New Integra AVR

[caspian1985]

Surprise! Integra Breaks the Mold, Announcing New Flagship DRX-8.4 11.4-CH AVR

(February 28, 2023) Integra's been listening, and its all-new flagship AV Receiver is the result. Having fielded input from professional installers and looking to further distance itself from Onkyo's consumer-focused retail models, the DRX-8.4 arrives with a full suite of integration software...

www.avnirvana.com

11 x 150W - some great photos ! Wonder what it’ll be priced at in India

 

[sandeepmohan]

Surprise! Integra Breaks the Mold, Announcing New Flagship DRX-8.4 11.4-CH AVR

(February 28, 2023) Integra's been listening, and its all-new flagship AV Receiver is the result. Having fielded input from professional installers and looking to further distance itself from Onkyo's consumer-focused retail models, the DRX-8.4 arrives with a full suite of integration software...

www.avnirvana.com

11 x 150W - some great photos ! Wonder what it’ll be priced at in India

Thats 150 watt per channel under 2 channel drive. You're looking at <20 watts per channel, all channels driven!
Professional installers are unlikely to use the internal amplifier.
All said and done, looks like a neat and well built unit. Typical Integra looks.

 

[caspian1985]

Thats 150 watt per channel under 2 channel drive. You're looking at <20 watts per channel, all channels driven!
Professional installers are unlikely to use the internal amplifier.
All said and done, looks like a neat and well built unit. Typical Integra looks.

That’s a generalization I don’t agree with - if the front speakers are power hungry adding a two channel power amp removes the bulk of the load, and the AVR can still drive 9 channels. Anthem publishes numbers of 7 channels driven for their 11 channel models, that would be an interesting number to look at. All channels driven is not a realistic spec as the height channels are not power hungry anyway.

DLBC support out of the box, ability to drive passive subs, XLR connections all look exciting.

 

[pkhammu2005]

Integra is under new ownership now,earier onkyo was handling it. Am pretty sure if they come to India support would b minimal?

 

[caspian1985]

Integra is under new ownership now,earier onkyo was handling it. Am pretty sure if they come to India support would b minimal?

Cinebels is handing distribution and service for Integra now along with Onkyo and Pioneer. https://www.cinebels.com/integra

 

[sandeepmohan]

That’s a generalization I don’t agree with

It is not generalization. When you publish a certain amount of power, do so under the correct use conditions. Who buys an AVR to drive two channels or one channel in their setup? Not that I am expecting manufacturers to publish data for all 11 channels. Atleast work to the minimum of 5 channels driven and publish data as that is the baseline configuration for any home theater setup. Besides; when you are charging a significant amount for a product and you are a flagship brand (under the Onkyo banner), then I need to know what it is capable of. This isn't some bargain basement receiver selling for $500.

I do appreciate brands like Anthem and NAD, who publish data under full load.

 

[caspian1985]

It is not generalization. When you publish a certain amount of power, do so under the correct use conditions. Who buys an AVR to drive two channels or one channel in their setup? Not that I am expecting manufacturers to publish data for all 11 channels. Atleast work to the minimum of 5 channels driven and publish data as that is the baseline configuration for any home theater setup. Besides; when you are charging a significant amount for a product and you are a flagship brand (under the Onkyo banner), then I need to know what it is capable of. This isn't some bargain basement receiver selling for $500.

I do appreciate brands like Anthem and NAD, who publish data under full load.

Anthem® | A/V Receiver | MRX 1140 | Specifications

www.anthemav.com

Looks like Anthem isn’t publishing those numbers any more. They are publishing power for different channels but not for multiple channels driven. NAD still does.

Another spec that I find relevant though there’s no exact correlation is weight. The MRX 1140 is 15 kg, the Denon 6700H is 14 kg, the Cinema 40 is 15 kg and then DRX 8.4 and Yamaha A8A are both around 23 kg. I’ve seen more weight means bigger power supply and/or heat sinks both of which translate to better power delivery.

 

[Nitin K]

It is not generalization. When you publish a certain amount of power, do so under the correct use conditions. Who buys an AVR to drive two channels or one channel in their setup? Not that I am expecting manufacturers to publish data for all 11 channels. Atleast work to the minimum of 5 channels driven and publish data as that is the baseline configuration for any home theater setup. Besides; when you are charging a significant amount for a product and you are a flagship brand (under the Onkyo banner), then I need to know what it is capable of. This isn't some bargain basement receiver selling for $500.

I do appreciate brands like Anthem and NAD, who publish data under full load.

Very true, avr's should mention specs on minimum 5 channels on continuously driven load if they are really worthy. Mentioning 1 or 2 channels is not of much use as no one buys them for that purpose.

 

[caspian1985]

Very true, avr's should mention specs on minimum 5 channels on continuously driven load if they are really worthy. Mentioning 1 or 2 channels is not of much use as no one buys them for that purpose.

That may be true in theory - but I think now NAD is the only brand that does this. Even Arcam ( https://www.arcam.co.uk/ugc/tor/AVR21/Specification Sheet/ARCAM_AVR21_Spec_Sheet_V1.pdf ) is publishing power for 7 channels at 1 kHz ( not full spectrum ) and at 0.2% THD ( instead of 0.1% ). I’ve seen specs from Denon and Marantz with power written at 6 ohms, 10% THD, 1 kHz, which is completely misleading.

The issue is most buyers don’t understand power - even in a HT setup you often don’t need close to the theoretical maximum output, what you get with more power is more headroom mostly and ability to drive for larger rooms. So brands inflate power specs not just based on number of channels driven but also impedance etc.

At the very least brands should publish 2 channels driven at 8 ohms, full spectrum, < 0.1% THD, but often even that doesn’t happen. This is the FTC spec and is at least a level playing field and let’s you compare apples to apples.

It’s also incorrect to think 150W per channel will drop to 20-30W all channel driven. What’s the math for that?

And in general your LCR will take way more power ( both in terms of speaker size and also the amount of information that goes to them ) than surrounds which is why also all channels driven is irrelevant.

Emotiva is a smart design where the LCR channels are given more power than the surrounds

 

[Nitin K]

That may be true in theory - but I think now NAD is the only brand that does this. Even Arcam ( https://www.arcam.co.uk/ugc/tor/AVR21/Specification Sheet/ARCAM_AVR21_Spec_Sheet_V1.pdf ) is publishing power for 7 channels at 1 kHz ( not full spectrum ) and at 0.2% THD ( instead of 0.1% ). I’ve seen specs from Denon and Marantz with power written at 6 ohms, 10% THD, 1 kHz, which is completely misleading.

The issue is most buyers don’t understand power - even in a HT setup you often don’t need close to the theoretical maximum output, what you get with more power is more headroom mostly and ability to drive for larger rooms. So brands inflate power specs not just based on number of channels driven but also impedance etc.

At the very least brands should publish 2 channels driven at 8 ohms, full spectrum, < 0.1% THD, but often even that doesn’t happen. This is the FTC spec and is at least a level playing field and let’s you compare apples to apples.

It’s also incorrect to think 150W per channel will drop to 20-30W all channel driven. What’s the math for that?

And in general your LCR will take way more power ( both in terms of speaker size and also the amount of information that goes to them ) than surrounds which is why also all channels driven is irrelevant.

Emotiva is a smart design where the LCR channels are given more power than the surrounds

Yes, that is why Nad is respected for their honesty and good sound too. Totally agree the way most of the manufacturers twist or misinterpret the truth in power ratings in terms of distortion and ohms.
Although in all practicality all channels will not be continuously driven at their max ratings but people respect honest manufacturers.
After all these years have realised that I would rather go to a small honest company with a good build and sound quality rather than a big well known company famous for fudging their specs just to sell more units.

 

[sandeepmohan]

It’s also incorrect to think 150W per channel will drop to 20-30W all channel driven. What’s the math for that?
And in general your LCR will take way more power ( both in terms of speaker size and also the amount of information that goes to them ) than surrounds which is why also all channels driven is irrelevant.
Emotiva is a smart design where the LCR channels are given more power than the surrounds

Its simple. Total power / number of driven channels.
These power figures are dynamic. If your receiver receives a signal that focuses on just the front 3 channels, its going to have more power available for them at the given time. Introduce a couple more channels with an input signal, such as your Surrounds, it needs to power those too. The power it had initially to drive those LCR's is no longer there. Thats when AVR's start to loose composure or even stability. Varied speaker impedance makes matters worse. How often have we heard of AV receivers not sounding as good as their stereo counterparts? They use the exact same class AB amplifiers as your stereo integrated, now driving over twice the number of channels. The quest to make everything cheaper means manufacturers have to cut corners somewhere and that starts by playing with power ratings.

Emotiva (or most power amplifiers) don't reduce power output for the Surround channels. Its equal power output under all channel drive. Each speaker output has its own amplifier module. However; you don't get more power from unused channels like an AVR. As an example, if you choose not to use the Atmos channels, the other driven channels don't get more power. It stays at the manufacturer claimed specification.

 

[square_wave]

A high end professional installer that I know, almost always adds a high end power amplifier to drive the front 2 speakers and distributes the avr power for the remaining speakers. Works like a charm!

 

[caspian1985]

Its simple. Total power / number of driven channels.
These power figures are dynamic. If your receiver receives a signal that focuses on just the front 3 channels, its going to have more power available for them at the given time. Introduce a couple more channels with an input signal, such as your Surrounds, it needs to power those too. The power it had initially to drive those LCR's is no longer there. Thats when AVR's start to loose composure or even stability. Varied speaker impedance makes matters worse. How often have we heard of AV receivers not sounding as good as their stereo counterparts? They use the exact same class AB amplifiers as your stereo integrated, now driving over twice the number of channels. The quest to make everything cheaper means manufacturers have to cut corners somewhere and that starts by playing with power ratings.

Emotiva (or most power amplifiers) don't reduce power output for the Surround channels. Its equal power output under all channel drive. Each speaker output has its own amplifier module. However; you don't get more power from unused channels like an AVR. As an example, if you choose not to use the Atmos channels, the other driven channels don't get more power. It stays at the manufacturer claimed specification.

I agree with everything but disagree with the math. What you’re saying is if a receiver is 100W x 2, it’ll be 200W x 1, and 70W x 3. Pier doesn’t drop linearly with the number of channels

 

[caspian1985]

A high end professional installer that I know, almost always adds a high end power amplifier to drive the front 2 speakers and distributes the avr power for the remaining speakers. Works like a charm!

This is exactly what I’ve done in my setup - and the ( subjective ) benefit of 2 vs 5 channel power amp was minimal as the front two were the most power hungry and therefore using a 2 channel had the maximum bang for the buck

 

[caspian1985]

I agree with everything but disagree with the math. What you’re saying is if a receiver is 100W x 2, it’ll be 200W x 1, and 70W x 3. Pier doesn’t drop linearly with the number of channels

Take NAD as an example

T 778 - NAD Electronics

The T 778 features the latest developments in NAD’s Hybrid Digital technology to create 9 high current/high power channels of amplification.

nadelectronics.com

140W x 2 translates to 85W x 9. By your math, it should be around 30W x 9

 

[sandeepmohan]

Take NAD as an example

That NAD is definitely efficient and so are most Hybrid or Digital Amplifiers. The same does not hold true for anything Class AB, which is 99% of the mass AV Receiver market. Power plummets rather quickly as you add more channels.

There is no compulsion to believe the math that I have shared.
The point I am trying to drive is, power ratings on these AVR's need to be taken with a grain of salt. If they really delivered what they claimed, you would not need an external power amplifier to drive even those two power hungry channels.

 

[caspian1985]

That NAD is definitely efficient and so are most Hybrid or Digital Amplifiers. The same does not hold true for anything Class AB, which is 99% of the mass AV Receiver market. Power plummets rather quickly as you add more channels.

There is no compulsion to believe the math that I have shared.
The point I am trying to drive is, power ratings on these AVR's need to be taken with a grain of salt. If they really delivered what they claimed, you would not need an external power amplifier to drive even those two power hungry channels.

It’s not about efficiency - efficiency will dictate how much of the input power is converted to output.

That NAD is definitely efficient and so are most Hybrid or Digital Amplifiers. The same does not hold true for anything Class AB, which is 99% of the mass AV Receiver market. Power plummets rather quickly as you add more channels.

There is no compulsion to believe the math that I have shared.
The point I am trying to drive is, power ratings on these AVR's need to be taken with a grain of salt. If they really delivered what they claimed, you would not need an external power amplifier to drive even those two power hungry channels.

Efficiency has to do with how the input power translates to output in totality - so class D ( NAD ) will run cooler and will need a smaller power supply to give the same output. The point I’m making is the power drop is not linear with number of channels regardless of the class of the amp.

I agree power ratings need to be better published, the fact is no one does it.

In terms of my setup I was using a Marantz 6015 and replaced that with a Pioneer LX-505. My fronts are the Klipsch P-37F which are hard to drive speakers for any AVR - 275W/1100W peak and are 4 ohms. So I added the Roksan Caspian 2 channel power amp that does 300W at 4 ohms and 400W at 2 ohms and that’s made a huge difference.

 

[Arvind Mathur]

I am looking to upgrade my Onkyo 3030 AVR to this Integra DRX 8.4 but no user reviews are available. Has any forum member bought this AVR.
My other choicest are Arcam AVR 31 and Denon 8500 HA.
Would seek some advice from fellow members to help me choose a value for money AVR.

 

[caspian1985]

I am looking to upgrade my Onkyo 3030 AVR to this Integra DRX 8.4 but no user reviews are available. Has any forum member bought this AVR.
My other choicest are Arcam AVR 31 and Denon 8500 HA.
Would seek some advice from fellow members to help me choose a value for money AVR.

I’ve only seen the World Wide Stereo company and user reviews. Is the 8.4 available in India?
Denon 8500HA is previous gen - you’ll get a lot more features like HDMI 2.1 and Dirac in the 8.4 and AVR 31.