Decadent_Spectre
Well-Known Member
If you know what your doing pro DSP manually EQed will be better sounding than Dirac IMO. Have played around with Dirac and didn't suit me as well as my manual settings.
Newly acquired Harbeth SHL5 in my setup - singing but not performing?????
- Thread starter eddie_fox
- Start date
sound_cycle
Well-Known Member
I found the Dirac solutions better than my "corrections". (I was quite OCD about getting the measurements right, the first one esp)
Not that i means anything, the important part being that Dirac allowed me to shape that curve with breakpoints and slope.
I've not been able to figure out how to set up a filter thing going on REW.
As for them others, coulda woulda with Audiolense et al. Trinnov was out of my budget (and requirement) I only about two channels.
Aplgs for slight (but still on point) OT.
ciao
gr
Hey Eddie,
Congrats on your new acquisition. On first impression, via pics, the room is pretty spartan resulting in reflective surfaces.
Your speakers are 6 ohm strict (no real dip below this as per Alan Shaw's design principle) and 86dB SPL.
Rega Brio-R should put out about 60Wpc at 6 ohm. The pairing should work for practical listening levels.
Room treatment will help provided you have the opportunity to go in for it.
In the mean time borrow equipment, as other FMs, have suggested and try out different pairings.
Since your chain is leaning towards analog sources, try out amps with humble tone controls.
Rega and many other companies have eliminated these simple knobs and Alan Shaw himself has a thing or two to say about this practice.
If you can play from digital sources (PC) then play around with EQ to color the sound to your liking.
I can bring the Marantz and Outlaw combo that you listened to at my home, if you are interested.
Cheers,
Raghu
Congrats on your new acquisition. On first impression, via pics, the room is pretty spartan resulting in reflective surfaces.
Your speakers are 6 ohm strict (no real dip below this as per Alan Shaw's design principle) and 86dB SPL.
Rega Brio-R should put out about 60Wpc at 6 ohm. The pairing should work for practical listening levels.
Room treatment will help provided you have the opportunity to go in for it.
In the mean time borrow equipment, as other FMs, have suggested and try out different pairings.
Since your chain is leaning towards analog sources, try out amps with humble tone controls.
Rega and many other companies have eliminated these simple knobs and Alan Shaw himself has a thing or two to say about this practice.
If you can play from digital sources (PC) then play around with EQ to color the sound to your liking.
I can bring the Marantz and Outlaw combo that you listened to at my home, if you are interested.
Cheers,
Raghu
Decadent_Spectre
Well-Known Member
Manual EQ needs knowledge of where to do what in the frequency range, Dirac is more user friendly and easy to use. You can shape the curve with manual DSP too or even just use something like the inbuilt JRiver DSP.
Audiolense etc are much more involved and it becomes a question of how far down the rabbit hole you want to go. There is not just money to consider but the time and effort required to gain and implement knowledge.
If you have a mic and manual DSP try measuring and EQing just to understand how the changes impact you subjectively, this will give you knowledge to utilize when EQing, with Dirac I feel that people usually just open it and automatically either use the default curve or target a flat curve or some variant of the slow gradual roll off into the top end but there is more to it that IMO.
Dirac of course remains a good option for those who do not seek to go down the rabbit hole and seek a easier solution more tailored to the average end user who is looking for a more plug and play solution IMO.
sound_cycle
Well-Known Member
Guilty as charged.
(I like autofocus cameras, laser rangefinders, word prcoessors and automatic watches)
While this is going away from EF;'s thread purpose, I am curious, the rabbit hole is always an attractive alternate. Which one do you run ? What are the manual overrides to the EQ curve I should attempt
ciao
gr
Hi Raghu,
Thanks. After extended listening, the Rega seems to be doing decently well with the Harbeths. In fact, the phono is where it is lacking a bit. Even my very basic DAC is faring better than the phono stage.
It will be great if you can come and listen to them with your pre+power combo. I will send you a pm and we can discuss your visit. Thanks for the help
EF
Just a thought since you are from Bangalore , could you source an Usher R1.5 from ARN systems , had detailed discussion with a person who said despite Harbeths claim to run with any amp decently they do their best with a high current amp. Eg , Usher R1.5 Denon PMA2000/1500 or the pre power combo a fellow hifivisioner just mentioned here.
Hi,
I have a similar sized room and i also faced a similar problem with my rethms. You may feel that the sound is lost before it reaches you.I would encourage you to try 3 steps.
1. Bring the speakers to the middle of your room.
2.Cover the side walls alternative areas with some sort of absorptive material ... may be a regular bed foam , pillow etc and bring in some furniture into the room if possible.
3.Cover the floor between you and the speaker with a Rug.
I have a similar sized room and i also faced a similar problem with my rethms. You may feel that the sound is lost before it reaches you.I would encourage you to try 3 steps.
1. Bring the speakers to the middle of your room.
2.Cover the side walls alternative areas with some sort of absorptive material ... may be a regular bed foam , pillow etc and bring in some furniture into the room if possible.
3.Cover the floor between you and the speaker with a Rug.
I would love to join too. Though I might not be able to add much. I could carry a Raspberry Pi3 along with an extra pair of ears if that would help.
Nice. Would love to hear that combo.
MaSh
arunkvivek
Well-Known Member
My living room's dimensions and furnishing are quite similar to yours. After reading this this, I have developed this feeling that my speakers are performing at sub optimum level.
I was thinking of upgrading path, but now I am keen on acoustics treatment. I would to love to adopt the solution that you discover.
I was thinking of upgrading path, but now I am keen on acoustics treatment. I would to love to adopt the solution that you discover.
This post if for the benefit of forum members.
Firstly, thanks to OP Eddie for hosting us (FM MaSh and me) at his home and giving us an opportunity to listening to the SHL5.
Kudos to the original owner of these babies for maintaining them in near pristine condition.
Now my personal opinion on Eddie's setup:
Schiit Modi-2 --> Marantz PM7001 --> Outlaw M2200s
Cheers,
Raghu
Firstly, thanks to OP Eddie for hosting us (FM MaSh and me) at his home and giving us an opportunity to listening to the SHL5.
Kudos to the original owner of these babies for maintaining them in near pristine condition.
Now my personal opinion on Eddie's setup:
- These speakers are big, imposing and the external finish is elegant
- They sound crisp/clear and definitely warm, absolutely no hint of listening fatigue with the OP's Rega BRIO-R
- Though the BRIO-R is a wee bit under powered it still drives the speakers well enough at normal listening levels
- Listening to Pink Floyd's "Run Like Hell" LP was a revelation and throwback in time for me at least
- The room seems to be contributing to the sound in certain cases and in other cases actually robbing some elements of the music content
- Basic room treatment may address some of these issues
Schiit Modi-2 --> Marantz PM7001 --> Outlaw M2200s
- OP's NuForce --> Marantz --> SHL5 sounded like crap
- Schiit Modi-2 --> Marantz --> SHL5 was marginally better but still a very bad pairing
- I was surprised as this amp drives my KEF R300s reasonably well; with Harbeths the bottom end was practically missing
- When the outlaws came in to the chain, the sound was full bodied but a bit of rasp on the vocals; Annie Lennox's "I Put a Spell on You" was spell binding but it felt like Annie had a slight lisp in her voice
- Schiit Modi-2 --> Marantz --> Outlaws --> SHL5 was definitely a better sounding chain; things came together quite well on many genres of music I generally listen to
- I am really happy that my hodge-podge budget chain can perform quite well with "honest to god" speakers like the Harbeths
Cheers,
Raghu
Totally second that. It was wonderful meeting eddie and Raghu. Their knowledge on music, amps, speakers and everything related was overwhelming. For some one like me whose just getting started in this world, it was an excellent learning.
Eddie's speakers are simply gorgeous and that rega amp drove them brilliantly upto moderate levels. Highlight for me was listening to lp records for the first time in my life. Did i mention his massive collection beautifully stacked.
We should do this more often.
MaSh
Eddie , how is it sounding now ? Setting up speakers takes time and the idea is to enjoy the process.it is one of the most fun things if you look at it that way.
Raghupb/mash awesome work by you
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Raghupb/mash awesome work by you
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
keith_correa
Well-Known Member
She actually has a Scottish burr which could be construed as a slight lisp. So if you can hear that then "revealing" is the audiophile term to use.
She actually has a Scottish burr which could be construed as a slight lisp. So if you can hear that then "revealing" is the audiophile term to use.
I have heard this in my own setup too.
Schiit --> Marantz --> Outlaw --> KEF R300
I always blamed it on the chain being a teeny bit noisy on the vocals and highs.
With Rega in the chain, this artifact was not there; the vocals were very smooth.
So I don't know if my chain is "revealing" or the other one is "concealing".
Playing devil's advocate here; but then this the point of a forum discussion
I would still say Rega + Harbeth is a great combo.
Cheers,
Raghu
Some more on the tune set that I explored during the audition with my chain + Harbeth.
- Rufus Wainwright's cover of "Hallelujah" made me close my eyes and be lost in the music
- Jethro Tull's "Sossity, You Are a Woman", which I consider an excellent acoustic track, was wonderful to hear. I really enjoyed the initial finger movement along the fret board and tambourine jingling towards the latter part of the song
- Porcupine Tree's "Nine Cats (Acoustic)" was so realistic that I could visualize the plucking of strings
- Ben Harper's "Excuse Me Mr.", a bass heavy track actually confirmed room boom
- Played two numbers from Re-Machined, A Tribute to Deep Purple; Iron Maiden covering "Space Truckin'" and Metallica covering "When a Blind Man Cries". Frankly I love the way the KEFs render the raw visceral nature of these bands. Harbeths sounded a bit polite
Harbeths may get here with a little experimentation on placement and minimal room treatment.
Cheers,
Raghu
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi all,
Firstly, after the first post, which I feel, now, that I wrote a bit in haste, I have had a decent time period to listen to the set-up a lot more, with lot many genres of music, different mediums and different recording qualities. So, my initial observations have changed a little (could also be that I have just gotten used to the sound signature now).
Secondly, thanks to Raghu and MaSH for dropping in and validating my findings (mostly pretty evident ones) :
1. The Harbeths are brilliant - Just the fact that every single day I am looking forward to finishing my job earlier and earlier, listing out all the songs I have to listen to that particular evening, rushing back home, plonking myself on the sofa (with some Aberlour/Laphroaig or some such for company) and listening for 5 hours straight with occasional song requests from wife, should be evidence enough.
2. Rega and Harbeths are a good match - maybe not the best, but I think I can easily live with this combination for a while. Silky smooth, good details and refined
3. Rega Brio-r is underpowered - Raghu's pre+power gave us an idea what the Brio was lacking. Just a small push from 9'o clock to 10 position on the Marantz opened the sound of all the instruments in the piece, especially the bass. The Rega Brio needs to be pushed beyond 11-12 position and the result is a bit noisy and muddled
4. My NuForce Air DAc is really basic and functional - I need to consider an upgrade here
5. Room treatment is the crying need of the hour - I can feel that basic room treatment like a couple of bass traps and acoustic panels are greatly necessary to improve the sound, especially the bass traps, as I can feel the pressure buildup in my ears with a few songs with sustained low frequencies.
Hence, I am trying to add some better furniture, find affordable treatment supplies, nothing that is too jarring aesthetically and will blend in into my living room. I have also ordered a nice carpet for the floor and will try to address the reflection points on the floor and the side walls (ceiling - not sure I can do anything there, don't think I want to either)
Anyway, my immediate plan of action, therefore, is furniture + room treatment first, good DAC next and maybe an amp upgrade (to Rega Elex or Elicit maybe, as I like the combo) during my end of year visit to the Blighty. (I will post 'before/after' pictures of my room as soon as I do something)
Meanwhile, as I type this, I am listening to 'Soulville' by Ben Webster on my headphones at work. So, this evening will be an evening of Harbeth, scotch, some olives and great saxophone... Hmm, am I the new king of good times??
Firstly, after the first post, which I feel, now, that I wrote a bit in haste, I have had a decent time period to listen to the set-up a lot more, with lot many genres of music, different mediums and different recording qualities. So, my initial observations have changed a little (could also be that I have just gotten used to the sound signature now).
Secondly, thanks to Raghu and MaSH for dropping in and validating my findings (mostly pretty evident ones) :
1. The Harbeths are brilliant - Just the fact that every single day I am looking forward to finishing my job earlier and earlier, listing out all the songs I have to listen to that particular evening, rushing back home, plonking myself on the sofa (with some Aberlour/Laphroaig or some such for company) and listening for 5 hours straight with occasional song requests from wife, should be evidence enough.
2. Rega and Harbeths are a good match - maybe not the best, but I think I can easily live with this combination for a while. Silky smooth, good details and refined
3. Rega Brio-r is underpowered - Raghu's pre+power gave us an idea what the Brio was lacking. Just a small push from 9'o clock to 10 position on the Marantz opened the sound of all the instruments in the piece, especially the bass. The Rega Brio needs to be pushed beyond 11-12 position and the result is a bit noisy and muddled
4. My NuForce Air DAc is really basic and functional - I need to consider an upgrade here
5. Room treatment is the crying need of the hour - I can feel that basic room treatment like a couple of bass traps and acoustic panels are greatly necessary to improve the sound, especially the bass traps, as I can feel the pressure buildup in my ears with a few songs with sustained low frequencies.
Hence, I am trying to add some better furniture, find affordable treatment supplies, nothing that is too jarring aesthetically and will blend in into my living room. I have also ordered a nice carpet for the floor and will try to address the reflection points on the floor and the side walls (ceiling - not sure I can do anything there, don't think I want to either)
Anyway, my immediate plan of action, therefore, is furniture + room treatment first, good DAC next and maybe an amp upgrade (to Rega Elex or Elicit maybe, as I like the combo) during my end of year visit to the Blighty. (I will post 'before/after' pictures of my room as soon as I do something)
Meanwhile, as I type this, I am listening to 'Soulville' by Ben Webster on my headphones at work. So, this evening will be an evening of Harbeth, scotch, some olives and great saxophone... Hmm, am I the new king of good times??
get a good dac. it will sort out a lot of your problems. if you dont have much of a budget right now and dont mind experimenting a bit, go with a chinese assembled kit. i bought one and am extremely happy with it
as for the muddiness at high volumes, i suspect it is to do with the lower wattage output of the amp
as for the muddiness at high volumes, i suspect it is to do with the lower wattage output of the amp
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