Need help in setting up home theater!!

[Gurudristi]

Dear Subhash,
The reply you were referring was actually meant for Satya...

I am not very familar with the Onkyo 875 series....Is it a 7.1 THX certified receiver?

I remeber that Pandam satellite speakers used to come with a passive sub.

Are these the same ones you are using as rear surround satellite. The Pandam were quite good and reliable. Unless they have started to sound bad or you've got tired of looking at them. I dont think you would need to change.

I think they perform quite ok as rear or even as a 2.1 speakers as they were meant to.
If placed well, changing those speaker may not add anything further to your rear surround listeninig. Unless of course, your system is 7.1, then you could add two more speakers as surround back in the rear.

What Say?

 

[subhash]

Hi Subhash,

Choosing dipole vs. monopole is a matter of preference and taste, and most importantly whether your HT room has a side wall or not and budgetary constraints (dipoles are more exp. than bookshelves).

If your primary usage will be HT, then go for dipoles as they offer a diffused sound. If you ever are planning to listen to multi-channel music (5.1 or greater) then go for bookshelves for surrounds as sounds need to be localised for music.

By the way, dipoles are very old technology that is making a comeback. It predates Dolby Digital (in fact it came out at the time of Dolby Pro Logic). DD does not recommend dipoles while THX recommends it as side surrounds.

On last count, there are only 322 THX certified DVDs as compared to thousands that are not THX certified.

Find a THX Certified DVD Title

So bottom line is its a matter of listening taste, room setup and personal choice.

hi, thanks for the update, the sorrounds will primarily be for HT, as i prefer music in pure 2 channel ,ok as u suggest, will go in for dipole sourrounds ,one more suggestion i need ---i hav zeroed in on the jamo C80 sourrounds which is the package of my existing set up ,but the catch is ,it is priced at abt 55k ,is it advisable to spend tht much on sourrounds? or cud i go in for lesser priced klipsch reference (25k) wharfadale QLS(12k) ,,,,,,any suggestions??

 

[subhash]

Dear Subhash,
The reply you were referring was actually meant for Satya...

I am not very familar with the Onkyo 875 series....Is it a 7.1 THX certified receiver?

I remeber that Pandam satellite speakers used to come with a passive sub.

Are these the same ones you are using as rear surround satellite. The Pandam were quite good and reliable. Unless they have started to sound bad or you've got tired of looking at them. I dont think you would need to change.

I think they perform quite ok as rear or even as a 2.1 speakers as they were meant to.
If placed well, changing those speaker may not add anything further to your rear surround listeninig. Unless of course, your system is 7.1, then you could add two more speakers as surround back in the rear.

What Say?

hi, anyway the 875 onkyo is THX certified ultra 2 , 7.1, its not the sat/sub, i use the pandam bookshelfs for sourrounds, (stand mounted ) they r well built with a triangular body and no doubt do thier job effectively,, but the sound from the sourrounds may not be as enveloping as a dipole wud do ??( i guess) one more thing is, it is really old ,got it way bak in 1997 ---anyway thanks a lot ,what do you use for sorrounds with the dennon?

 

[Gurudristi]

Dear Subhash,

I have not seen the triangular Pandams. if the sound is not bad, you can still use them.

Anyway, I use the Denon AVR 3805, 7.1 reciever in my HT.

For the rear surrounds I use B&W -inwall CCM636(Surround Left and right), The angle of the tweeter can be adjusted to provide certain amount of localisation. For the surround back, I use a pair of Wharfedale DFS.

While the B&W provided good localisation as well as enveloping sound for the rear left and right the DFS provides an overall good difused sound for the surround back.

Set up your system for 7.1 ( actually 6.1), since still DTS and Dolby Digital still matrixes the sound to 6 channels., then you hear the difference against a 5.1 set up...
and of course, do get your rears a little higher up, at least 2~3feet higher that your listening height rather than just stand mounting them.

Hope the above explanation help....
ENJOY

 

[subhash]

Dear Subhash,

I have not seen the triangular Pandams. if the sound is not bad, you can still use them.

Anyway, I use the Denon AVR 3805, 7.1 reciever in my HT.

For the rear surrounds I use B&W -inwall CCM636(Surround Left and right), The angle of the tweeter can be adjusted to provide certain amount of localisation. For the surround back, I use a pair of Wharfedale DFS.

While the B&W provided good localisation as well as enveloping sound for the rear left and right the DFS provides an overall good difused sound for the surround back.

Set up your system for 7.1 ( actually 6.1), since still DTS and Dolby Digital still matrixes the sound to 6 channels., then you hear the difference against a 5.1 set up...
and of course, do get your rears a little higher up, at least 2~3feet higher that your listening height rather than just stand mounting them.

Hope the above explanation help....
ENJOY

thanks again guru, wharfadale DFS was another option suggested to me for the L/R sourrounds,will audition on monday,i jst heard the jamo C80 sourrounds at decibels ,man they sound terrific! but for the price (55k)!!!!! the DFS hav been quoted at 11.5k ,how do you rate them ? i will chk them out tommorow and let u know ,,,as for my stands they r quiet high aprox 2 ft above seating level,,,and to hook up 2 more rear spkrs i have restricted space behind ...any way thanks a lot

 

[Gurudristi]

Dear Subhash,
A certain amount of localisation is always preferred in the rear channels surrounds.

The DFS are good value for money speakers. I donot know as to how they will perform only as main surrounds in 5.1 setup. I am using them as Surround back and they are excellent.

Mind you,Wharfedale speakers were not at these prices earlier, they were much higher in prices. Of late, they have shifted a lot of their production to China like a lot of other Japanese manufacturers and have been able to cut cost but have kept the same relaibility and quality.

When you have a 7.1 set up, then the left and right surround could be set up a higher and a little ahead of the seating area and the surround back can go right behind the seating area. A little bit of trial and error is required before you finalise their fixed place.

Jamo are certainly more expensive @55K I would not spend that kind of money for my surrounds.
Best of Luck...keep us updated

 

[marsilians]

hi, thanks for the update, the sorrounds will primarily be for HT, as i prefer music in pure 2 channel ,ok as u suggest, will go in for dipole sourrounds ,one more suggestion i need ---i hav zeroed in on the jamo C80 sourrounds which is the package of my existing set up ,but the catch is ,it is priced at abt 55k ,is it advisable to spend tht much on sourrounds? or cud i go in for lesser priced klipsch reference (25k) wharfadale QLS(12k) ,,,,,,any suggestions??

The surrounds need not be timbre matched with the fronts meaning you can go in for a totally differnt brand unlike L/R/C

So, based on teh specs the Klipsch seems to be a good one for the price performance. Also remember, roughly around 15% of the sound in HT is sent to the surrounds specifically. So not worth spending tons of money on it.

 

[venkatcr]

I do not know as to how they will perform only as main surrounds in 5.1 setup. I am using them as Surround back and they are excellent.

Guru if you are using the dipoles as Back/Rear speakers in a 5.1 set up, that is really strange. Dipoles are never used for Rear / Back surround tasks. They are used only for Surround Task on the side as in a 5.1 system. Only small bookshelves or satellites are used for Rear/Back surround tasks.

Remember most of the media we get, whether Hollywood, Tollywood, Bollywood or any Wood, are all coded for 5.1. There is very little data going to the Rear/Back speakers. Given this situation, I wonder how you have wired your system. It may make more sense to switch the dipoles to the Surround position on the side of the audience.

I hope I have read your posting right and understood it correctly.

Cheers

 

[Gurudristi]

Dear Venkatcr,

Thanks for your feedback.

However, the Wharfedale DFS are bipolar- specifically engineered to hang on the rear wall. This should not be confused with dipole designs( which are more usually placed parallel to the listening position on the side wall) The bipolar principle produces both ambient and direct sound (for accurate stereo rear effects), whereas dipole is weighted much more towards just ambience.

I have been using it in my hometheatre for the last three year and have no regrets whatsoever...they are excellent speakers.

I am using Denon AVR 3805, which is a 7.1 receiver. The AVR's DSP also produces the 6th channel signal when the source is 5.1, otherwise, when DVDs which are matrixed for 6.1 (signals likes Dolby Digital EX, DTS surround-ES Discreet 6.1 and Matrix 6.1), the Receiver decodes the signal for the surround back automatically.

I hope I am able to explain as to how I've wired my system and that the reason of my recommending the 7.1 with Wharfedales DFS on the rear walls.

Cheers!

 

[marsilians]

Sounded like he was doing surrounds based on post #21

 

[Gurudristi]

Dear Marsilians,

I did not get you

 

[marsilians]

Dear Marsilians,

I did not get you

My understanding was that Subhash was trying to setup surround speakers not rear ones. His quote was

the sorrounds will primarily be for HT, as i prefer music in pure 2 channel ,ok as u suggest, will go in for dipole sourrounds ,one more suggestion i need ...

Also like Venkat has suggested, there are miniscule sources that play off on a 7.1 setup. No watter what the "matrix" option does, I don't see much value in a 7.1 setup.

 

[Gurudristi]

Dear marsilians,

I agree with you and venkat to a certain extend.

Though very little content goes to the rear surrounds, it does help to set up to 7.1 : of course, if your AVR allows and the HT room is on a slightly bigger size. Some people believe it a little bit of an overkill.

What do we say for systems which are 10.2 or even 22.2... for auditoriums or even for big-size home theatres....

One reason is that you are future-proofing your set-up. and the second, which is important, is the sound(ambient and direct sound) is better staged all across the room, sound effects are better enveloped(I hope I am using the right words).

I am enjoying my system, it was a 5.1, and I upgraded it to 7.1 and now I can comfortable say that the sound effect are more uniform across the room.

Cheers!

 

[marsilians]

What do we say for systems which are 10.2 or even 22.2... for auditoriums or even for big-size home theatres....

One reason is that you are future-proofing your set-up. and the second, which is important, is the sound(ambient and direct sound) is better staged all across the room, sound effects are better enveloped(I hope I am using the right words).

At the end of the day its what sounds please you. Its been so hard to get a separation through 6.1 or 7.1, that manufacturers synthesize this heavily through "matrix" surround mode.

I used to have a 7.1 system and that only times I used all channels was with 7 channel stereo - meaning that all channels played the entire audio without any separation). This is great when you throw a party and everyone listens to the music identically. The movie theatres and concerts do the same thing (mind you there is not a .1 there, usually theres few of them).

 

[moserw]

Personally I have found a 6.2 system better than a 7.1 especially when you play with the crossover. 7.1 is good, but unfortunately so little true 7.1 content is available. Like marsilians pointed out 7.1 ended up as all channels/stereo or else being upmixed from 5.1 to 7.1 and in both cases 5.1 ended up sounding better....

 

[Gurudristi]

Dear Marsilians,

I have been experimenting with this somewhat to see how I like having 6.1 / 7.1 over 5.1 for some time now.

For some movies which have excellent sound tracks, having the extra back speaker seems to make the sound more seamless as it moves across the back.
I feel, a 7.1 does make a difference in filling-in the soundfield for such movies. Plus, there are, in fact, sounds that come decretely from the backs in 7.1 mode even if the DVD is only 5.1 surround, and that's the whole point of the 7.1 receiver's DSP technology. You'll often hear sounds going from back to front, and vice versa. During action sequences, it will go a long way to bringing the scene to life. They certainly create a larger sound field in the rear and thus a larger image of the sound.

Secondly, we all would be upgrading to 7.1 on Blu-Ray in the near future. There are already titles available and the list is growing.

I donot see a reason as to why not we should go in for the full 7.1 system when a decent number of DVD soundtracks have been encoded in either Dolby Digital EX or DTS-ES technologies that provide an additional matrixed (or in the case of DTS-ES, either discrete or matrixed) surround channel, bringing the total channel count up to 6.1. (In a 7.1-speaker system, that extra mono surround channel gets distributed to both of the back speakers.)

A number of them also offer Dolby Pro Logic IIx and DTS Neo:6 processing, both of which produce a 6.1- or 7.1-channel output from a standard 5.1-channel or stereo source.

While, I do agree that if one watches low budget films, then having a nice surround sound setup is largely defeated because of their poor soundtracks not having any sound effects. With those movies, all you really need is to use a center channel or your TV speakers.

 

[marsilians]

Hi Guridristi,

A sound envelope is a personal feeling and if you feel 6/7.1 offers better soundstage, so be it.

Otehrwise, you are mentioning pretty much what I have said before. The keywords I have used is "matrix" & "synthesized". I have watched Incredibles in DD 5.1 EX and Saving Private Ryan in DTS ES via a 7.1 setup. Again, to my ears, I did not see much effect due to the 6/7 channels pushing the mono content vs. 5.1 PL-IIx setup.

I am not arguing against you going 7.1 channels. I think its years away esp. assuming no new standards come up that will make it even more messy. All of us are tired with DD and DTS already. TrueHD & DTS-HD are other rowdies in the gang !

I sure will not let you have buyers remorse!!

Dear Marsilians,

I have been experimenting with this somewhat to see how I like having 6.1 / 7.1 over 5.1 for some time now.

For some movies which have excellent sound tracks, having the extra back speaker seems to make the sound more seamless as it moves across the back.
I feel, a 7.1 does make a difference in filling-in the soundfield for such movies. Plus, there are, in fact, sounds that come decretely from the backs in 7.1 mode even if the DVD is only 5.1 surround, and that's the whole point of the 7.1 receiver's DSP technology. You'll often hear sounds going from back to front, and vice versa. During action sequences, it will go a long way to bringing the scene to life. They certainly create a larger sound field in the rear and thus a larger image of the sound.

Secondly, we all would be upgrading to 7.1 on Blu-Ray in the near future. There are already titles available and the list is growing.

I donot see a reason as to why not we should go in for the full 7.1 system when a decent number of DVD soundtracks have been encoded in either Dolby Digital EX or DTS-ES technologies that provide an additional matrixed (or in the case of DTS-ES, either discrete or matrixed) surround channel, bringing the total channel count up to 6.1. (In a 7.1-speaker system, that extra mono surround channel gets distributed to both of the back speakers.)

A number of them also offer Dolby Pro Logic IIx and DTS Neo:6 processing, both of which produce a 6.1- or 7.1-channel output from a standard 5.1-channel or stereo source.

While, I do agree that if one watches low budget films, then having a nice surround sound setup is largely defeated because of their poor soundtracks not having any sound effects. With those movies, all you really need is to use a center channel or your TV speakers.

 

[venkatcr]

Guru:

I think there has been some misunderstanding here. I don't think any of us have anything against 7.1.As a matter of fact. I myself have a 7.1 configuration with an Onkyo 875 and Wharfedale speakers. I specifically purchased a THX certified AVR so that I could enjoy 7.1. It is different matter that I am not able to get good DVD Players with THX certification within reasonable pricing.

I misunderstood you initial post as to which speaker you have used for Rear Surround tasks.You have clarified that now.

I am looking forward to the day when I can enjoy the full capabilities of 7.1 with Blu-Ray, SACD and DVD-A.

Cheers

 

[Gurudristi]

Hi Guridristi,

I am not arguing against you going 7.1 channels. I think its years away esp. assuming no new standards come up that will make it even more messy. All of us are tired with DD and DTS already. TrueHD & DTS-HD are other rowdies in the gang !

I sure will not let you have buyers remorse!!

Whao!!!! Marsilians...????

Venkat, Thanks for your kind words and certainly there has been some misunderstanding...
I just want to add here is that surround sound started very humble beginning in the eighties from Dolby Surround to Dolby Pro-logic and so on....
I am enjoying the current set-up whether DD -EX or DTS -ES and look forward to enjoy full capabilities in the future, while keeping myself upgraded.... and thats what I will continue to recommend to my fellow members.

 

[subhash]

Whao!!!! Marsilians...????

Venkat, Thanks for your kind words and certainly there has been some misunderstanding...
I just want to add here is that surround sound started very humble beginning in the eighties from Dolby Surround to Dolby Pro-logic and so on....
I am enjoying the current set-up whether DD -EX or DTS -ES and look forward to enjoy full capabilities in the future, while keeping myself upgraded.... and that what I will continue to recommend to my fellow members.

hi ,i fully agree with guru,adding rear speakers does improve the sorround sound to a large extent ,i have experimented by adding on a 6th speaker at the rear,,,,,the over all sorround sound stage does improve no doubt!