! its getting a confusing mire for someone like me

 

[pupupuchi28]

so then, considering what you've explained so well above, what would you suggest me to look for in an amp (to say objectively), or rather, which of the model(s) would you like me to consider/audition (to speak subjectively) ?! to reiterate, just to keep things untangled, my FIRST requirement is 70% of the time music through my floorstanders (rated at 6 ohms, and AFAIK, 80W/ch of feed drives them to a great output), and SECOND being, 30% of movie-watching through a 5.1 speaker system. would be glad to know your advise ! its getting a confusing mire for someone like me

Get a entry level AVR if budget is a constraint, otherwise a high end AVR. I had auditioned Denon 1311 and found it to be more musical than Yamaha 371. But sound signature is something very taste specific. Onkyo and Panasonic are mostly good for movies. Can't comment on Harman Kardon AVRs. All of these have a direct out which should work for your music. Although it cannot be compared with a dedicated stereo amp. Mid range AVRs are good but the additional price you pay is mostly for the features rather than the improvement in sonic quality. Auditioning is the best approach. The forum can be refered for options and suggestions.

BTW there is a Marantz amp on group buy. Typically Marantz is known for good music more than movies. So check it out. I've not heard Marantz. I own a Yamaha 371 and completely happy with it (for music)...till I can afford a good dedicated stereo amp. For movies I'm completely in love with the 'black box'. :yahoo:

 

[BLASTO]

TheSeeker : Please pardon for moving away from your question. But this should help you in general.

Keep the 16k figure in mind when you read this.
My argument:
If I have to pay 16k then who are the competitors. Harman Kardon, Denon 1311 (slightly above 16k), RX V371 at 5-6 k more and few panasonic AVRs.

Keeping aside the sound quality (which I have not tested), an AVR needs to be compared on features, connectivity, after sales service etc.

- The amp does not have inbuilt decoding. It accepts only analog inputs. No DAC. So you will have to rely on source (DVD/BDP/CD Player etc) to do the decoding, which means the source needs to be of good quality (at least good DACs), which means more money on all each source you attach. I could realise this only after I connected my mass market LG DVD Player to my AVR (Burr Brown DACs) through Digital Coaxial instead of analog. The difference in SQ was something one cannot ignore.
- Power is 70w rms as against 85w in most of the AVRs at this/slightly higher price point.
- No caliberation system. This is very much needed for people who do not understand the settings in 'Latin & Greek'. There are people who have the money and passion to own these HT equipments, but not the knowledge to set-up their system, 'correctly'. 'Correctly' is within quotes as there can a another thread full of arguments on what is "Correct".
- For any service one needs to contact Mumbai. Local seller will help till they can repair a small / easily available component, otherwise it needs to be transported to Mumbai. The same is applicable for Norge. :indifferent14:
- Though the active out for subwoofer is a plus point for technically sound listeners, but for a newbie, he (not He/She considering the ratio of M/F in this forum :lol needs to get into DIY mode for a passive sub. There are not too many passive ones from good brands (forget about foreign ones, even the Indian ones do not have many). Assuming you get a car sub with an enclosure (which is easily availble), but hey how good do you consider the car sub enclosures. Most of them are made of low density powder plywood, which fall apart in couple of years. Assuming we connect a active sub, then why do we pay for the active output for the sub.
- The last but not the least. Applicable specially in Indian context. After paying 16k your neighbour would ask 'Are bhai saab, yeh kaunsa brand hai, Chinese hai kya". Brand does matter and thats why its not easy to create a reliable, sustainable, popular brand

Some of the competitors are slightly higher priced, but wouldn't you want to pay another couple of grands and 'snor loud'. See, its very important to price a product 'right' in the initial stages of its introduction, otherwise things are not gonna move ahead. Create the market and then exploit it rather than 'Skim the cream' pricing....'Daewoo Cealo'.

I would be happy to know your perspective!

It is not an overpriced product.
It is a product which fits no ones requirement!!

Rather than getting license for all the formats and codecs around and working with the DACs, these guys have shipped 'whatever they had'. This is not a vfm product in any price range.

These guys should stop with making 2 channel amps of higher quality for lower price. If they start with the aim of 'lets add few more channels and take the other side of the market too', then they will end up with products like this only.

But honestly, there isn't any market for 2 channels as compared to the 5.1s. It is a deadlock.

 

[pupupuchi28]

It is not an overpriced product.
It is a product which fits no ones requirement!!

But honestly, there isn't any market for 2 channels as compared to the 5.1s. It is a deadlock.

'Fits no ones requirement' the sentence couldn't have been any better!

Very true on deadlock.

 

[SSS]

Duplicate.

 

[SSS]

Can you tell me why you feel the price is exorbitantly high ?

Indian manufacturer?
Quality of the components used?
features ?
Power of amp ?
Sound quality ?
After sales service rate?

Are you trying to say the DNM products are "Made in India", with quality components etc. etc??

DNM Products are Re-branded Chinese products, most of which are made by TTOK factory in Huadu, Guangzhou, China. Website - http://www.ttokaudio.com/ (you may not find all DNM Products on the website as Mr. Denny Liu (the owner) doesn't update the website very often.

If DNM is trying to palm off their imports by calling themselves Indian Manufacturers, then it is a huge white lie!

 

[Audiodoc]

I also believe that it is difficult to compete with international brands with entry level AVRs as licensing for dd and dts is costly. Indian brands should concentrate on niche 2 channel market and that is we're I praise Norge. Being a DIYer I find their price competitive with a similar DIY effort. On opening the Norge you may not find exotic black gates, nichicons or WiMAs but good standard components and a great transformer to provide all the juice with a good amplifier design. One can do some easy modding if one wishes. By the way I find some Chinese manufactures don't take care of dd and dts licences and provide some cheap standalone decoders or decoder circuits in the 4000 buck range.

 

[Sean de Silva]

O_O ...

I've just visited Norge Audio but no listing of a new pre-power amp !! Can members share some more details as regards specifications for the same.

 

[corElement]

In my opinion you need to take advantage of quickr and olx as there are often good used deals for these sort of things on it for things double the price AT the price you can afford.

In my head, something beyond your budget for half it's value is true value for money.
But that's just me.