Media Server / Streamer / Player

[Yaridu]

@venkatcr: What do you think of these mini PCs at least for audio?

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Alternately:
Something like this. It has an X86 (Intel Celeron J4105, is a Quad-Core 1.5GHz CPU) with an ARM Cortex-M0+ MCU (making the board Android compatible). Plus it has an RPi compatible GPIO (so maybe one can add a FiFo Recloker HAT or an I2S LVDS Transport HAT or a SDPIF HAT like Allo's DigiOne Signature).

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X86 details here:

https://files.seeedstudio.com/products/102110399/Documents/ODYSSEY-X86%20User-Manual-v1.1.pdf

ARM Cortex details here

https://files.seeedstudio.com/products/102110399/Documents/Atmel-SAMD21-datasheet.pdf

Or you could run Plex on it

You can even configure it to be a NAS using FreeNAS

Another option (at least for audio) is to install Daphile on any Mini PC (NUC). I have a pair of Asus Vivo PCs that I upgraded to 8GB and 6TB some years back. I might experiment with installing Daphile on them. The PC even has an SD card slot so I might even be able to run Daphile off that slot. Let's see. https://www.asus.com/in/Mini-PCs/VivoPC_VM40B/

For video, it will mostly be an Nvidia TV Shield Pro or an Amlogix S912X based media player.

What is this product? Which can play all video formats? Will it also play all Dolby formats wrt to surround sound? I am looking for a device which can play all 4k formats along with atleast 5.1 surround formats
@Yaridu
I just saw it. It is basically an Amlogic S912X based streamer with some secret sauce poured on top. It will do 4K, it will do 5.1 or even 7.4.1. It will play any video format at least it can do Dolby Vision. It even has DLNA. But... its availability is restricted as there are a limited number of S912X boards available.

An alternate: Get an Nvidia TV Shield Pro and install Logitech Media Server on it. Its the next best thing.


@amitk777 RPis do not have the horsepower to transcode 4k or HD to 720p. For that, you need something along the lines of an Amlogic S922X. I have been looking for these boards (Odroid N2+ is one) but they are not available in India.

RPis are problematic as @venkatcr has explained above. My initial thoughts were to use Allo's USBridge Signature + DigiOne Signature + Shanti Power supply and build a music server but there are several issues including DLNA susceptibility especially for always connected USB drives.

A NAS or a device that has room for a big (4TB+) SATA drive make more sense. Since my rack does do not have room for a traditional NAS (aka Synology DS220), my best options is a mini PC with a built-in SATA drive.

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Odroid n2+ is available on a few e-commerce sites fabtolab
Odroid fabtolab
and one more, just search for odroid n2+ india or visit hardkernel and look at their retailers/distributer for India.
Is Odroid n2+ the most powerful AM sbc out there? Either way it is lot cheaper than nvidia shield pro.
I think I will get this, still researching, what's the pros and cons b/w Coreelec and libreelec?

 

[navin advani]

Theoretically, an i3 or i5 with minimum of 8GB RAM is more than enough to play audio. Some applications preload and store one or more songs in the RAM. This will remove jitter if any, and the odd cases where you might hear a stutter when the songs tracks are being loaded.

That said, the mini PCs seem to have some limitations:

1. They seem to come installed with a IoT version of Windows 10, not regular W10. You may not get decent audio players for this version.
2. They seems to have a max HD capacity of 1TB.
3. They cannot take any full height or half height cards.

Cheers

Ok from what I read so far, audio even DSD and MQA does not require a lot of horsepower (for the matter even streaming video does not, but transcoding video does).

See the video linked below. Mike is a mad man. He is a few years younger than me and we have some common acquaintances and links so I know of him. He is absolutely high end and even he recommends using a Celeron (with 16GB of RAM).

The good thing is that there is little heat generated and a fanless PC with local SSD storage (using TrueMetal or Streamcom cases) is quite viable for audio. The big challenge for PC based audio is getting quality audio signal (with a low noise floor) from the PC. Matrix and PinkFaun are the only 2 cards recognised to do this (there are others like JCAT and TheLinearSolution but they cost just as much as Matrix or PinkFaun).

I am not too worried about building a well regulated linear power supply for a PC. For old analogue class A/AB amplifier designers, linear power supplies are pretty easy to build.

The other option is building what I call an "Allo box" using Allo's USBridge Signature (low noise USB out for DACs) and DigiOne Signature (SPDIF out via Coax and BNC). All Allo products are easily available at FabToLab. You can even order a kit using a 120GB SD, Moode or Max2Play pre-installed, and Shanti Power supply.

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There might also be the option of adding a Master Clock and IS HDMI transport ()see links below)

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I2S Input to HDMI I2S LVDS Output Module - Audiophonics

This small module will allow you to retrieve an I2S signal and then output to HDMI. The interface supports DSD to enjoy very high resolution files.

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The challenge with Raspberry products is getting them to read large (2TB+) music libraries from a USB Hard drive like the LaCie D2 Professional https://www.lacie.com/as/en/products/d2/

For Video the Nvidia Shield Pro or Android S912X / 922X (Odroid N2+) box will do fine. Both should be capable of transcoding at least 1 stream, maybe even 2 or 3, from 4K to 720p.

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Q: Can one connect an external USB drive to these devices and stream from them?

 

[navin advani]

Odroid n2+ is available on a few e-commerce sites fabtolab
Odroid fabtolab
and one more, just search for odroid n2+ india or visit hardkernel and look at their retailers/distributer for India.
Is Odroid n2+ the most powerful AM sbc out there? Either way it is lot cheaper than nvidia shield pro.
I think I will get this, still researching, what's the pros and cons b/w Coreelec and libreelec?

Thanks. This looks like it might be a viable option for video transcoding as well as streaming.

 

[rsjaurr]

Ok from what I read so far, audio even DSD and MQA does not require a lot of horsepower (for the matter even streaming video does not, but transcoding video does).

See the video linked below. Mike is a mad man. He is a few years younger than me and we have some common acquaintances and links so I know of him. He is absolutely high end and even he recommends using a Celeron (with 16GB of RAM).

The good thing is that there is little heat generated and a fanless PC with local SSD storage (using TrueMetal or Streamcom cases) is quite viable for audio. The big challenge for PC based audio is getting quality audio signal (with a low noise floor) from the PC. Matrix and PinkFaun are the only 2 cards recognised to do this (there are others like JCAT and TheLinearSolution but they cost just as much as ...

I too got inspired by the same video by Mike and built a server cum computer audio transport couple of years ago.
I used streamcom FC10 case, Asus Q87T CSM motherboard, 64GB msata for operating system,1GB SSD for storing the music, Matrix PCIe to USB card and HDPLEX 200w LPS.
OS is audiophile Linux v4 and music player is MPD.

If you can source all the stuff locally or avoid customs then this should be the best and extremely cost effective option.

 

[amitk777]

Ok from what I read so far, audio even DSD and MQA does not require a lot of horsepower (for the matter even streaming video does not, but transcoding video does).

I am not very knowledgeable on this , but I believe everything gets or should get converted (on the server) to PCM before it reaches the player. So RAM is just used for buffering. Another thing that interests me is how to get a good USB output from the player.

 

[navin advani]

I too got inspired by the same video by Mike and built a server cum computer audio transport couple of years ago.
I used streamcom FC10 case, Asus Q87T CSM motherboard, 64GB msata for operating system,1GB SSD for storing the music, Matrix PCIe to USB card and HDPLEX 200w LPS.
OS is audiophile Linux v4 and music player is MPD.

If you can source all the stuff locally or avoid customs then this should be the best and extremely cost effective option.

Awesome. Finally, I have a brain to pick.

Since I am not PC literate, I roped in a young friend based in Pune to help, so he might need to pick your brains.

I am trying to avoid imports. The StreamCom case and Matrix card are the real headaches here. What did the whole build cost?

Does this Asus Q87T motherboard come with the Celeron on the board? What is MPD? Sorry, I am not computer savvy.
I assume you used a 1TB SSD (not 1GB). I plan to use 2TB as my data exceeds 1TB.

 

[navin advani]

I am not very knowledgeable on this , but I believe everything gets or should get converted (on the server) to PCM before it reaches the player. So RAM is just used for buffering. Another thing that interests me is how to get a good USB output from the player.

I do not intend to have a server. Just one device with 16GB of RAM that can stream from a local hard disk (2TB SSD) or the internet (Tidal).

For good USB Audio you can consider these (all are relatively expensive $300-500):

Matrix Audio

matrix-digi.com

The Linear Solution - OCXO AUDIOPHILE USB 3 ADAPTER

The Linear Solution - OCXO AUDIOPHILE USB 3 ADAPTER

thelinearsolution.com

https://jcat.eu/product/usb-card-femto-audiophile-usb-audio-output/

Pink Faun USB bridge V2 - Pink Faun

The Pink Faun USB bridge V2 realizes a high-quality USB connection between the music computer and the DAC. It allows for a clean digital signal. Read here more.

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You will also need a Regulated Linear Power supply.

 

[snkadh]

Navin, I am undertaking centralizing all my media in a manner similar to what you are looking at.

I experimented quite a bit with RPi. I finally gave it up.

Reasons:

1. RPi is never meant to be used for serious media playing.
2. The bare board by itself is a toy and multiple companies are making money to make it work for various applications by adding hardware.
3. The H.265 in RPi is iffy with none of the application companies yet implementing hardware acceleration.
4. There are excellent hardware DACs available and they are the only option available for audio using an RPi.
5. You can access both networked media as well as streamlined media with PRi apps. Only issue is usually wireless connectivity. Since the RPi uses a small internal antenna, I have faced ‘not connected’ many times.
6. Using external hard disk is also a bit of a pain as the tagging large files system takes a long time.
7. The headless control many times gets connected and reconnected making you lose track of what you were playing.
8. In general I found using a PC and Foobar far far better.
9. Jumping between Linux, Android and Windows is painful. I have started seeing flash drives being spoilt needing reformatting.

What I am implementing is as follows:

1. An i5 based PC that will be used as a NAS and media server for audio. This will be connected directly to a Topping 50s for serious listening. The Topping has AptX and will also play streaming audio.
2. An i5 based PC with a high end GPU as a NAS and media server for video. This is connected to my AVR for watching UHD videos.
3. Using a networking server such as Plex to distribute media across the house. Plex offers clients for literally every device. I will be experimenting with a few servers, but I am leaning towards Plex because of its connectivity.
4. When I am feeling large hearted towards myself, I will spend the $600 for a Roon. I have seen it working, and it is very impressive.
5. Using a combination of smartphones, Ipads, tablets, and smart TVs to distribute the audio and video throughout the home.
6. Using active speakers for playing audio files.
7. Using smart TVs to play video.

Some of the assumptions:

• Get a professional to come in a set up a networking system at home where all your devices can read each other’s drives. This does not cost much.
• Spend the least amount possible on new hardware. Reuse what I already have. Would rather add a GPU than buy a Zidoo or something. One of the biggest advantages of a HTPC is the capability to play Youtube and other media that is not available on Android TVs. Some of the streaming companies have become smart enough to recognize the end device and implementing restrictions.
• You will get high quality audio only from your main system.
• Use the best budget active speakers you can lay your hand on for other rooms. Amplifier and passive speakers mean more wiring and more headaches.
• You will get 4K video from your HT system.
• In other rooms, be ready to be happy with 1080p or as best as your device can offer.

Cheers

The problem with HTPC is that they do not support Dolby Vision. But for music not sure if it support like ASIO for streaming music services.

 

[rsjaurr]

Awesome. Finally, I have a brain to pick.

Since I am not PC literate, I roped in a young friend based in Pune to help, so he might need to pick your brains.

I am trying to avoid imports. The StreamCom case and Matrix card are the real headaches here. What did the whole build cost?

Does this Asus Q87T motherboard come with the Celeron on the board? What is MPD? Sorry, I am not computer savvy.
I assume you used a 1TB SSD (not 1GB). I plan to use 2TB as my data exceeds 1TB.

You will have to import some stuff and hence pay shipping and customs duty unless I plan to sell my stuff.

Asus motherboard doesn't have a Celeron processor on board. I bought G3220T from eBay. Celeron IMO is better due to much lower TDP but honestly, I have forgotten why I chose 3220 over Celeron. So you would be picking the wrong brain.

This Asus mother was chosen because it has minimum i/o sockets on the backside and I needed two ethernet ports, no audio output, 2-4 USB outputs, and just one HDMI output for the monitor. You have to think this way to get the right components.

MPD is a highly rated music player. I am using Cantata as the front end.

Yes, I meant 1TB SSD. I am still stuck in those GB days when buying a 32GB thumb drive was a huge moment comparable to buying Marantz SA10.
I also have huge data and so next I plan to take out 2.5" internal hard drive from a 5TB external portable drive as I can not find a 5TB 2.5" internal drive. 4 TB SSDs are very expensive these days and it will take some time before they are half the price and more affordable.

 

[venkatcr]

The problem with HTPC is that they do not support Dolby Vision. But for music not sure if it support like ASIO for streaming music services.

None of my TVs support Dolby Vision, so it makes no difference. Dolby Vision is a version of HDR, and my HTPC supports HDR.

When you stream, the server will do an excellent job if it sends the media without any issues. For local playing, HTPC does support ASIO.

Cheers.

 

[navin advani]

The problem with HTPC is that they do not support Dolby Vision. But for music not sure if it support like ASIO for streaming music services.

You will have to import some stuff and hence pay shipping and customs duty unless I plan to sell my stuff.

Asus motherboard doesn't have a Celeron processor on board. I bought G3220T from eBay. Celeron IMO is better due to much lower TDP but honestly, I have forgotten why I chose 3220 over Celeron. So you would be picking the wrong brain.

This Asus mother was chosen because it has minimum i/o sockets on the backside and I needed two ethernet ports, no audio output, 2-4 USB outputs, and just one HDMI output for the monitor. You have to think this way to get the right components.

MPD is a highly rated music player. I am using Cantata as the front end.

Yes, I meant 1TB SSD. I am still stuck in those GB days when buying a 32GB thumb drive was a huge moment comparable to buying Marantz SA10.
I also have huge data and so next I plan to take out 2.5" internal hard drive from a 5TB external portable drive as I can not find a 5TB 2.5" internal drive. 4 TB SSDs are very expensive these days and it will take some time before they are half the price and more affordable.

None of my TVs support Dolby Vision, so it makes no difference. Dolby Vision is a version of HDR, and my HTPC supports HDR.

When you stream, the server will do an excellent job if it sends the media without any issues. For local playing, HTPC does support ASIO.

Cheers.

@snkadh from my very limited understanding of media players (streamers servers etc) it is best to separate the video player from the audio player. I can see 3 reasons for this.
1. Audio requires (by the very nature it is consumed) high-quality audio processing (low noise USB out, speciality DACs etc.).
2. Video might require transcoding if you are streaming 4K to a mobile device hence the processing requirements are more. These increased processing requirements mean more heat, faster processors, which all leak noise into the USB bus and distort the audio.
3. Audio benefits much more from such add-ons as a linear power supply, I2S LVDS (HDMI) connections etc. You do not need any of this for video.

A very wise young man ( @hydra ) advised me to get an Nvidia TV Pro box for video and a Cambridge, NAD, Matrix or Cocktail player for audio. The ready-made players might not boast of the latest and greatest technology. You cant choose to have an R2R (multibit) or FPGA DAC. You might not get some of the flexibility that DIY offers but they do not require any hard work. Just Plug-and-Play. It's just that I am an obstinate old fool whose mind is always stuck on DIY options. Kya karun, I am like that wonly. More than a decade ago another wise young man (famous for his orange chaddis) asked me "Navin why are you trying to build an iPod Boom Box?". I thought about it (there were so many ready-made options) and replied "Because I can". Loud laughter emanated from the other side. I guess this old man lost his sanity years ago and he can't be fixed.

@rsjaurr I graduated from college before the IBM PC was produced. I have seen single bits of memory. Not bytes. single bits of an iron core with wires wrapped around them. This is the first computer I worked on (we nicknamed her "Big Bertha"): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-8#Overview

I understand your pain. I might eventually go for the options @hydra so gently suggested. But my DIY bug won't leave. If anything, at least I will have learned something from all of you. BTW I suspect you were also once active on that "engine-vengine" wala forum.

@venkatcr Thanks. My thoughts exactly.

 

[snkadh]

Actually I am looking for a media player for movie which will support 4k and Dolby Vision codecs for Netflix and other OTT and as well as playing from NAS. I have HTPC, but none of the graphics card/ software can process Dolby Vision metadata. So I am thinking to switch to streaming media player like Zidoo Z9x.

Also for music streaming for now I am playing lossless music from NAS. But as the other streaming services are coming up with lossless music quality in future I may shift to those service along with the local NAS. In this case I am not sure if their app is capable to bypass the windows kernel processing as I do with foobar while playing from HTPC. So in this case also I may need dedicated network streamer. I am just looking for a streamer without DAC. So that I can have the capability replace or upgrade any component as required. Also seen in some video, Zidoo z9x can send audio output through USB port, but don't know if it can skip the OS processing of the bitstream.

 

[navin advani]

Actually I am looking for a media player for movie which will support 4k and Dolby Vision codecs for Netflix and other OTT and as well as playing from NAS. I have HTPC, but none of the graphics card/ software can process Dolby Vision metadata. So I am thinking to switch to streaming media player like Zidoo Z9x.

Also for music streaming for now I am playing lossless music from NAS. But as the other streaming services are coming up with lossless music quality in future I may shift to those service along with the local NAS. In this case I am not sure if their app is capable to bypass the windows kernel processing as I do with foobar while playing from HTPC. So in this case also I may need dedicated network streamer. I am just looking for a streamer without DAC. So that I can have the capability replace or upgrade any component as required. Also seen in some video, Zidoo z9x can send audio output through USB port, but don't know if it can skip the OS processing of the bitstream.

Will Nvidia Sheild TV Pro work?

I can almost guarantee that Zidoo USB will be noisy. Fine for compressed formats but not great for 192/24, DSD, MQA etc.

 

[rsjaurr]

@rsjaurr I graduated from college before the IBM PC was produced. I have seen single bits of memory. Not bytes. single bits of an iron core with wires wrapped around them. This is the first computer I worked on (we nicknamed her "Big Bertha"): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-8#Overview

I understand your pain. I might eventually go for the options @hydra so gently suggested. But my DIY bug won't leave. If anything, at least I will have learned something from all of you. BTW I suspect you were also once active on that "engine-vengine" wala forum.

@venkatcr Thanks. My thoughts exactly.

It was my DIY bug that forced me to build a server. That video by Mike and another where he went after Innous acted as oil to my DIY fire. It took me one month to install arch Linux on that server.

Once upon a time, yes I was there for my upcoming ICE and I gained a lot of knowledge regarding cars and 12V electronics.

 

[navin advani]

It was my DIY bug that forced me to build a server. That video by Mike and another where he went after Innous acted as oil to my DIY fire. It took me one month to install arch Linux on that server.

He later made another video where he apologised for saying that Innous was using an off the shelf motherboard etc.

 

[venkatcr]

Also for music streaming for now I am playing lossless music from NAS. But as the other streaming services are coming up with lossless music quality in future I may shift to those service along with the local NAS. In this case I am not sure if their app is capable to bypass the windows kernel processing as I do with foobar while playing from HTPC. So in this case also I may need dedicated network streamer. I am just looking for a streamer without DAC. So that I can have the capability replace or upgrade any component as required. Also seen in some video, Zidoo z9x can send audio output through USB port, but don't know if it can skip the OS processing of the bitstream.

I think there is some confusion here,

You have to separate the activities of the 'server' as a streamer and as a local player.

As a streamer, the server does nothing but push the media in its original form to the playing device. Thus, it takes a file, local or from the Net, and makes it available to the playing device. The playing device uses it's own DAC and player to play the file. Remember, streaming happens in the digital domain. Once the media is DACed, it becomes an analog file. What happens after that in managed by the application and not Windows.

When you use foobar, you are using the server as a media storage and playing device. It uses the hardware features and capabilities available locally including a DAC.

I have heard and read a lot about Windows kernel processing. The arguments are that Windows, by choice, deals with audio files differently. If Windows 'kernel processing' screws up your audio files, it must do the same when you transmit a spreadsheet, photo, or a video file. Obviously this does not happen. There is a commonly held fallacy that digital music is more than just 0's and 1's and thus need "special" handling. This is a concept that I found to be humourous at first, became bizzare later, and is now becoming weirdly common.

A digital file on a computer based system is a digital file. Period. Whatever may be it's contents, at the end of the day it is a file. So a document, a spreadsheet, a FLAC are all digital files that do contain zeros and ones. Period. Yes, in the audio domain, the accuracy of the music is measured by how closely you are scanning the original audio wave. The narrower the distance between once read and another, the more that data that you are creating. Mind you, this is outside the digital domain. Once the song is scanned and converted to 0's and 1's, it becomes a digital file similar to hundreds of files on you system.

Within the digital domain, files are moved from one point to another using the same transport mechanism or protocol. These mechanism and/or protocols have enough fail safe and error checking mechanism to ensure that the copy that arrives at the destination is an exact copy of the original. If that does not happen, none of your digital systems will work. Banking systems will collapse, planes will fall off the sky, and tickets you book for, say, Dubai, will send you off to Timbuktu. A digital system does not look at the file type and decide what to do. It does not, for example, look at a FLAC or a wave file, break into a smile, and add some jitter to it just for fun. It does not suddenly change the way it's SMPS works and add noise to the file. Even assuming bizzarely that it does, the receiving station can do a simple checksum and ask for the file to be resent. That is the beauty of a digital file as it can be measured accurately. Critical devices including rockets, missiles, airplanes, trains are controlled by data that move from one point to another. And these type of data needed much larger accuracy than your audio file.

As long as you are within the digital domain, movement of files, audio or otherwise, from one point to another is guaranteed safe. A USB cannot send me a 100MB spreadsheet with every cell containing the correct data (with 32 bit accuracy), and, at the same time, add noise to just an audio file. Hawkers of systems have pushed this hard into the minds of people, and are minting money with 'audio grade' devices, cable, etc.

Mind you, all I said till now is within the digital domain. Once the file moves out of the digital domain, it's responsibility is over.

As much as there tons of tons of resources making these bizzare claims, there are also tons of sane people proving multiple times that an audio source converted to digital format, and reconverted to audio format at the destination is identical to the source. Measurements have been done with Oscilloscopes and other instruments so that human errors don't creep in. All the measurements have been done using regular devices and cables. Beyond that if you want to spend 2000$ on a power cable that gives your 'bit-perfect' transmission of data, you are more than welcome.

When you use Windows as a server, it only acts as a storage and forwarder. As an OS, It does not manipulate the file in any way. The application you are using may do that. For example some network software do convert a file to what they think the receiver can play. Here, you cannot blame Windows or its kernel.

When you use a NAS, it is just a local storage available across the house. I use Windows based uPnP to watch TV shows that are stored on my HTPC. They play without any hitch. I have also tried setting up my audio PC as a local server, and it works fine. I cannot hear any difference between the server and client based application that plays the file. Remember, a number of devices post the streaming would make a difference and this includes the DAC you use, amplifier, and speakers. If these are replicated between the server and the client, it will be very difficult to hear any difference.

It is time to stop meddling with our minds and install systems that we can use and enjoy every day.

 

[snkadh]

I think there is some confusion here,

You have to separate the activities of the 'server' as a streamer and as a local player.

As a streamer, the server does nothing but push the media in its original form to the playing device. Thus, it takes a file, local or from the Net, and makes it available to the playing device. The playing device uses it's own DAC and player to play the file. Remember, streaming happens in the digital domain. Once the media is DACed, it becomes an analog file. What happens after that in managed by the application and not Windows.

When you use foobar, you are using the server as a media storage and playing device. It uses the hardware features and capabilities available locally including a DAC.

I have heard and read a lot about Windows kernel processing. The arguments are that Windows, by choice, deals with audio files differently. If Windows 'kernel processing' screws up your audio files, it must do the same when you transmit a spreadsheet, photo, or a video file. Obviously this does not happen. There is a commonly held fallacy that digital music is more than just 0's and 1's and thus need "special" handling. This is a concept that I found to be humourous at first, became bizzare later, and is now becoming weirdly common.

A digital file on a computer based system is a digital file. Period. Whatever may be it's contents, at the end of the day it is a file. So a document, a spreadsheet, a FLAC are all digital files that do contain zeros and ones. Period. Yes, in the audio domain, the accuracy of the music is measured by how closely you are scanning the original audio wave. The narrower the distance between once read and another, the more that data that you are creating. Mind you, this is outside the digital domain. Once the song is scanned and converted to 0's and 1's, it becomes a digital file similar to hundreds of files on you system.

Within the digital domain, files are moved from one point to another using the same transport mechanism or protocol. These mechanism and/or protocols have enough fail safe and error checking mechanism to ensure that the copy that arrives at the destination is an exact copy of the original. If that does not happen, none of your digital systems will work. Banking systems will collapse, planes will fall off the sky, and tickets you book for, say, Dubai, will send you off to Timbuktu. A digital system does not look at the file type and decide what to do. It does not, for example, look at a FLAC or a wave file, break into a smile, and add some jitter to it just for fun. It does not suddenly change the way it's SMPS works and add noise to the file. Even assuming bizzarely that it does, the receiving station can do a simple checksum and ask for the file to be resent. That is the beauty of a digital file as it can be measured accurately. Critical devices including rockets, missiles, airplanes, trains are controlled by data that move from one point to another. And these type of data needed much larger accuracy than your audio file.

As long as you are within the digital domain, movement of files, audio or otherwise, from one point to another is guaranteed safe. A USB cannot send me a 100MB spreadsheet with every cell containing the correct data (with 32 bit accuracy), and, at the same time, add noise to just an audio file. Hawkers of systems have pushed this hard into the minds of people, and are minting money with 'audio grade' devices, cable, etc.

Mind you, all I said till now is within the digital domain. Once the file moves out of the digital domain, it's responsibility is over.

As much as there tons of tons of resources making these bizzare claims, there are also tons of sane people proving multiple times that an audio source converted to digital format, and reconverted to audio format at the destination is identical to the source. Measurements have been done with Oscilloscopes and other instruments so that human errors don't creep in. All the measurements have been done using regular devices and cables. Beyond that if you want to spend 2000$ on a power cable that gives your 'bit-perfect' transmission of data, you are more than welcome.

When you use Windows as a server, it only acts as a storage and forwarder. As an OS, It does not manipulate the file in any way. The application you are using may do that. For example some network software do convert a file to what they think the receiver can play. Here, you cannot blame Windows or its kernel.

When you use a NAS, it is just a local storage available across the house. I use Windows based uPnP to watch TV shows that are stored on my HTPC. They play without any hitch. I have also tried setting up my audio PC as a local server, and it works fine. I cannot hear any difference between the server and client based application that plays the file. Remember, a number of devices post the streaming would make a difference and this includes the DAC you use, amplifier, and speakers. If these are replicated between the server and the client, it will be very difficult to hear any difference.

It is time to stop meddling with our minds and install systems that we can use and enjoy every day.

OK. great reading of your post. But what about playing Dolby Vision movie files from local. What do you suggest?

 

[venkatcr]

OK. great reading of your post. But what about playing Dolby Vision movie files from local. What do you suggest?

Ha Ha Ha. I really have no idea. You have to search for some device that can do that.

 

[navin advani]

We have about 3000 CDs and about 1000 DVDs and Blu Ray discs. Yeah, it occupies a whole wall in our apartment.

We need to get a Media Server / Streamer that can play all the "data" from the hard disk, as well as stream Netflix, Amazon Prime, Tidal, Spotify, etc from the internet but there are so many options that we got confused.

Coming back to the original discussion (quoted my own post above).

The Playback of video files (either from a hard disk or streaming from the internet) will be done either by an Nvidia TV Shield Pro or by an Android Amlogix S912X or S922X box. Both can read from a self-powered hard disk.

The playback of audio files is a little more convoluted because we want the box to be future proof (aka MQA/DSD compliant) and also be able to read from a local USB hard disk (LaCie D2 Professional).

The choice here is DIY or existing commercial solutions from Matix Audio, Cocktail Audio, NAD, etc.

The DIY options are

1. Allo USbridge + DigiOne + Shanti running Volumio, Moode or Max2Play +
2. Mini-ITX PC with Linear power supple and audio grade PCIe to USB card

In addition to this one would need a competent DAC like the Cambridge DacMagic+ Wolfson WM8740, Chord BiFrost Multibit, Cayin-iDAC-6 V2 ES9028Pro or iFi Audio - NEO iDSD Burr-Brown

Total cost: Rs. 100-120,000 or thereabout. Rs. 50,000 for the streamer with case and 50-70,000 for the DAC

For a little more than this cost one can buy a commercial product that's tested.

I believe the Matrix Audio Mini Pro 3 cannot read from an external hard drive. Is this correct?

Matrix Audio - Mini-i 3/Mini-i Pro 3

A DAC/AMP combo with high quality music streaming functionality.

www.matrix-digi.com

Matrix Audio - mini-i series

Matrix Audio mini-i series MQA Balanced DAC: Shop for Amps & DACs online at the best prices in India. Choose from iFi Audio, Cayin, Schiit Amps & DACs & more at Headphone Zone. Enjoy expert advice from our Headphone Gurus. Avail Free Express Shipping, Cash on Delivery and EMI.

www.headphonezone.in

Can this Cocktail Audio device read from an external hard drive?

https://www.cocktailaudio.com/home/sub01_04.php

Cocktail Audio N15 D - Hi-Res Music Streamer DAC

Hi-Fi Network Adapter, Music Storage & Player with Music Database, Streamer, USB DAC and much more... Give networking capability to your existing DAC or Amplifier High Performance System Resources Based on powerful dual core ARM Cortex A9 running at 1.0GHz UPnP(DLNA) Server/Client/Media...

theaudio.co

Is this cocktail audio device available in India?

https://www.cocktailaudio.com/home/sub01_13.php

The other option to the N25 above is this.

Matrix Audio - element M

Rhythm & melody is here

www.matrix-digi.com

Matrix Audio - element M

Buy Matrix Audio element M Music Streamer Online at Headphone Zone. Choose from brands like Chord Electronics, Schiit, Cayin & More. Talk to our headphone experts & read our featured guides.

www.headphonezone.in

Matrix Audio Element M - HiRes Streamer DAC

Discontinued: Replaced by element M2 w.e.f. May 2022 The Matrix Audio element M is a Roon Ready Streamer DAC that delivers HiRes Audio in all it's glory to your audio system. With AirPlay, Spotify Connect, Tidal, Qobuz the internal ESS Sabre DAC makes audiophile streaming a reality. A high...

theaudio.co

I can't find another device under 1.5L that can stream MQA and read from an external hard disk. Anyone?

 

[hydra]

I believe the Matrix Audio Mini Pro 3 cannot read from an external hard drive. Is this correct?

Yes, this is correct. It will also NOT stream via DLNA/UPnP.

To use this device as a streamer, you will ideally need to use Roon. Or stream via AirPlay (limited to CD quality) or Bluetooth (LDAC/AptX HD).

Or you will need a computer hooked up to it via USB. Ideally it should be running Audirvana for streaming from Tidal/Qobuz and from local storage.

You could also hook up an iPad to it via USB (with a lightning to USB adapter) and stream Tidal (with MQA). I understand that you could control the iPad remotely with another Apple device via screen sharing. (I’ve not tried this personally as the only iDevice I use is the iPad).

I tried all these with mine, and ended up using Roon. I set up a i5 8th Gen NUC as a Roon ROCK server and called it a day. I use a 6 year old iPad as the remote. IMHO, this is also the best sounding solution, not to mention the easiest to use solution once set up. The only downside is the yearly Roon subscription, but I suppose about 800.00 INR a month is a reasonable price to pay for the overall benefits and advantages that it brings with it. I was very sceptical about Roon, but just one day into the trial, I was sold!

EDIT: To add, if your budget is 1.5L for the music streaming solution, a Matrix mini i Pro 3 (80k), a Roon ROCK (29k for a NUC8i5BEH, 250GB m.2 SSD, 8GB RAM) and a yearly Roon Subscription ($199.88) will fit well, and leave you plenty of cash (about 31k or so) to spare. You could use any phone or tablet you have at home as the remote.