MC Cartridges are the best. Or are they?

[jls001]

This blogger does not think so. Read on, even if you disagree, to learn about what are some good MM cartridges:

THE ALTERNATE PARIAH | Audio16

 

[jls001]

Here's the index to the full audio16 blog: Audio16

 

[kuruvilajacob]

I am a big fan of MM. I am more comfortable listening to a Frank Sinatra or Nat King Cole on my Goldring 1006 or 1012 than any entry level MC cart. I cannot say about high priced MC carts as I have not heard any. The Mids are more prominent on MM IMHO.

 

[reubensm]

I have heard MCs and found them to be too dull and too smooth, for my liking. Hence I've always prefered to live with MMs

 

[arj]

there are good and Bad MMs and the same with MC and a lot of the sound quality depends on the Phono stage

in terms of power, MM output is High Voltage- low current and MC is Low Voltage and High Current and hence MCs need a very good Transformer to up it to a usual 3.5 to 5 mV range so it can be handled by a Phono ...the inbuilt transformer in the Phono is not usually very great .
Additionally the gain in the transformer needs to be customized for that specific cartridge
So if you get all that right the MC will have a more extended range and track better

But that said i prefer MM as well due to its Midrange focus and ease in setting up right at a lower cost.

 

[kuruvilajacob]

I also focus more on mid range and an affordable vintage AT carts like VM 8, AT 95 and the like gives much better mid range presentation than many of the newer MM carts in the market. I wonder if it's due to the quality of input material used in those days that make them sound warmer.

 

[Fantastic]

Unless cartridges are set up very carefully , they will all have inaccurate response , especially in the HF range. How many people actually measure the capacitance seen at the cartridge terminals ? This would include the tone arm capacitance, the connector capacitance, the external coaxial cable capacitance along with the capacitance of the terminating RCA plugs and sockets and the real input capacitance of the Preamp ? Looks daunting , and anyway most people just take a ball park figure .

Have too much and your HF will roll off very fast ( sound dull) , have too little and the HF will peak quite a bit ( sound bright). Some cartridges are less sensitive to some variation in capacitance than others. Newer Shure cartridges need less capacitance ( say 250 pF total ) than the old generation cartridges ( about 470 pF total ).

So comparing cartridges isn't an easy straight forward thing. MC cartridges have wider bandwidth due to the very low inductance they have. However the price you pay is very low output ( except a few high output types) and the need to use a very low noise pre-pre amp or a transformer . Either one of them also contributes to the resulting sound quality .

So it's always best to stick to how things sound in your system rather than which one is the 'ultimate best'. Probably no such thing exists , no matter how much it costs. What sounds good to 'your ear' is what's best !

It might be educative to read the well written article by Hagtech on the subject.
Hagerman Technology LLC: Cartridge Loading

Cheers.

 

[Asit]

Nice topic, Joshua. But I vaguely remember, we discussed this a few years ago. As has already been pointed out, MC carts have more bandwidth, it needs good phono stages and SUTs, and as a result, the whole thing becomes quite expensive. One needs to have a good TT and good source material to justify all that expenditure. On the other hand, at a reasonable cost, MMs (especially with a good cut, for example a nude elliptical) give a fuller mid-range, although some compromise may be made at the extremes. Some people even like the MI carts too.

For me, with a reasonable TT (Scheu Cello) that is not high-end, and with source materials which are at best medium quality (I have only a few high quality vinyls), I have stayed with an Ortofon Super OM 30.

Good to see a link to Jim Hagerman above. As I have mentioned elsewhere recently, I am getting his Cornet phono preamp. This uses two 12AX7 and a 12AU7 tube and will be shipped to me in July.

Regards.

 

[sachu888]

Most MM carts would work well with total 250PF capacitance except few older AT's,requirs less than 150PF.I am using vintage AT 15ea.It sounds very good,very natural.I have heard some very nice MMs including Shure V15,but older Ats are no match,may be due to very lower inductance.
On the other hand I found DL-103 very good.You need to provide proper amplification to get best out of it.As you all know MC's are immune to capacitance.

Regards,
Sachin

 

[murali_n]

Hi all,

There is no mention of Grado MM Carts here unfortunately. I like their sound which is very well balanced. I have used Grado Green, Blue and presently using a Red stylus, which is mid-priced one. The blue and Red are very refined having very less surface noise. Of late my preference is towards the Red stylus, which gives a very refined sound with very good mid-range. Next on my radar is a AT Cart, probably a remake of Signet model which has been reviewed very good in Audiokarma website:

[URL="http://www.lpgear.com/product/AT7V.html"]Audio-Technica AT-7V AT 7V AT7V phono cartridge[/URL]

I have heard a MC cartridge in a top of the line TT i.e SME 2000 series + Phanthom -II Tonearm, Einstein MC Cart with Phonostage coupled to ATC powered floor standers, and it was sounding like in heaven, so not justified to compare with a MM cart. However for the price the AT-95 performance is very hard to beat.

Just my Rs.2/-.

N.Murali.

 

[arj]

Most MM carts would work well with total 250PF capacitance except few older AT's,requirs less than 150PF.I am using vintage AT 15ea.It sounds very good,very natural.I have heard some very nice MMs including Shure V15,but older Ats are no match,may be due to very lower inductance.

On the other hand I found DL-103 very good.You need to provide proper amplification to get best out of it.As you all know MC's are immune to capacitance.



Regards,

Sachin

That's true. But to counterbalance the resistance loading does and that makes a pretty big difference and the sound really changes a lot as you present different loads !
Anywhere from 40 ohms to 1k and the presentation changed

 

[sachu888]

That's true. But to counterbalance the resistance loading does and that makes a pretty big difference and the sound really changes a lot as you present different loads !
Anywhere from 40 ohms to 1k and the presentation changed

Completely agree.

Regards
Sachin

 

[kuruvilajacob]

MC carts are very delicate and needs to be handled carefully. Never check continuity on MC cart using old multi meter. I have noticed that MC carts do not last as much as MM carts. That's due to he delicate wiring inside the cart. Even if it is dropped, you may lose it forever.

 

[jls001]

Unless cartridges are set up very carefully , they will all have inaccurate response , especially in the HF range. How many people actually measure the capacitance seen at the cartridge terminals ? This would include the tone arm capacitance, the connector capacitance, the external coaxial cable capacitance along with the capacitance of the terminating RCA plugs and sockets and the real input capacitance of the Preamp ? Looks daunting , and anyway most people just take a ball park figure .

Have too much and your HF will roll off very fast ( sound dull) , have too little and the HF will peak quite a bit ( sound bright). Some cartridges are less sensitive to some variation in capacitance than others. Newer Shure cartridges need less capacitance ( say 250 pF total ) than the old generation cartridges ( about 470 pF total ).

If one choose to go anal retentive about it, yes, all that is said above applies. But we must also give a nod to the reality that most of us have to live with - that our phono preamps have only a limited number of capacitance loads that we can choose from, and we are compromised to set it to the value nearest to the desired value.

One good option - provided one has the freedom to choose - is to choose a tonearm cable (actually the cable that connects the tonearm to the phono preamp) to have the least capacitance. On my current tonearms, this cable comes with the tonearm itself (fixed) and cannot be swapped out for something else (short of a major surgery). If one has removable cable, try a RG-174 RF coax cable. Or even regular RG-59/U coax cable if space is not a constraint. I have used an RG-174 pair on an SME 3009 and it works quite well. I have tried an RG-59/U pair on a Lenco L75 and the thickness of the cable doesn't work in that application :lol:

@all: going a bit OT here - what is the favourite (or favourites) MM cartridge/s of vinylphiles on the forum? If MMs are infra dig, please feel free to mention your fav MC (or MI)

I haven't owned many MMs (but would love to try out Nagaokas), and certainly not anything that can even be remotely termed as high end, so throwing open the house to you....

 

[arj]

I haven't owned many MMs (but would love to try out Nagaokas), and certainly not anything that can even be remotely termed as high end, so throwing open the house to you....

Even I have not heard enough of either MC (only DL103/103R and EMT TSD 15) or MM (Nagaoka MP30, Grado Gold, Decca Gold)

IN the end the cart and the Tonearm have to really gel..and all of the below but the Grado/EMT I have heard on a Thomas Schick arm

Of all of these i really loved the EMT and the Decca
i own the DL103R, Nagaoka MP30 and the Decca. and preference is Decca as 1, DL103 as 2nd and Nagaoka a distant 3rd

The EMT on an All EMT TT setup is really the most Amazing one i have ever heard as a system. the amount of details extracted musically is astounding. Some day would like to own one as my end state.

The Decca Gold (i have the older version) is fantastic around the midrange, detailed and dynamic but very fickle minded. but is my personal favourite for Vocals/Hindi

The DL03R is in a aluminium case and that too is fantastic across the range..especially for the price. It worked better used via the MM input via a Bobs devices SUT. It is great for Western classical and rock.



The Nagaoka is too restrained on my Tonearm..it is a medium compliance so should perform adequately but after listening to the above is a poor 2nd choice

When i get down to it and Replinth, plan to have an option for a 2nd tonearm (basic)

 

[jls001]

Thanks, arj for the feedback.

I also love the Denon DL103. It is bold, a bit brash, and perhaps a bit rolled off at the frequency extremes but it does the midrange magic so well.

My primary cart is the ZYX RS-30-02. It is more refined than the 103 and has better extension at th freq extremes.

The Decca London Super Gold is "special ocassion" cartridge. The best working cartridge I have at present.

Among the MMs, I love the Shure V15 Mark III. Shure M97xE comes close, though.

The EMT TSD15 is in a different league.

 

[arj]

You are right on the dl103. The R version is more refined and not rolled of. I believe the mids get a prominence in the basic 103 due to the rolloff while the R due to its extension appears more neutral.

The 103R is basically the proverbial " poor mans " tsd15 !

The Zyx is supposed to be very good. Never heard it though

 

[omishra]

I remember listening to shure 110 , model I don't recall. Fellow FM owns it. Its mm cart and mind blowing. It has boron cantilever, and better than shure 97xe and demon dl-110. I owned both. But very much forgiving than mc carts like 103 and 103R. Not to say 103, 103R have their own charm in sound.

 

[sachu888]

I remember listening to shure 110 , model I don't recall. Fellow FM owns it. Its mm cart and mind blowing. It has boron cantilever, and better than shure 97xe and demon dl-110. I owned both. But very much forgiving than mc carts like 103 and 103R. Not to say 103, 103R have their own charm in sound.

I think it was At 150ea cart with Beryllium cantilever not Shure iirc.

Regards
Sachin

 

[Tanoj]

Hi Friends,

I had a Denon DL160 cart ( MC ), which i paired with Sachin's MC Phono stage, the sound was smooth and less noisy/surface noice

The HF sounds like Cymbals etc would sound close to real, so overall good for HF

on Mid side it was more like playing a CD Player, it failed to reproduce the sounds of bass guitar etc, i felt it was because its dimond tip was too sharp and thin.

i heard good reviews abt denon 103 and denon 103 R, however price is high

currently planing to buy ortofon super om 10, as suggested by sachin


i have both mm and mc phono stage's which i got from sachin .... worth keeping for future use

Tanoj