Naming and Shaming Sellers who are cheats

[G401fan]

Please note that we have clearly mentioned this at https://www.hifivision.com/threads/for-sale-by-owners-rules-and-guidelines.7112/ and https://www.hifivision.com/help/class-rules/

Also as the for sale by members forum is turning to be an irritant. I have no claims about shutting it down.

The rules about proxy sales are often violated by members, and such sales are not shut down by the Moderators despite the clause in the Rules.

In my case, the seller clearly indicated that the items belonged to a friend of his. He later tried to wriggle out of responsibility by passing the blame on to his friend.

As for certain members’ requests for ‘details’ to establish ‘both sides of the story’, let me clarify that the seller did not dispute my observation that the item was ‘dead on arrival’. In fact, he immediately agreed to make a refund, but that has just not happened, over six months of excuses and posponements. I have now given up hope of ever getting my money back.

Without a nod from the Moderators, the seller’s name will have to remain undisclosed, for now at least. This trade is based on trust, and since trust cannot be guaranteed, it would be in the interest of all for the Moderators to introduce a seller feedback rating based on a numerical or 5-star system.

 

[mpw]

G401fan

Even that is not a guarantee.

Why should the HFV site take responsibility ?

EBay etc are dedicated e-commerce sites

HFV is not.

Regards

 

[G401fan]

mpw,

A seller grading will only serve as a guideline for potential buyers.

It has nothing to do with HFV taking responsibility, something it most certainly cannot do.

As someone who has bought and sold a bit on this site, I’d find it useful to separate out the charlatans, who are thankfully in a minority. Most sellers, I’m sure, are honourable chaps.

Regards,

 

[sidvee]

The free buy/sell section of the forum is only setup as a convenience for the members. This forum afaik was not set up with an express purpose of sales/purchase, so as such the forum does not have any obligation for any issues. So the burden is upon the 2 parties to resolve their issues amongst themselves. I would recommend users of the section to satisfy themselves prior to the sale that everything is genuine and upfront. I as a seller am now taking a short video of the component reproducing music, as well as documenting the condition of the item when it is packed with photos and sending all this to the buyer. I also invite the buyer to come and audition/pick up the item from my residence and if not caution the buyer that I cannot and will not be responsible for issues caused during shipping. If I am the buyer, I make sure I ask for clear pictures/video of said components and also verify if original packing, manual, accessories etc. are available for safe passage in case of shipping. I think following these procedures will make it safer and more friendly.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[arj]

The rules about proxy sales are often violated by members, and such sales are not shut down by the Moderators despite the clause in the Rules.

In my case, the seller clearly indicated that the items belonged to a friend of his. He later tried to wriggle out of responsibility by passing the blame on to his friend.

As for certain members’ requests for ‘details’ to establish ‘both sides of the story’, let me clarify that the seller did not dispute my observation that the item was ‘dead on arrival’. In fact, he immediately agreed to make a refund, but that has just not happened, over six months of excuses and posponements. I have now given up hope of ever getting my money back.

Without a nod from the Moderators, the seller’s name will have to remain undisclosed, for now at least. This trade is based on trust, and since trust cannot be guaranteed, it would be in the interest of all for the Moderators to introduce a seller feedback rating based on a numerical or 5-star system.

i do not see any reason why a sellers name cannot be put in the forum as a discussion esspecially if it is 6 months..and it will give an option for the seller also to give his/her view.
Maybe the moderators can confirm the above as an option ?

 

[sunilkm]

This is not a good experience. I remember there was another such incident reported by a buyer. I would be very suspicious when someone new to the forum post a for sale items from no where with so much of expensive audio gear. I think it will be better to check about the seller through some known member from same city or some other way.

 

[dinesh1201]

To the Moderators:

I've had a recent bad experience with the 'For Sale' section where the seller sold me an item that was defective and 'dead on arrival'. Misrepresentation of provenance, and working condition was clearly intentional. I immediately asked for a refund, but the seller has been fobbing me off over a period of six months, with one excuse after another, even though the sum involved is relatively low. The same FM has since been putting up numerous other items for sale, many of which are still current, presumably awaiting a customer. Clearly scamming other trusting buyers. Since this forum offers no protection to buyers (unlike eBay), nor a rating system for sellers, I seem to have no recourse. Before naming the seller on this forum ( to alert potential buyers ), I would like to know what are the forum rules for such situations.

If there is indeed no protection for buyers, then I would request that every 'For Sale' thread be highlighted with some suitable banner saying that Hifivision holds no liability, and that buyers run their own risk, effectively caveat emptor.

That's sad and can be harmful for the trust we have on each other. You should disclose the FM's name here.

 

[Hiten]

Sorry to hear that. Give him one last chance otherwise post the name. If majority wants keep "for sale" section open.am also OK with that section closed as the same forum has separate "hifiads" classified section.
regards.

 

[elangoas]

Also as the for sale by members forum is turning to be an irritant. I have no claims about shutting it down.

Please don't do that.. We are already starved for good equipment at affordable prices.. Used gear in the only way one can get to it..

Please add a disclaimer text in "Red", on each sale thread at the time of mods approving the thread clearly mentioning the risk involved..So that the buyer is well aware..

 

[moktan]

Please don't do that.. We are already starved for good equipment at affordable prices.. Used gear in the only way one can get to it..

.

Amen to that ...

 

[sanjivnayak]

Hifiads section is free for all and therefore much riskier than hfv classified.
I too agree on this point that buyer has to be careful enough while making a deal. But when a buyer is unable to preview the product and still buying it, he should always go by the reputation of the seller. Where there is a new item put for sale, anybody may find out who is the seller and from the description of items one can decipher if something is not being disclosed properly.
Since this forum is about sharing and helping out its members whether new or old, the circulation of equipments amongst the members should continue as all of us are not affluent enough to buy items new.
A word of caution for those try to belittle the sanctity of the forum whether in form of unsavoury posting or unfair means adopting to put others in trouble must be there.

 

[jayants]

Hi!!

Its very sad to know the experience our fellow FM had.

Money is HARD EARNED for all and one should respect that. We all should realize and respect that its through networking/feedback that a seller is able to generate more customers and revenue.And so if he/she is looking for short terms benefits it will aggravate his reputation and revenue the most.

From my experience I can share that as a practice Vinyls which I have sold to fellow FMs here and outside,I have tried to be as much honest and clean in my dealings possible BUT wherever if any such case has happened where the buyer is not satisfied with the product as being graded,just NO QUESTIONS ASKED..............take back the item and either refund or replace. It builds mutual trust and helps in the long run as well as we all r human beings and we r prone to mistakes/errors.

At the same time I would request my fellow FM friend who has gone through this ordeal, if possible to message and inform few of his FM friends here and they in turn can forward to their FM friends so that most of us come to know about these sellers who r trying to be dishonest. It will only help all of us I guess . My 2 cents!!

Regards,
Jayant

 

[Bluesky]

If there is any glaring defect which the seller hid it during the transaction, you have to put it in the forum. Describe the incident (try to be indifferent and give the facts, no personal stuff) and name the fellow. You might think about being polite/ decent and try to avoid the name, but think about how it will help the other fms.

Of course it allows the seller to give his rebuttal if he thinks you are wrong. May be you both can settle on where the miscommunication happened.
Waiting.

 

[efernand1]

Hi

It is sad that this incident has happened...I recall an experience last year when I was supposedly to pick up a pre owned Marantz UD7007 player and the seller was not willing to share proof of purchase etc...so I backed off...unfortunately another FM picked it up and then posted his experience about the deal.....there were some issues with the player which were not reported / stated by the seller.

So as stated by other FMs....it is much much better to do dealings in person....if not from the same location, please request a FM from that city if he could go and check it on your behalf.

Hifiads, quikr and olx have clear disclaimers around buying and selling.....one should follow it.....

as far as HFV classifieds is concerned, please see the FM profile and tenure, reputation points etc. This helps a lot ....after all it is credibility.

When auditioning / checking before purchase, make sure you demo at least for 15 mins and not a mere 2-3 mins.....electronics never act weird or defective in a couple of mins....minimum 15 minutes is required.....if more time then better.....check all features / functions...

All the best....be cautious and safe!

 

[MaSh]

Also as the for sale by members forum is turning to be an irritant. I have no claims about shutting it down.

No it's not turning to be that. Shutting it down would be a hasty decision. I guess the forum should only be a platform, with the buyers and sellers resolving any and every differences on their own.

MaSh

 

[antoniodias]

I am sorry to say. If it is no t going to be a fair platform, please shut this FOR SALE Column. As MPW says it is true, I feel more than half the members will quit
Best regards and practical thinking.

 

[Deleted member 38504]

What's a fair platform? Please understand one thing. The mods and owner of this forum are doing all of us a huge favour by running the site free of cost and taking out time from their hectic schedules to keep the site running.

Majority of us have benefited from the forum through knowledge shared AND the "for sale and wanted"forums.

When one buys or sells on the forum it's an agreement between the buyer and seller only. It's got nothing to do with the forum. All grievances if any should be resolved between the two parties exchanging the items.

Dear Eddie, it's been a day and a half. You didn't need any permission to start the thread, why do you need permission to name the person in question from the mods?

Let the seller respond to what you have to say. If he doesn't respond it can be taken as an admission of his guilt. Till then, there will be no resolution.

But one bad seller cannot and should not set the tone for all sellers on the forum.

 

[rajiv_kulkarni]

IMHO "shutting down" the for sale section may not be a solution to this issue. We are all on this forum to exchange ideas which is the primary intention. Along with that if there is an opportunity to buy/sell used Hi-Fi Equipments to fellow FM who appreciate and value the product then that is an added advantage. I don't think anyone comes to this forum with the sole intention of selling equipments or cheating someone. If these are sporadic incidents then I guess ban that member from the forum or prevent them from posting further adds in the "For Sale" section.

 

[accord]

i also came across with this kind of deal with a HFVM and faced a total loss of more then 20K. And respected Fm is so honest that he just denied to make reverse payment after receiving his sold unit back and told me that it was all my fault to make his unit dead.

 

[tuff]

Name him or forget this ever happened. There is no point in beating a dead horse.