Narrowing on a subwoofer

[nitinbose]

Hi Friends,

I'm planning to upgrade my subwoofer. I'm currently using the Onkyo skw-550 sub. This is 230W rated.

I've auditioned the Polk Audio subwoofer; DSW 500 and PSW 125 and then Klipsch sub-10.

All the above three seems quite okay interms of sound, however its the specifications that i cannot understand. Different subs mention the subs differently.

Experts, please help me decide.

If I'm to use two subs, I would require a "Y" splitter cable; my question is, wont this affect the input available to the sub?

Thanks,

Nitin.

 

[manu4panjab]

first of all thanks cranky for calling me basshead hyeah:

and bro for you don't buy any polk or klipsch sub becuae basically they are best for speakers not subwoofer and coz i have two polk psw 125 subs its not that i not like them they play very well but i don't get that feeling in which i not only heard it but also feel it

so i myself looking for velodyne subs and entry level strated from 26ooo as someone suggested in my which velodyne thread

and don't worry about using y spliteer it don't hurt your sub and you have high spl when playing two subs especially mid punch

and i also like to buy 2 velodyne cht series 15 inch sub :yahoo:

 

[venkatcr]

Most of us make some simple errors when auditioning subs. One is power. For a normal room, anything more than 150 to 200 watts is an overkill. Second, and more important, is the sound that comes out of the sub.

As I have mentioned many times, to use a sub for music in a 2 channel set up is completely meaningless. No music is recorded as 2.1. So what are you sending to the LFE if the amp has one? What you are doing is taking out some low frequencies, enhancing them, amplifying them separately and delivering them. A simple tabla or drum is made to sound large and boomy and a singer's voices is unnaturally enhanced downwards.

What one should do is go to a music shop, listen for a bit to a tabla, mridangam, or drums without any mike or amplification. Carefully listen to the sound and remember how it hits your chest and you ears. A sub that can come closest to this sound is the one you should buy irrespective of the specs.

Third is the speed of the driver and electronics of the sub. The driver should stop in milliseconds and not echo or reverberate the sound. That again is artificial.

Fourth please remember, there is hardly any instrument or singer that can go down below 40 Hz, excepting maybe a Cello.

What about movies? A sub that sounds good for music and can go down to 20/25 Hz would sound good for movies.

Lastly, however good a sub may be, it will sound good only if a minimal amount of room acoustics is done. I very clearly remember I took my Hsu VTF2 MK3 to a room and it sounded horrible and boomy. I was shocked. When I brought it back to a room with good room acoustics, the sub went back to being 'liquidy'. Sharp and extremely fast transients. So what was the issue? Simple - the reflections in the other room.

Cheers

 

[nitinbose]

Wow Venkat.. Those were the same observations made by myself. I love to stay at the temple, before the evening poojas, simply listening to the devotional music being player (by instruments and not electronically).

I've noticed huge differences and i dont think any system in this world can reach even 80% of a live performance.

I shall also try and audit velodyne subs as manu4panjab suggested.

Between, the funny part with showrooms is that most of them create listening rooms on the first floor, with false floors and ceiling, which gives you an "earth-shaking" effect. This confuses buyers into think he/she is listening to something great

Thanks,

Nitin.

 

[cmsajith]

Hi Venkat, if you dont mind, can you post some pictures of the room acoustics that you have done in your listening / movie room. I am also planning to do some possible acoustics in my room.

 

[cmsajith]

first of all thanks cranky for calling me basshead hyeah:

and bro for you don't buy any polk or klipsch sub becuae basically they are best for speakers not subwoofer and coz i have two polk psw 125 subs its not that i not like them they play very well but i don't get that feeling in which i not only heard it but also feel it

so i myself looking for velodyne subs and entry level strated from 26ooo as someone suggested in my which velodyne thread

and don't worry about using y spliteer it don't hurt your sub and you have high spl when playing two subs especially mid punch

and i also like to buy 2 velodyne cht series 15 inch sub :yahoo:

Can you could do an audition of the Velodyne entry level 12" sub and the polk DSW PRO 600 12"? I donno where can i find Velodyne in bangalore. Both are in the same price range and also heard good things about PRO 600.

 

[madhurshankar]

Moideen of Grand Cinema in chennai can help you getting velodyne. Once he showed some velo pamplets. He is not a direct dealer though he will manage to arrange you through his links.

Mr Mohideen S,Mr Ajmal R

Grand Cinema
New No: 118 Old No: 333 1st Floor Selma Svp Arcade,
Near Trustpuram Bus Stop,
Arcot Road, Kodambakkam,
Chennai - 600024

+(91)-(44)-43587575, 43587565

+(91)-9841036657, 9884415122

+(91)-(44)-43587565

 

[madhurshankar]

My advice is you shall try out paradigm. Paradigm lineup reveals decent performance and they can go lower. Velo will be quite unnatural to hear even in an anechoic room and may not be a best bang for your buck. If don't mind spending then also try HSU or SVS they come with 30 day trial the downside is that they are not available in showrooms:sad: they do direct sales no mediator so hassle free and best bang for buck.

 

[doors666]

Can you could do an audition of the Velodyne entry level 12" sub and the polk DSW PRO 600 12"? I donno where can i find Velodyne in bangalore. Both are in the same price range and also heard good things about PRO 600.

ARN systems sells velodynes in bangalore. I remember a few months ago he had CHT-10, not sure about 12. prices quoted was around 40-42k, and cht-12 was quoted around 55k or something.

 

[anm]

whom to contact for hsu and svs subs?
Do we have replacement drivers available for these?

 

[madhurshankar]

SVS - Erik K - [email protected]
HSU - Pete Hsu - [email protected]

you shall view the subwoofer models under these websites.

HSU - HSU Research
SVS - SVSound - Home

craigsub is a very well regarded member on avsforum he used to give standard SW ratings. try it out. Jus google "craigsub rating" to view his ratings. you shall see these subs on top. For 55k you'll get a sub which will perform 4 times ahead of velo. I can give u an useful suggestion of buying cylinder subwoofers they perform as well as box sub. They weigh less so shipping charge for india will be less. try it out. All the best.

 

[madhurshankar]

sry i didn't cover your second question. You will have warranty coverage of 7 years on drivers beleive me their drivers are solid. Though if u have any problem you should send the screwed up driver or amp and inturn they'll ship a new driver or amp for you. Shipping driver or amp won't cost you much. Think twice choose wise. Good luck.:yahoo:

 

[venkatcr]

As I had mentioned in another post, Hsu is going to be represented in India very soon. So a bit of patience is advisable for Hsu fans.

Cheers

 

[anm]

madhur, 55k in India delivered? Do you know their local contacts?

venkat - I think they will cost 2-3 times what they cost in India?
regards

As I had mentioned in another post, Hsu is going to be represented in India very soon. So a bit of patience is advisable for Hsu fans.

Cheers

 

[doors666]

SVS - Erik K - [email protected]
HSU - Pete Hsu - [email protected]

you shall view the subwoofer models under these websites.

HSU - HSU Research
SVS - SVSound - Home

craigsub is a very well regarded member on avsforum he used to give standard SW ratings. try it out. Jus google "craigsub rating" to view his ratings. you shall see these subs on top. For 55k you'll get a sub which will perform 4 times ahead of velo. I can give u an useful suggestion of buying cylinder subwoofers they perform as well as box sub. They weigh less so shipping charge for india will be less. try it out. All the best.

Just saw the craig's sub list. There is axiom audio ep-500 at 90 points. I want its younger brother ep-350 with 12" woofer and 350 watts amps. Their prices include shipping. for ep-350, its about 850$ delivered to india, which is about 90$ more than delivery in US, this comes to about 41K. Anyone has experience with axiom audio subs? What about customs, how much do they charge officially, and how does the bribing concept work for intl deliveries.

 

[madhurshankar]

madhur, 55k in India delivered? Do you know their local contacts?

venkat - I think they will cost 2-3 times what they cost in India?
regards

Ya i had my friend who received the sub and shipped them via USPS i got my STF-2 shipped for 10k + 3K duties and sub price 15k totally 28k. If you quote less product value in customs form then your custom duty will decrease. You have only one limitation to send the package thru USPS i.e. package should be 70lbs or below.

 

[madhurshankar]

Just saw the craig's sub list. There is axiom audio ep-500 at 90 points. I want its younger brother ep-350 with 12" woofer and 350 watts amps. Their prices include shipping. for ep-350, its about 850$ delivered to india, which is about 90$ more than delivery in US, this comes to about 41K. Anyone has experience with axiom audio subs? What about customs, how much do they charge officially, and how does the bribing concept work for intl deliveries.

I haven't heard them but i was once craze about them. They had many positive reviews and they won the test with highly regarded SVS PB-12 Ultra. They have special DSP chip which eliminates distortion. For good recordings they are very good. They'll be very natural and will punish poor recordings. So i considered that they may not sound well for indian music as well as movies and dropped them from list. And the price will come near to 60k. 41k + 16k Custom duties(40%). I don't know how duties differ from USPS and FedEx USPS only charges 20% duty. You shall also consider av123 Mfw-15 they are real baaaaaang for buck. They cost only 500$ and comparable with 1600$ pb-13 ultra and Mfw-15 stands below 5th in craig sub's list you shall also consider Dual Mfw-15. As the sub price is less duty will also obviously less. I calculated shipping charge from UPS calculator and they came near to 38k so for 58k you'll get 58k which is a steal they use 15" woofer and their performance is tremendous. Look for some reviews you'll realise.

 

[doors666]

I haven't heard them but i was once craze about them. They had many positive reviews and they won the test with highly regarded SVS PB-12 Ultra. They have special DSP chip which eliminates distortion. For good recordings they are very good. They'll be very natural and will punish poor recordings. So i considered that they may not sound well for indian music as well as movies and dropped them from list. And the price will come near to 60k. 41k + 16k Custom duties(40%). I don't know how duties differ from USPS and FedEx USPS only charges 20% duty. You shall also consider av123 Mfw-15 they are real baaaaaang for buck. They cost only 500$ and comparable with 1600$ pb-13 ultra and Mfw-15 stands below 5th in craig sub's list you shall also consider Dual Mfw-15. As the sub price is less duty will also obviously less. I calculated shipping charge from UPS calculator and they came near to 38k so for 58k you'll get 58k which is a steal they use 15" woofer and their performance is tremendous. Look for some reviews you'll realise.

Checked out some reviews on mfw-15, seems like an awesome sub, but plagued with amp problems. Lots of people are having issues with the amp. the company is in the process of designing a new amp and will take some time for this to stabilize, so its out of my list.

 

[AMITNOIDA]

Don't worry about specs.

Get yourself some tracks with fast and melodic bass playing. I use "Come Together", "Take Five", "Shangri-La", and "Speak to me" as bass tests.

The sub should just lay a foundation for the music. At no time must it be prominent. The trick with very low bass is, you should not hear it, you should feel it. A good sub will reproduce the heartbeats on "Speak to me" with total control, and no fattening or overhang. This is one of the toughest tests for a sub, provided you know what a heartbeat sounds like - a stethoscope is a wise investment. It is extremely quick, and as it speeds up the beats get quicker and quicker.

Don't go for the sub which has the best paper specs. It is very easy to get a lemon, and tuning subs is extremely tough. Most people who use subs keep them turned up way too high, and placed right in a corner. This is not always the best solution. The best sub I've ever heard was a B&W (I don't remember which), though it sounded terrible in the showroom once the owner had set it up and calibrated it, the speed of the sub was fantastic, though it didn't go particularly low (I think the in-room response was about 28Hz, middling for a 12" sub with a 1000W power amp IIRC) it was very good for music. Movie performance was average, just about. I'm not much of a sub person, but maybe you'll get some response form manu, he's the official basshead around here...

Using a splitter is fine. The subs should have enough reserve gain to see you through.

Dear Cranky

 

[AMITNOIDA]

Sorry Cranky for my earlier post. It was a keyboard mess.
I want to know about the music tracks which were suggested by you to test the subwoofer.
Is the 'Come together' by Beatles, 'Take five' by Dave Brubeck and 'Shangri La' by Mark Knopfler?

Please clarify. I am not much familiar with music albums, but just started a month ago collecting Audio CDs of my choice from Rhythmhouse, Amazon etc.

Thanks
Amit