My Garrard 401 and L75 builds, a learning experience on all fronts!!

[reubensm]

Hi all,

Finally we are near the holidays and I will take this opportunity to get started on my detailed posts on the experience. I have got a lot of queries on cost of the plinth builds, some enquiring why I am not disclosing.

Please, I am open to disclosure but there has been a couple of heart breaking incidents with my almost in new condition Garrard 401 and its brand new tonearm which is going to cost me more and that's going to add up to the plinth build. I shall post the total once I am finished with that tonight. It has taken me a lot on the emotional front, to maintain my composure and I am yet to get over these.

I am going to dismantle the decks and run some checks. I casually looked under them last night and saw some long screws protruding out of the bottom (not cut to spec). "Shabby work" was the first thought that came to mind. Also noticed that the Garrard does not sit accurately on the plinth and is slanting towards one side. I had pointed this out to Mr. Kuruvila and apparently his carpenter had fixed it but my eyes have noticed it again.

From what is to follow, you may find me too much of a perfectionist but why not, such builds are once in a life time builds and are critical for me (and the spend was huge, so expectations are even higher).

I switched on the Garrard 401 last night and discovered that the motor was making some humming noises and when the deck is turned off, the platter squeals to a hault which suggests that the breaking mechanism is not properly aligned. Need to check these. Hope all the parts, have been put back :sad: I am only hoping that the motor was not opened. I am scared to turn on the Lenco, God knows what surprise awaits me.

I could have done a fantastic job on this myself but unfortunately I did not have the patience to wait till I got some free time.

Keep watching this space for more. I will be out of station from tomorrow evening, for a couple of days, and shall continue after that.

Moderators, I am going to be very candid about my opinions without being defamatory or derogatory. Please feel free to advise me if you think my posts are crossing the line.

 

[anilva]

That's not good news at all. I hope everything turns out OK.

 

[arj]

sorry to hear this. Can you check for rumble while the platter is turning and motor is off ? You can use the screwdriver tweak ..pointed end on plinth and wooden end in your ear.. to localise the sound

 

[prem]

Hi reubensm

Hope all works out well. I am a little unclear with your post. Was the Garrard 401 fine before it went for a plinth? Or was it the first time you were switching it on?

 

[anilva]

Reuben,

It must be tough going through this, but please remember that you sought help from a highly respected member and I believe, help is given in good faith. May be the plinth did not work out for you, but you can get it fixed or redo it.

These things inadvertently do happen when we seek help from others. I can narrate my own incident of a sub-woofer cabinet going all wrong, done by a friend's carpenter. My friend's integrity cannot be questioned on this count. It was pure help he rendered. I am re-doing it again, myself. There is nothing better than self-help.

Cheers.

 

[arj]

Agree with anilvas post completely.

My question is also related to what prem has asked..the sound you are hearing should habe nothing to do with the plinth. The motor hum can be due to the power. The platter is something you should check. Is it due to the bearing or the brake? either way it would be quite independent of the plinth .

 

[GeorgeO]

Have to agree with Anil on this one as well. If help was sought and received in good faith, and things didnt turn out 100% the way it was expected, then it is part and parcel of life!

 

[prem]

Agree with Anilva completely.

 

[reubensm]

Dear all, yes, I perfectly agree. Its all about good faith and trust (my decks where with Mr. Kuruvila for over 5 months after all). Also in good faith, I have paid the full asking price for the plinths despite being terribly dis-satisfied with the build. Nevertheless, these post are not to vent frustration but could give an insight to others who are planning similar builds, either by themselves or with the help of others.

Sorry for the delayed posts, was not around. At work today as well but thought I'll post some info on the condition of the decks.

 

[reubensm]

Got the decks taken out of the plinths and put them through a thorough examination (brother's help taken here):

Will focus on the decks first and then talk about the plinths themselves.

Garrard 401

The Deck was making a loudish humming noise (rumble) when in the plinth. Also the platter was grinding to a squealing halt each time it was switched off. Also the start knob did not have much of a springy response which indicated that something was rubbing the plinth layers below.

After coming out of the plinth, noticed that one of the motor transit screws was bolted fully while the other was open fully. Guess the gentleman who serviced the deck forgot to tighten both (this usually happens when one multitasks). Loosened both completely and ran the deck. Great news, the rumble disappeared. Now to the brake. The brake lever had been bent very slightly to increase rubbing pressure. Very carefully reversed the bend and restored the brake. It does not squeal now. Thankfully.

Now, noticed that 2 of the original mount screws were missing. A set of replacement Garrard 401 mount screws costs about $25-$30 with shipping to India. The 2 remaining mount screws had screw extensions welded to them while remaining 2 were local replacements with extensions welded (luckily 1 found one of these in the tonearm box which Mr. Kuruvila handed to me when I collected the plinths). I was quite upset when i came to know of the welding. I was expecting extensions what FM Record Player had got done for his deck. This was like a Rs.50 alternative. Now, I'll have to get the original Garrard mounting screws and a new set of extensions professionally done (budget impact here).

Now to the shattering part. When the deck was with me, it was kept wrapped in couple of bedsheets and kept in safe storage. I was shocked to note that the deck was left overnight at the carpenter's. Now, I would have driven all the way to Kottayam for the fitting and returned but would have never left the deck with the carpenter. I am sure, nobody on this forum would have done this. The result, my Garrard 401 faceplate has a bright long scratch on it. Bought a replacement new faceplate on ebay, wednesday night, for $40+shipping (again impact on the budget). Also, Mr. Kuruvila's mechanic had super-glued the old faceplate back in position, untidily leaving a superglue stain on it. Very unprofessional. Now you know why I was not mentioning the total spend. Also when I handed the deck to Mr. Kuruvila, I had a couple of platter dampening rings on the platter. These were not there when I received the deck (had not noticed at the time of delivery as the platter was packed separately). Mr. Kuruvila offered to locate these, courier or hand deliver them. If I don't get those rings back, that another $25 to $30 spend.

I had given Mr. Kuruvila, 2 brand new (still in packing) Jelco SA370H champagne gold tonearms for the 2 turntables. The one fitted to the Garrard plinth was again left at the carpenter's overnight. The carpenter scratched up the tonearm base and pivot pillar, lost one of the original mounting screws and used some ill-fitting tool to open the other, thus damaging the head. Replacement screw kit for the Jelco purchased last night for $6 online but could not find a replacement base. Need to get the scratched base repainted if I cannot find a replacement.

Now to the Lenco. This build did not go well from the start. My instructions I believe were not fully understood, nor followed. The result was something which I had not intended but lets come to that later. First, noticed that the tonearm base of the Lenco was floating around and not secured to the deck chassis. Carefully opened up and removed the lenco deck from the plinth. To my surprise and shock, noticed that the tonearm was floating about on the chassis. The upper part of the tonearm base had been super-glued to the underside of the Lenco chassis and the super glued joint had given way. This is nothing sort of audiophile blasphemy. Firstly I wanted the tonearm fitted to the plinth and not to the Lenco top-plate but since the instructions were not understood, the deck came out really pathetic looking. As a fix Mr. Kuruvila had mounted the tonearm in the place of the stock tonearm. Imagine using super glue for this? Shocking!! As you would expect, this tonearm base is completely ruined and has to be replaced or repainted.

When I loosened the Lenco's srews below the plinth, noticed that the Lenco chassis was wobbling over the plinth and not a perfect it. Another shock. The carpenter had forcefully screwed down the plinth over the wobble (which was caused by a screw knocking the plinth. We located this screw and it happened to be the screw which held down the original lenco tag-board for the tonearm wiring. The top-place of the lenco, thankfully did not bend and is in great shape.

Mr. Kuruvila had mentioned that the Lenco motor was not switching off and was running continuously. One forum member suggested that the switch may have been removed completely. This was not the case. The switch was very much there. However the alignment was not correct and as a result the switch was not turning off. This was rectified in about 30 seconds. Mr. Kuruvila told me to run the deck for some time for the capacitor to charge (I assume his technician advised this) and then it would probably work. Incorrect diagnosis. The Lenco brake was not engaging. A simple re-alignment was required and its now perfect. The technician missed this.

Now to some good news. I had shipped my Lenco L75 stock tonearm off to a good friend in Canada, who helped re-build it with some professional mods. I have decided to restore it back to the Lenco chassis for ceramic or mono use. Lets see how that comes out. So to Lenco rig will have 2 tonearms now.

With the new Garrard faceplate on the way, and both the Garrard and Lenco properly calibrated, things are looking up. Now have to deal with the tonearm cosmetic damage.

Now to the plinths:

The actual woodwork done is splendid. A very good job done to neatly cut those individual layers to spec. Noticed that the plinth layers have been glued and nailed together. Not very happy about the nailing part. These were supposed to be glued and pressed together but I guess nails do the job. A nice finish veneer has been used but the carpenter's inexperience with veneer shows up. The cut and glue job is very poorly done. There are glue stains on the lenco veneer. The edges are pealing off (Mr. Kuruvilla asked me to keep the edges pressed down using a damp cloth). The veneer work needs to be re-done. Its looking quite shabby in bright light.

The dust covers for both the Garrard and Lenco are done superbly. The one brilliant spot in this build. I could not have asked for more. Fantastic work!!

Mr. Murthy's spikes are superb. Looks like there were imported, so well done. Thanks to Mr. Murthy and above all, to my good friend FM Record Player for organizing these. A lot of FMs have been very supportive and helpful during these builds. So much of valuable advise. The advise I regret not listening to was to do this project by myself.

Now, here's the spend on the build (so far):

Plinth build cost & dustcover charges Mr. Kuruvila - Rs. 19,500/-
Mr. Murthy's bill for the spikes - Rs. 4000/-
Replacement faceplate for the Garrard - Rs. 2872/-
Replacement screw kit for 1 Jelco tonearm - Rs. 479/-
Tonearm base (replacement or painting) not included, replacement spares cost are as per credit card spend, Garrard mounting screw replacements not included, Garrard platter dampening ring costs not included.
Commute costs for plinth collection - Rs.1200/-

As of today - Total cost Rs. 28,051/- for 2 plinths.

 

[reubensm]

Hi reubensm

Hope all works out well. I am a little unclear with your post. Was the Garrard 401 fine before it went for a plinth? Or was it the first time you were switching it on?

Yes, both decks were perfectly silent. It was the transit screws. One was bolted on while one was completely disengaged. Simple issue, which was easily resolved. Honestly, I should have checked these before turning the deck on.

 

[reubensm]

That's not good news at all. I hope everything turns out OK.

Yes Anil, was quite disappointing but we'll turn it around. Thankfully, we can get the decks back in great nick despite the odyssey and they will be up and running soon. The spend on this initiative however, has been of tragic proportions and I now have a SP25 in the pipeline.

 

[reubensm]

sorry to hear this. Can you check for rumble while the platter is turning and motor is off ? You can use the screwdriver tweak ..pointed end on plinth and wooden end in your ear.. to localise the sound

Thanks Arjun, resolved with a simple fix. It was the transit screws.

 

[reubensm]

Reuben,

It must be tough going through this, but please remember that you sought help from a highly respected member and I believe, help is given in good faith. May be the plinth did not work out for you, but you can get it fixed or redo it.

These things inadvertently do happen when we seek help from others. I can narrate my own incident of a sub-woofer cabinet going all wrong, done by a friend's carpenter. My friend's integrity cannot be questioned on this count. It was pure help he rendered. I am re-doing it again, myself. There is nothing better than self-help.

Cheers.

Yes indeed, that's exactly what we will do. These things happen in life. Honestly I was only worried about the decks and tonearms, never bothered about the plinths themselves. It is with great pains that I managed to source a near mint (almost brand new) 401, again a mint L75 and 2 brand new Jelcos, so I am a bit over-board when it comes to their welfare

 

[reubensm]

Have to agree with Anil on this one as well. If help was sought and received in good faith, and things didnt turn out 100% the way it was expected, then it is part and parcel of life!

Yes indeed Mr. George, it must stay that way. On another note, just to clarify, I have not questioned the differences in understanding on the plinth design or the way it came out. I had given 2 decks and tonearms collectively valued at over a lakh and a half, in perfectly good faith. I would have expected Mr. Kuruvila to take better care of these. I would attribute the damage to pure carelessness.

Sometime ago, my good friend FM JK_Chaos lent me a few brand new records. I had them double wrapped and stored carefully just because they were not mine. I was more careful with them, when compared to any of my own records. When JK visited after that, he was surprised to find them all wrapped up. That's the school of thought which I come from

 

[reubensm]

The actual woodwork done is splendid. A very good job done to neatly cut those individual layers to spec

Was referring to the cutouts for the deck. Having said this, there were some miscalculations done with respect to the size of the Garrard plinth. I had requested for both to be the same size but somehow the Garrard plinth turned out slightly smaller than the Lenco one. This means that the tonearm has to be kept at an angle to avoid scraping the inside of the dust cover. The difference between the 2 plinths is around a couple of inches on the length and breadth.

Sometime back, during a visit to Mr. Kuruvila's home, I had quietly made 2 observations (1) his plinth builds very either quite generous on space around the deck or built almost the same size of the deck, (2) his tonearm positioning was a little different from what others on the forum suggest. I provided large (to scale) print outs of the plinth cut to spec. Also provided the actual decks and tonearms and hence using these print outs one could easily ensure that there was adequate space around the deck and tonearm on the plinth.

Add Rs.350 for the print outs and courier charges of Rs.175 (tonearm included) to the build, missed these (Total: Rs.28,526/-).

 

[reubensm]

Now for some pleasant viewing, here are a few pics of the SP25, again an almost mint condition piece from Canada:

 

[reubensm]

Consulted with the carpenter yesterday evening. The Garrard 401 plinth requires a bit of work as there is some friction between the plinth and the start/stop switch levers. Simple mods required, a few minutes work. The veneer is not put on professionally and has to be re-glued at the edges. Estimated cost of labour from the carpenter, Rs.250/-. He will also paint the underside of the plinth, black (matte finish). Correcting the angle of the deck requires some massive work. When I pointed out this to Mr. Kuruvila, the carpenter just attempted to slant-screw the deck to the plinth but the effective slant has not been corrected. The issue is that the plinth layers have "not" been cut to perfect spec. The front of the plinth is 2 mm smaller than the rear end of the plinth. The carpenter has used the right side of the plinth as reference and hence, the difference with the left side. The carpenter asked for Rs.1000/- to correct this as all the individual layers have to be corrected. Decided not to go ahead with this rework exercise.

Here are some pics:

1) the slant of the chassis depicted using a referential:

front end (left side from top):

rear end (left side from top):

The base of the plinth, to be painted black (carpenter offered to do this for free provided I gave him the paint):

view of the long screws below the plinth, these will be replaced with proper machined extension bolts for the original Garrard 401 chassis mounting screws:

view of the Garrard's tonearm and base, sad to see the scratching on a brand new piece and a gash on the base (one mounting screw was lost and the other's head ground out). Who would leave such a piece at a carpenter's workshop, mounted to the plinth which is a work in progress?:

Veneer work (looks like a first time job, which it actually is). My carpenter said that the technique used here is the cut-piece technique, where as a wrap-around technique could have been used for better cosmetic viewing:

what lies beneath (the tonearm), also notice the lines on the edges of the veneer, my carpenter says the veneer was pealing off all along and was constantly rubbed down to keep it in place, resulting in these lines

and the deck, some un-professional chipping has been attempted to accommodate engaging levers (with the plinth), I would have to recheck this as the start switch level still engages with the plinth:

Original Garrard mounting screws disfigured with welded extensions:

El-cheapo screws replacing the misplaced original Garrard mounts:

Superglue stain on the faceplate, dirty fingers :

Faceplate scratch, utter carelessness:

The deck, looking clean and neat, almost new old stock (now you know why I am so particular about it):

 

[malvai]

Sad... And am totally speechless at the extreme callousness..

 

[anilva]

Reuben,

I don't know what purpose you are achieving by posting all the gory details and pictures, other than to tell the World, how bad and careless a fellow member is. I think that purpose is served now. Also we all now know that you need to spend/spent Rs. 30000/- for all this. Understood.

Can you please close this thread now and stop further vilification of a fellow member. My reading of this matter is that you believed you could outsource this entire plinth business to someone who is an amateur and not a pro, without dirtying your own hand. In the process you got yourself into a bind. Please retrieve the situation and do what is required (which you seem to be doing now and most of them simple fixes) instead of endless posts on what went wrong. I don't know if anyone is planning to go to the FM for plinths or that he is volunteering to do plinths for others. There ends the matter.

Cheers.