anm
Well-Known Member
great. how much money spent? 850w psu - that's a lot of electricity to burn.
New PC --- avoiding the DPC Latency nightmare?
- Thread starter Thad E Ginathom
- Start date
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
about Rs.41,000 - that's a lot of money to burn!*
Sheesh... it's come a long way from a budget board and cpu change in an existing case. 17,000 of that is case and psu. That case should probably serve me for the next several generations of contents upgrade! The case/psu combination was purchased pretty much on the recommendation of silentpcreview.com | Everything about Silent / Quiet Computers. Actually, I could have easily done with something much smaller all round, but did not find the mb facilities I wanted on smaller boards. Could have looked harder maybe!
Sources:
Case and PC from TheITDepot. I think a lot of their business is online, which means people pay when they order. I was a bit annoyed they wanted an advance (only 2000, though) before ordering these items for me --- but they did get them in same day. Advance paid around 11.00am: picked up goods 8.30pm. Main advantage is that they are near by to me.
Motherboard, CPU etc from Delta Page. I got a quote from a relative of a friend for the MB that was 3,000 more! It is a great shop. Very busy, and not as big as I expected. It took about 45 minute to buy all the stuff, as they had to send to godown for bits, but friendly, helpful people, including the Big Boss sitting in the Big Chair! No Antec, hence no one-stop-shop.
Deltapage charge 2% for foreign cards: I should have bought more of the bits from IT Depot. Anyway, as a tedious boss of mine used to say, in the larger scale of things, 2% is not a lot to worry about.
We were lucky enough to get a parking space just around the corner with only a few minutes waiting.
Hmmm... I posting all this stuff before I've made it all work. Superstitiously dangerous! Anyway, this is a post about buying only
*yes, if it was working flat out it would be as much as an AC unit almost. However, I understand that it only delivers as demanded, and only draws from the mains accordingly. Will have to use the APC utility in Windows to see what it is drawing (the Ubuntu equiv application not as good).
Now... I need a budget PC for one of my wife's charity students, studying computer science without a computer ...
Sheesh... it's come a long way from a budget board and cpu change in an existing case. 17,000 of that is case and psu. That case should probably serve me for the next several generations of contents upgrade! The case/psu combination was purchased pretty much on the recommendation of silentpcreview.com | Everything about Silent / Quiet Computers. Actually, I could have easily done with something much smaller all round, but did not find the mb facilities I wanted on smaller boards. Could have looked harder maybe!
Sources:
Case and PC from TheITDepot. I think a lot of their business is online, which means people pay when they order. I was a bit annoyed they wanted an advance (only 2000, though) before ordering these items for me --- but they did get them in same day. Advance paid around 11.00am: picked up goods 8.30pm. Main advantage is that they are near by to me.
Motherboard, CPU etc from Delta Page. I got a quote from a relative of a friend for the MB that was 3,000 more! It is a great shop. Very busy, and not as big as I expected. It took about 45 minute to buy all the stuff, as they had to send to godown for bits, but friendly, helpful people, including the Big Boss sitting in the Big Chair! No Antec, hence no one-stop-shop.
Deltapage charge 2% for foreign cards: I should have bought more of the bits from IT Depot. Anyway, as a tedious boss of mine used to say, in the larger scale of things, 2% is not a lot to worry about.
We were lucky enough to get a parking space just around the corner with only a few minutes waiting.
Hmmm... I posting all this stuff before I've made it all work. Superstitiously dangerous! Anyway, this is a post about buying only
*yes, if it was working flat out it would be as much as an AC unit almost. However, I understand that it only delivers as demanded, and only draws from the mains accordingly. Will have to use the APC utility in Windows to see what it is drawing (the Ubuntu equiv application not as good).
Now... I need a budget PC for one of my wife's charity students, studying computer science without a computer ...
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Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
It's been a mixed day.
You know how we tweak our systems? Install all that vital stuff and then forget it until the next time is is vital, and then we've forgotten? Even in a few months of using Ubuntu, there are a lot of bits and pieces that need to be done (even without the forgotten-toy packages).
It's also been on and off. First, Firewire was no go, so, after a lot of faffing, I reinstalled (and Ubuntu studio is a big install). Somehow I broke networking, and had to install yet again. Tedious stuff.
Oddly, the ubuntu install on the disk from the old machine worked! Only it lacked drivers for the network card. Imagine taking a winows hdd from one machine, and booting it on another, completely different machine!
Oh well, I suppose that's why I went for the Studio distro
Using my RME card again now ...
The power supply is huge, and very quiet; the AMD cooler is very small and very noisy: warranty be damned, it has to be changed. well, I say small, actually, it is a hunk compared to the Intel cooler in the old machine (which had a very silent fan). AMD phenom cooler, right? There must be a knack. I was just about to give up when the lever slipped into place.
The case ... nice, but not as well-built as I think it should be for the money. It has far more ideas than my old compaq, but not so solid, despite its considerable weight.
Watching sensor temperatures carefully, and hoping to be able to slow down the fans.
Firewire Audiofire2 ... I don't think it is going to happen: watch out in the for-sale section if interested. It is just too much complexity. In windows, it'll work just like a sound card: in Ubuntu, it needs Jack, configured and running, and applications configured to work with that and hey, that's fine, maybe for serious work, but not for listening to a bit of music!
You know how we tweak our systems? Install all that vital stuff and then forget it until the next time is is vital, and then we've forgotten? Even in a few months of using Ubuntu, there are a lot of bits and pieces that need to be done (even without the forgotten-toy packages).
It's also been on and off. First, Firewire was no go, so, after a lot of faffing, I reinstalled (and Ubuntu studio is a big install). Somehow I broke networking, and had to install yet again. Tedious stuff.
Oddly, the ubuntu install on the disk from the old machine worked! Only it lacked drivers for the network card. Imagine taking a winows hdd from one machine, and booting it on another, completely different machine!
Oh well, I suppose that's why I went for the Studio distro
Using my RME card again now ...
The power supply is huge, and very quiet; the AMD cooler is very small and very noisy: warranty be damned, it has to be changed. well, I say small, actually, it is a hunk compared to the Intel cooler in the old machine (which had a very silent fan). AMD phenom cooler, right? There must be a knack. I was just about to give up when the lever slipped into place.
The case ... nice, but not as well-built as I think it should be for the money. It has far more ideas than my old compaq, but not so solid, despite its considerable weight.
Watching sensor temperatures carefully, and hoping to be able to slow down the fans.
Firewire Audiofire2 ... I don't think it is going to happen: watch out in the for-sale section if interested. It is just too much complexity. In windows, it'll work just like a sound card: in Ubuntu, it needs Jack, configured and running, and applications configured to work with that and hey, that's fine, maybe for serious work, but not for listening to a bit of music!
^Changing the cooler does not void warranty afaik. In case the processor dies you will need to send in the original heatsink along with it to claim warranty. So go ahead and get a better cooler but keep the original heatsink as well
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
"To ensure full compliance with AMD's Limited Warranty for PIB products, the heatsink fan assembly ..." Not sure if that means that using another cooler invalidates the warranty.
I'd guess that the warranty is probably not a great deal of use except if it is dead on arrival anyway.
The cooler fan is now making quite a lot less noise. Maybe the bearings are settling in. The processor is hardly working at all, and there are only odd times when it is and the fan increases speed. Frankly, one ceiling fan is a lot louder than the PC at it's loudest!
I'd guess that the warranty is probably not a great deal of use except if it is dead on arrival anyway.
The cooler fan is now making quite a lot less noise. Maybe the bearings are settling in. The processor is hardly working at all, and there are only odd times when it is and the fan increases speed. Frankly, one ceiling fan is a lot louder than the PC at it's loudest!
Fan noise matters a lot. You will realize on the days you work 4AM and doze off in between or on tired afternoons. One wakes up feeling slightly disturbed compared to the situation without fan noise.
Look for a 120mm fan+heatsink that throws less than 24db and install that.
Cheers
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
I suppose fanless passive cooling is just a silly idea when the ambient temperature is 30 to begin with?
Yes... of course... silly to ask. I'd probably have to turn those case fans up so high it would defeat the object.
I've been working with the two Tricool case fans on medium setting. The airflow is audible. Testing out on low: the processor fan is now audible, but the total noise is much less than my old machine.
Yes... of course... silly to ask. I'd probably have to turn those case fans up so high it would defeat the object.
I've been working with the two Tricool case fans on medium setting. The airflow is audible. Testing out on low: the processor fan is now audible, but the total noise is much less than my old machine.
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
Thanks, Venkat. I appreciate it that you remembered this thread --- but I am fairly sure that is the same software I had used to diagnose my problem on the old PC.
re: noise... had noticed more fan noise recently. The P183 has air intake through most of the front of the case (unless you fill the topmost part with drives) and I washed a fair amount of cat hair and dust from the removable filters last night. Yes, must check inside too. And keep up checking every month or two.
re: noise... had noticed more fan noise recently. The P183 has air intake through most of the front of the case (unless you fill the topmost part with drives) and I washed a fair amount of cat hair and dust from the removable filters last night. Yes, must check inside too. And keep up checking every month or two.
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
It isn't going to happen :sad:.
Oh... it works! And I am sure that I can get rid of the occasional drop-out by tweaking the many settings in Jack (that's partly what they are for) but I just can't be bothered.
Added to which, when I want to listen to music, I want to start just one application, and listen to music. The current situation (This link helped me to get it working straight away) is, start jack; start vlc and play; enter jack connections screen and connect output of vlc to input of jack; listen... Too Much Fuss. Nor am I prepared to go back to square one with Linux and seek a distribution that might handle firewire audio better than Ubuntu does.
So the choice is between Ubuntu and the Audiofire2. There is no competition: I am not going back to Windows!
It's a pity. The Audiofire2 does pretty-much what I want; not too little, and not too much (I don't need a box bristling with mic and instrument sockets, but I do want input as well as output, so just a DAC won't do, I need ADC too)
I still have my RME Digi96/8 PST. It's a good card, albeit old, and it is supported under Linux at least as far as the analogue i/o, which is all I need for now. I'll stick with it and be happy!
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anm
Well-Known Member
With wifi off, only LAN cable connected and other programs running as usual (outlook, ie, firefox etc) and not doing much work, it is about 210 microsex. Absolute max is 2235 microsex. This program doesn't calculate avg it seems.
It says
"Some device drivers on this machine behave bad and will probably cause drop-outs in real-time audio and/or video streams."
Itunes/ foobar is not running, and no usb device connected. I am storing music on external 1TB usb, and usb async sound card.
Shouldn't async usb eat some of the latency? What about the buffer in foobar? Will it eat some?
Feeling very disappointed!
It says
"Some device drivers on this machine behave bad and will probably cause drop-outs in real-time audio and/or video streams."
Itunes/ foobar is not running, and no usb device connected. I am storing music on external 1TB usb, and usb async sound card.
Shouldn't async usb eat some of the latency? What about the buffer in foobar? Will it eat some?
Feeling very disappointed!
anm
Well-Known Member
It doesn't help even when I removed the LAN cable.
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
Sympathy. This is a problem one should just not face. It is like having a new car in which one gear does not work.Shouldn't async usb eat some of the latency? What about the buffer in foobar? Will it eat some?
Feeling very disappointed!
There seems to be a limited amount that one can do about it. As you know, in the end, I built a new PC.
anm
Well-Known Member
are there similar tools for linux?
Did building new PC help or moving to linux?
Did building new PC help or moving to linux?
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anm
Well-Known Member
On reading the home page of the site, it says mostly device drivers are responsible, more than the hardware itself.
Is it worth investigating and then finding a better driver for the responsible device? I doubt that I would find any replacement driver though.
Is it worth investigating and then finding a better driver for the responsible device? I doubt that I would find any replacement driver though.
Some DPC latency figures i observed in the pc i have
Eee pc netbook with 1.6 single core
amd dual core 2.3ghz with a jetway mini itx board in desktop/download rig
asrock G31 mb with a 2.7 dual core in carputer.
Carputer one has least values. this was also why i recommended someone not to go for a atom based setup for car. i have posted a rough config only
Eee pc netbook with 1.6 single core
amd dual core 2.3ghz with a jetway mini itx board in desktop/download rig
asrock G31 mb with a 2.7 dual core in carputer.
Carputer one has least values. this was also why i recommended someone not to go for a atom based setup for car. i have posted a rough config only
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Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
Moving to Linux did not help on the old machine. Neither did moving from a PCI sound card to a Fire-wire external. My DPC tool screens were solid red, with barely any yellow, let alone green. Jack, under Linux (which seems to be a bit of an art anyway) was an unusable constant stream of overruns.
I don't remember if I used the DPC tool under Windows on this machine, as I am pretty-much Linux dedicated these days, but, thank goodness, stuff seems to work --- although, setting up firewire sound, with the aforementioned jack and stuff, is more hard work than I am prepared to do.
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
Well, actually ...
My new machine does have a latency spike every few seconds under WinXPsp3. It is so regular, that it would probably be possible to diagnose, though, although I am not much interested in how Windows works any longer.
Interested enough, though, to have a WinXP installation in a Virtual Machine under Linux. That gives an occasional red spike.
Heck... maybe I'll just buy a Mac next time 
:lol: :lol: 
...My new machine does have a latency spike every few seconds under WinXPsp3. It is so regular, that it would probably be possible to diagnose, though, although I am not much interested in how Windows works any longer.
Interested enough, though, to have a WinXP installation in a Virtual Machine under Linux. That gives an occasional red spike.
Heck... maybe I'll just buy a Mac next time
:lol: :lol: anm
Well-Known Member
mine too gives a red spike once every 10-15 seconds. Whenever I heard an issue, I gave a look to the graph, and there was a red spike. Most of the times it is green, not even yellow.
I can heard audio skipping maybe once in every song. Statistically very less frequency, but annoying as hell.
I am thinking of setting up a voyager linux in a VM and see how it turns out.
I can heard audio skipping maybe once in every song. Statistically very less frequency, but annoying as hell.
I am thinking of setting up a voyager linux in a VM and see how it turns out.
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
In Windows, mine is much more frequent. Haven't much listened to audio with Windows: will try... and report.
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