D
Deleted member 15865
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Try placing a mat (or Turkish towel) between the equipment and the glass top on the cabinet. See what it does.
Not treated bigger space vs a small space treated acoustically?
- Thread starter SuyashMoorpana
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SuyashMoorpana
Member
@SachinChavan
Hey,
Thanks..can you please let me know what will this help with? or what changes in sound can I expect with this?
Also, just to be sure, I am supposed to keep a towel underneath the amp right? between the amp and the glass?
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D
Deleted member 15865
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I take that back. Towel may not be advisable as it might block the heat dissipation. You can try a wooden board (an inch or so thick, like a kitchen chopping board) instead. Check if that reduces the brightness in the sound. Or simply place it on the floor and check.
SuyashMoorpana
Member
Hi, can you please elaborate on what treatment you got done - what was your room size like, did you use any branded panels and how much area did you cover. How was the sound different vs untreated room. Thanks
girishtd8262
Well-Known Member
Hi my room size is 18*18 ft.initially for 3 yrs I had thick curtains from roof to floor on 3 walls barring screen side.the sound use to be boomy though it was serving the purpose.
Later I contacted anutone.they are into professional acoustics business .they used their company made wool boards .I got it done on 3 walls and part of screen side .it costed me 300 rs per sq feet about 10 months back.they finished work in 5 days workers stayed in the ht room itself as they had come from Bangalore. This has really made difference in sound quality it's more clearer no boomy echoes.
Floor is wooden flooring Nd ceiling is untreated concrete one.
Total it costed me around 1.68 lakhs
Doomster69
Active Member
Hi,
If the main concern is room pressure levels, you may be better off with dual sub set up. Bass management is more about managing room modes (the interplay of physics of sound and the room shape) and treatment is more of a facilitator than a solution. If you do go dual sub, you should do a DSP based correction and blending of subs. Bass managed well will give much gains in sound you feel more than you hear while ensuring high resolution and detail .
If you are looking for controlled soundstage and imaging, room treatment can be a great way to control reverbs and reflection points. There is a good write up from GIY Acoustics on room treatments, reflections and diffusion you may want to refer. Room treatment is also a subtle art, you will need to experiment quite a bit/seek professional inputs for finding that fine balance between diffusion and absorption.
Typically larger rooms are easier to manage above mentioned aspects, compared to smaller rooms, especially w.r.t bass management. There isn't a rule of thumb here and will depend on trial and error. As the key to good sound is taming 'room modes', suggest you get a hang of speaker placement, try fundamental room treatment w.r.t reflection and bass trap and then go from there. Easier way - get a mini DSP and tune speakers using PEQ and curves.
Throwing money at the problem is one way to address the problem - the reason why DIRAC integrated products are much more expensive
The 'trail and error' method may be time and mind consuming, but in the end more fulfilling endeavour! And if doesn't work, well you can always have a professional step in and work the problem for you
If the main concern is room pressure levels, you may be better off with dual sub set up. Bass management is more about managing room modes (the interplay of physics of sound and the room shape) and treatment is more of a facilitator than a solution. If you do go dual sub, you should do a DSP based correction and blending of subs. Bass managed well will give much gains in sound you feel more than you hear while ensuring high resolution and detail .
If you are looking for controlled soundstage and imaging, room treatment can be a great way to control reverbs and reflection points. There is a good write up from GIY Acoustics on room treatments, reflections and diffusion you may want to refer. Room treatment is also a subtle art, you will need to experiment quite a bit/seek professional inputs for finding that fine balance between diffusion and absorption.
Typically larger rooms are easier to manage above mentioned aspects, compared to smaller rooms, especially w.r.t bass management. There isn't a rule of thumb here and will depend on trial and error. As the key to good sound is taming 'room modes', suggest you get a hang of speaker placement, try fundamental room treatment w.r.t reflection and bass trap and then go from there. Easier way - get a mini DSP and tune speakers using PEQ and curves.
Throwing money at the problem is one way to address the problem - the reason why DIRAC integrated products are much more expensive
The 'trail and error' method may be time and mind consuming, but in the end more fulfilling endeavour! And if doesn't work, well you can always have a professional step in and work the problem for you
Thanks for that quick and helpful response. I think the take-away for anyone like me on a tighter budget is tons of experimentation before taking the treatment plunge. I have picky ears but having a hard time pulling the trigger on treatment. Your treatment cost more than my gear put together though
Doomster69
Active Member
Adding to that, I would hazard a guess here - the timing of back reflections and reverbs are also optimised when you go long.... audioholics has a super video on room modes, timing and room treatments talking on this in far more/technical details..To cut a "long" story "short"
With the short wall early reflections (the more villainous ones) are more prominent than they would be in a long wall set up. By moving the speakers along the long wall you change how the reflections interact with the room. They result is often "better" sound.
Doomster69
Active Member
Yes.. most times its the gear pairing that becomes the control parameter for 'ideal sound', provided you have done your bit to address the room physics..Thanks for that quick and helpful response. I think the take-away for anyone like me on a tighter budget is tons of experimentation before taking the treatment plunge. I have picky ears but having a hard time pulling the trigger on treatment. Your treatment cost more than my gear put together though
Doomster69
Active Member
The sub wont do much if your MLP is bang in the null zone of the room... you can counter with DSP correction or dual sub based null compensation
Impact of wires will be subject to your gear pairing/ equipment chain.. they will impact sound in incremental improvements more than absolute terms
Beautiful answer, first of all!
I have a question for you: As someone with a small room (yet to move in), I can't do the 1/3 thing. But can definitely do something about the first reflection point, and of course a carpet - can I then try the 1/4th or 1/5th way?
Thanks and regards
Definitely larger room in my case.I have the same choice,smaller room with some treatment vs larger room with no treatment.Placing the speaker along the long wall in the larger room gives me the best sound with my setup.
@k-pad,
Thanks, but as the old saying goes “for every complex problem there is a solution that is simple and wrong”!!!
I would definitely encourage you to experiment with different positions. It’s a great way to get to know the room acoustics, speakers and your system. A bit hard on the back if you have heavy speakers. Look for imaging, the sound stage width, depth, do the speakers disappear? Toeing in at different angles….you can do it to suit your personal taste. Experiment away you have everything to gain. Select a few albums that are well recorded and you are familiar with to start.
Rear ported speakers experience more bass enhancement when placed close to the wall (too close they get boomy and can muddy up the mids) Also good to keep in mind higher frequencies are directional (they help create the sound stage/image) and hence it helps position tweeters at ear level at your listening position, toed in to a degree.I feel this is dependent on each speaker design as well- some disperse wider with a larger sweet spot, others not so much.
I wish I could give you a definitive answer with precise distances, but I don’t know enough on this. I am generally operating on the belief that moving the speakers further out into the room minimises the reflection effect and decouples it (?)- essentially making it a near field listening experience. I keep moving my speakers a little every now and then, a few inches apart, a bit closer to or away from the back wall etc. I realise many listeners find a spot that “clicks” where they mark it and stick with it. I like the little changes from time to time. My room is 12’X12’ (square rooms are not good acoustically I understand, but that’s what I have).
I do however recall a thread where several FMs discussed precisely measured distances between the front baffle of the speakers and the wall, toeing in etc. I will share the link if I can find it.
Maybe other more knowledgeable FM can advise you better. It would be good if you share the dimensions of your room and the speaker model for this?
Thanks, Analogous.@k-pad,
Thanks, but as the old saying goes “for every complex problem there is a solution that is simple and wrong”!!!
I would definitely encourage you to experiment with different positions. It’s a great way to get to know the room acoustics, speakers and your system. A bit hard on the back if you have heavy speakers. Look for imaging, the sound stage width, depth, do the speakers disappear? Toeing in at different angles….you can do it to suit your personal taste. Experiment away you have everything to gain. Select a few albums that are well recorded and you are familiar with to start.
Rear ported speakers experience more bass enhancement when placed close to the wall (too close they get boomy and can muddy up the mids) Also good to keep in mind higher frequencies are directional (they help create the sound stage/image) and hence it helps position tweeters at ear level at your listening position, toed in to a degree.I feel this is dependent on each speaker design as well- some disperse wider with a larger sweet spot, others not so much.
I wish I could give you a definitive answer with precise distances, but I don’t know enough on this. I am generally operating on the belief that moving the speakers further out into the room minimises the reflection effect and decouples it (?)- essentially making it a near field listening experience. I keep moving my speakers a little every now and then, a few inches apart, a bit closer to or away from the back wall etc. I realise many listeners find a spot that “clicks” where they mark it and stick with it. I like the little changes from time to time. My room is 12’X12’ (square rooms are not good acoustically I understand, but that’s what I have).
I do however recall a thread where several FMs discussed precisely measured distances between the front baffle of the speakers and the wall, toeing in etc. I will share the link if I can find it.
Maybe other more knowledgeable FM can advise you better. It would be good if you share the dimensions of your room and the speaker model for this?
Yet to wrap up shopping. Should be done in a month or so.
Will definitely play around with the distance from the wall.
It's a 12x10 room, and besides the audio equipment, it will also have a work desk.
Will keep you posted.
Will also look around for that thread you mentioned.
Thanks again
Have fun. Here is some information from Cardas. Lots more on the interweb including videos.
These Jaipur razai are giving me great results. They look good as well. Make a roll of it and stuff upper corners of room. They can also be used as wall carpets... Trick is it needs some space behind it.. Atleast 2 inches from wall.
If designs are selected thoughtfully, it can be aesthetically pleasing too without spending huge amounts on absorbers... Or let us put it this way, if these make a difference then go for good absorbers on reflection points.
This the one?@k-pad,
Thanks, but as the old saying goes “for every complex problem there is a solution that is simple and wrong”!!!
I would definitely encourage you to experiment with different positions. It’s a great way to get to know the room acoustics, speakers and your system. A bit hard on the back if you have heavy speakers. Look for imaging, the sound stage width, depth, do the speakers disappear? Toeing in at different angles….you can do it to suit your personal taste. Experiment away you have everything to gain. Select a few albums that are well recorded and you are familiar with to start.
Rear ported speakers experience more bass enhancement when placed close to the wall (too close they get boomy and can muddy up the mids) Also good to keep in mind higher frequencies are directional (they help create the sound stage/image) and hence it helps position tweeters at ear level at your listening position, toed in to a degree.I feel this is dependent on each speaker design as well- some disperse wider with a larger sweet spot, others not so much.
I wish I could give you a definitive answer with precise distances, but I don’t know enough on this. I am generally operating on the belief that moving the speakers further out into the room minimises the reflection effect and decouples it (?)- essentially making it a near field listening experience. I keep moving my speakers a little every now and then, a few inches apart, a bit closer to or away from the back wall etc. I realise many listeners find a spot that “clicks” where they mark it and stick with it. I like the little changes from time to time. My room is 12’X12’ (square rooms are not good acoustically I understand, but that’s what I have).
I do however recall a thread where several FMs discussed precisely measured distances between the front baffle of the speakers and the wall, toeing in etc. I will share the link if I can find it.
Maybe other more knowledgeable FM can advise you better. It would be good if you share the dimensions of your room and the speaker model for this?
Mind the gap!
While there are hundreds of tweaks one can do to one’s system, I am gradually realising that the most impactful change/setting for a system is the gap between the speakers and the front wall. Don’t trust the one foot prescribed by the speaker manufacturer - they also prescribe 40W amp while we...
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