Now, whoz is that?

[arj]

When Sangram reduced the tow-in, it moved the left speaker away from right wall, so the reflections got reduced. But now, the tweeter was not facing you directly and this will cause detail loss. So, he moved it in-line at least in vertical plane and got those details back. Amazing job getting the setup right with an acoustically problematic room.

Cannot comment on it too much without hearing the system but Toe in is not so straightforward as you also, among many others, need to take into account the Off Axis dispersion of the tweeter as well as the seating distance from the speaker plane. (other than rear/front walls and ceiling height !)

Detail loss need not really be equated with toe in IMHO..i am not sure if tweeter designs are suppused to cause detail loss off axis.

While the cupboard has glass, it is in panes with Wood panels so depending on where you sit it could also have some limited diffussion which may work out in favour..
Dont want to intellectualise it too from the picture and i may not be very correct above as well , but am pretty sure sangram and Asit would have considered the above as well

I remember a log discussion in another forum where a expert in acoustics was mentioning about toe out being the best combination for a room :thumbsup: .

 

[manoj.p]

Cannot comment on it too much without hearing the system but Toe in is not so straightforward as you also, among many others, need to take into account the Off Axis dispersion of the tweeter as well as the seating distance from the speaker plane. (other than rear/front walls and ceiling height !)

Detail loss need not really be equated with toe in IMHO..i am not sure if tweeter designs are suppused to cause detail loss off axis.

Well true. There are speakers which have great off-axis performance and there are speakers which have not so great off-axis response. If the speaker is not great off-axis, then you need to have toe-in. How much toe-in depends on how far speaker maintains the dispersion. There are different tweeters which either give best possible on-axis performance or little bit less in lieu of wider off-axis performance.

But one thing is for sure. ALL the speakers will have their best performance On-axis. So, having the toe-in will definitely ensure that. But the fallout of that is the speaker is facing the opposite wall directly and if its a narrow room, then reflections come into picture.

While the cupboard has glass, it is in panes with Wood panels so depending on where you sit it could also have some limited diffusion which may work out in favour.. Dont want to intellectualise it too from the picture and i may not be very correct above as well , but am pretty sure sangram and Asit would have considered the above as well

Diffusion is preferred but on the adjacent walls only. Not on the opposite walls. Reflections of the left speaker from left walls should be diffused and it helps widen the soundstage. The same left speaker's reflection from right wall will make the sound appear from right side too, and that will affect the imaging a lot and muddy it. If the reflections are too strong, then imaging goes out the door.

In case of Asit, I know there is panes too. But that's still quite flat. It will definitely not be diffusing.

I remember a log discussion in another forum where a expert in acoustics was mentioning about toe out being the best combination for a room :thumbsup: .

quite true. Unless the room is challenged.

 

[Asit]

Manoj & Arj,
Thank you both for your insightful posts. Actually, apart from offering a bigger place so that the speakers could be placed at least 9 ft apart, in my estimation, my old apartment was even worse for the set-up. On the right side was a huge glass sliding door, and the left side was empty. In comparison, here in the new apartment, the right side again has glass in the form of the huge book-shelf (almost 11ft by 10 ft), but the left side is not actually open (you do not see that in the picture). On the extreme end of the left side, there is a corridor, and then a wall starts. The speakers are placed along the short side (13-14 ft) of the room. The room is longish (about 25 ft). BTW, there was one good thing about the previous place. On the back wall (i.e., behind the listening position) there was a huge wall shelf (without doors) packed with books, now in contrast there is nothing behind the listening position. There is a sliding door (about 14-15ft away from the listening position) opening up to a balcony.

Now, I think it would be clear to you why I was disappointed initially not to get a similar if not better imaging, sound staging and clarity in my new place. Any way, now the problem is solved.

Regards.

 

[pratimbayal]

Sorry for stepping in Asit.

Actually I wanted to thank all who came on 30th evening and spent some time. Like in Asit's case it was a great learning for me that day about speaker placement and some other adjustments. This time Asit himself made the biggest adjustment by towing out speaker by considerable degree. Than sangram finetuned the gap from the back wall, readjusted the the frequency of the super tweeter ( I have separate super twteeter ST 200 paired with the speaker ) . Aslo the super twteer placement was altered , from the one recomended in the mannual , with great effect. Earlier , I placed my speaker just following the instruction in the mannual. The sound became smooth , extended, and musical.


Pairing with Leben CS300 was an wonderfull experience. Some how tube sounded relatively better with Turnberry on that day. It was more open and musical. 12 watt of CS 300 was sufficient to bring out the required depth and tightness of the baas. It was right. We could not cross the 10 o clock position of the volumn knob.

Really enjoyble evening and great learning too.


Cheers

 

[santhosh]

Hi Pratim,
Congrats on purchase of the Turnberrys. They are very good speakers, I have heard the Turnberrys extensively with the ST200 at Abhi's place in Singapore. I'd suggest you use the provided template for locating the supertweeter as this is important for time and phase coherence. Please post pics and details of your system.