My seven year plan and my last lunge at it

[Yelamanchili manohar]

This is a common misconception.
Passive crossovers are huge bottlenecks. They not only add colour, but also bog down your amplification. In essence, an active DSP has more chances of getting to the "original" than a passive network.

@Yelamanchili manohar you very well knew that this thread was going to be a discussion on Passive/Active.

Very true indeed... Active vs passive has been a raging debate in my mind for a few years now. So the usual suspicions about the detrimental effects of dsp are valid until experimented with. But from what I've read so far, iam fairly convinced that going active with dsp will be the next jump in sound quality for me, rather than buying a better passive speaker. Hence this journey and departure from the usual path of upgrades.

 

[Vivek Batra]

Hi all

As some might know, I had hatched a plan way back in 2017 for my new DIY speakers instead of constantly upgrading my commercial speakers. . So the idea was to get my own speakers built, with the best drivers we could source. And in the end.. They turned out to be spectacular but. not cheap . At that time, they were heavy with external crossovers built inside external wooden boxes with farady cages for each channel. And they sounded absolutely stonking..

Now given this new reference, it would have been impossible within my budget constraints to again buy a new commercial speaker to improve upon the DIY speakers I already have , as there are already top notch drivers in place. Besides, there is a sense of scale, ease and dynamics that big drivers in big cabinets provide, that smaller drivers in more expensive hightech cabinets fail to provide to my ears. And the reason I went DIY was to design them to be able to go active without much faff.

So why this post after 6 years. Why not before .

Because it would have been another boring post of would be builds and ambitions. And iam only posting today, because iam finally close. And considering the time span of 7 years I gave myself due to financial restrictions, iam still running late at the moment. I still don't think I could buy a Deqx Pro 8 HD with my savings this year.

Going 4 way active is not easy. I had to save for years to buy the amps, 3 pairs of tube mono blocks ( I only need two, one is a backup should a tube go somewhere). Then tons of decent interconnects, power cables and speaker cables to wire everything up. Then a high power class D amp for the upper bass. And a pro crown amp for the lower bass. The total wattage per side will be upwards of proper 2000 Watts per channel in a small 11x15 ft room. With 2x15 inch bass drivers for lower bass, one 10 inch for upper bass per speaker. . This necessitated that the room be equipped to handle such bass power . So ended up treating my room in 2020. These speakers will never get to sound as good as they probably could given the restriction the room size poses. But that's a compromise I have to live with for the rest of my life I guess.

Now comes the big question..... To Deqx or not ( not the behringer deqx2492 ) . Deqx is the best there is in 2 channel audio, very similar to the trinnov altitudes of home theatre. I came really close to buying a esoteric N-05XD, then a dcs bartok and finally the ultimate esoteric N-01XD itself. But the question was always how much of the dac's benefits would get across a passive crossover network and ultimately to the drivers. So I decided to abstain, and got a digital transport instead. So there goes my journey and plan so far.

Progress on this post will be slow, as Deqx processors are really expensive. And the newest gen 4 are still not releaseed yet.. But will keep updating as I chug along

You owe all of us a nice picture of your DIY speakers

Thanks vivek ji. Everyone calls me manu or mano. So ji is not required .

I've only used the lumin for a few hours so far. And my main amps are not here at the moment. So iam using my back up amp. Initial impressions are of a noticeably cleaner sound and more details. But it is varying depending on the tracks. On some well recorded tracks the added clarity is very good. So it seems to be a noticeable improvement over the azur 851N I was using previously. But the system has not been played for more than 5 months, so everything needs to break in, including the lumin.

The biggest difference I've noticed so far is on 'georgio by moroder' from the album - random access memories from daft punk. In the beginning of the track, georgio is taking with a lot of voices in the back ground. Iam very familiar with this track, but this is the first time that I could follow the background voices so clearly.

Nice, so from your description it seems you are using a Lumin streamer and not a transport??. How is the Lumin app btw, many good streamers lack in good useable apps, how is the connectivty when it comes to Spotfy Connect or Tidal Connect.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

You owe all of us a nice picture of your DIY speakers

Sorry for my delayed reply vivek, was on a family holiday without network in kashmir. Just got back .

I've already posted pics of my room and system and speakers numerous times. I've bored all forum members to death with my pics, so will explore a way to get the pics to your goodselves.

Nice, so from your description it seems you are using a Lumin streamer and not a transport??. How is the Lumin app btw, many good streamers lack in good useable apps, how is the connectivty when it comes to Spotfy Connect or Tidal Connect.

The lumin app is positively primitive. My grand father could code better .

And the lumin is just a digital transport, without a dac. And sadly I don't have a credit card, so I can't use tidal etc.... So my listening impressions are from my local library from my modest NAS. I would love to try tidal as well as qobuz if someone is willing to be generous enough to accommodate me

Just as a latest development, Deqx wants me to beta test their pre-8 HD active, which iam so stuck on. But I have no clue what beta testing means . Iam a dumb sailor with absolutely no idea of how the IT world works. So can someone kindly educate me please

 

[arj]

just means that you are one of those lucky people they want to use to test the device in a real environment rather than their labs

it comes with a responsibility of evaluating the device under your own real scenarios in terms of its features as well as how it works eg with other products, room etc

 

[Vivek Batra]

Sorry for my delayed reply vivek, was on a family holiday without network in kashmir. Just got back .

I've already posted pics of my room and system and speakers numerous times. I've bored all forum members to death with my pics, so will explore a way to get the pics to your goodselves.


The lumin app is positively primitive. My grand father could code better .

And the lumin is just a digital transport, without a dac. And sadly I don't have a credit card, so I can't use tidal etc.... So my listening impressions are from my local library from my modest NAS. I would love to try tidal as well as qobuz if someone is willing to be generous enough to accommodate me

Just as a latest development, Deqx wants me to beta test their pre-8 HD active, which iam so stuck on. But I have no clue what beta testing means . Iam a dumb sailor with absolutely no idea of how the IT world works. So can someone kindly educate me please

No problem at all, hope you had a nice time there.

I've already posted pics of my room and system and speakers numerous times. I've bored all forum members to death with my pics, so will explore a way to get the pics to your goodselves.

I would love to try tidal as well as qobuz if someone is willing to be generous enough to accommodate me

Will keep it in mind, and let you know if something comes up

 

[Kannan]

Sorry for my delayed reply vivek, was on a family holiday without network in kashmir. Just got back .

I've already posted pics of my room and system and speakers numerous times. I've bored all forum members to death with my pics, so will explore a way to get the pics to your goodselves.


The lumin app is positively primitive. My grand father could code better .

And the lumin is just a digital transport, without a dac. And sadly I don't have a credit card, so I can't use tidal etc.... So my listening impressions are from my local library from my modest NAS. I would love to try tidal as well as qobuz if someone is willing to be generous enough to accommodate me

Just as a latest development, Deqx wants me to beta test their pre-8 HD active, which iam so stuck on. But I have no clue what beta testing means . Iam a dumb sailor with absolutely no idea of how the IT world works. So can someone kindly educate me please

Hook up with @Vineethkumar01 . You won't find a better geek

 

[Vineethkumar01]

@Kannan:
I think the question about beta testing has been answered well by @arj. Though I don't know what beta testing implies im the specific context of DeQX DSPs. O only know that they are so expensive that i will never be able to afford one
However i would ne happy to help with any technical queries regarding the DSP cross-over itself

 

[Hari Iyer]

Greatest advantage of active over passive is applying precise crossover points and introducing delays to the Frequency which a passive XO can't do. Delay in passive is only by physical alignment of the drivers voice coil centers. Even with that you can go horribly wrong with the phase angle/ shifts provided by passive components like capacitors and inductors. It's not very easy to calculate leads and lags caused by capacitors and inductors and convert them to distance. Only advantage with passive is less requirement of amplifiers and processing original signal as presented to it's input.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Greatest advantage of active over passive is applying precise crossover points and introducing delays to the Frequency which a passive XO can't do. Delay in passive is only by physical alignment of the drivers voice coil centers. Even with that you can go horribly wrong with the phase angle/ shifts provided by passive components like capacitors and inductors. It's not very easy to calculate leads and lags caused by capacitors and inductors and convert them to distance. Only advantage with passive is less requirement of amplifiers and processing original signal as presented to it's input.

Very true sir ...

As per Deqx, they claim that no two drivers have the exact same frequency response too. They also claim that they can correct the signal in the digital realm to have the exact same frequency and time response from both pairs of drivers. And their room correction is available on top of these functions.

Their claims could be false too ... But I have this irresistible itch to try and find out for myself.

Besides, iam still in love with your speakers .. And iam keen on improving them further by going active, as I haven't heard anything better that has tempted me for a change

@Kannan:
I think the question about beta testing has been answered well by @arj. Though I don't know what beta testing implies im the specific context of DeQX DSPs. O only know that they are so expensive that i will never be able to afford one
However i would ne happy to help with any technical queries regarding the DSP cross-over itself

Thanks a ton @Vineethkumar01 @Kannan and @arj ...

I did give the offer of beta testing some serious consideration. But had to politely decline in the end, as I don't think I will be able to muster the time for critical setup and listening to give them any valuable feedback.

Besides, I don't know how long iam home. I always travel for long periods of time at very short notice.

Though the offer of landing a Deqx pre8 HD at distributor level pricing sounded enticing. I felt it wouldn't be fair to vanish after receiving one at that discounted price.

So I've mailed back Deqx with my above restrictions. And they haven't replied back yet. It's already been 2 days, so my hopes are currently low . But if they are still okay with my limitations, then I have a childhood friend in Melbourne waiting to swipe his card on my behalf . Will keep all your goodselves posted with the progress .

And @Vineethkumar01 ..thanks a ton for your offer of help. I will definitely need it . I've played around with a few dsp's in my room. I've used a dspeaker antimode 2.0 for just the bass with great results. But it was a completely automated correction system that just worked everytime. So I didn't learn anything in the process .. And I also used a minidsp shd briefly, but never had the time to dial it in properly. Both are currently with friends . And I should also have somewhere a dayton 4 channel dsp that kannan sir kindly arranged for me a few years back. So the conclusion being that iam as dumb as mentioned in my signature , and will need all the help I can get once the Deqx arrives

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Latest update - so my TAD 1000 mono block amps have been serviced and should be here in the next few days. I was running KT 88 tubes before, each outputting 100 tube Watts in ultra linear mode, and they comprehensively beat my monstrous krell ksa100 class A amp. So with the recent upgrade of caps and resistors and biasing pots, iam hoping they will sound even better. But ive decided to change the tubes from KT88 to EL34 for more of that mid range magic, as I plan on running them in triode mode. Though I have some entry level tubes on them that I could find on amazon. Iam hoping I can find some better ones soon without breaking the bank . And the current line magnetic LM 503 PA SET mono blocks with the 845 tubes will shift duties to the all important tweeters now.

Edit : I forgot to add that the TAD amps iam referring to are not from the venerable japanese brand. I could never afford those . These belong to an American company called *tube audio design * run by a gentleman called Mr. Paul gryzneck. He has sadly passed away. But he designed the amps and got them built in China. But to avoid counterfeit of hiis laboured designs, he got them delivered back from China to him, where he used to do his secret tweaks. And these amps despite being unexhorbitantly priced sound absolutely great. I've hunted them for 3 years and finally bought in the USA in 2018. And the previous owner loved them so much, that he came along with his son to deliver the amps to me personally in Newyork

 

[sayan00]

Besides, I don't know how long iam home. I always travel for long periods of time at very short notice.

If only landlubbers understood the allure of vitamin sea
Jokes apart, very interesting read.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

If only landlubbers understood the allure of vitamin sea
Jokes apart, very interesting read.

Haha... Thanks sir

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Next update sooner than I expected

i finally found the final amps that would do justice to the twin 15 inch bass drivers per side in our very own classifieds. Should be receiving the AudioGD master 2H mono blocks soon. I really rate amps that can double the power with every halving of the impedence. So these basically go from 250W at 8 ohms all the way to 1000 watts at 2 ohms. I previously had a krell that went lower to 1000 watts at 1 ohms. And that really showed in its bass slam and grip, as big impedence drops are usually in the bass region of the speakers, especially when approaching the free air resonating frequency of the bass drivers. So having available power with dropping impedence is usually a sign of good bass performance in my books.

I had previously bought a crown xti4002 for the low bass duties. But it will be going on sale now.

But these amps have a huge power draw as can be expected, Iam reading things like 700 watts etc. So that will necessitate new electrical wiring for the room now. So newer challenges everyday. And iam just hoping that it is ultimately worth the hassle and the expense in the end. Will keep updating as I chug along