Philips 242 - Hum not going away

[kartick]

I have one Philips 242 TT which I picked up from a friend's garage for free. I cleaned it up nicely and reconnected some broken wires in the belly of the turntable. I got the RCA cable changed as well as it was not in proper shape. I found the tonearm wires very very fragile and of low quality, quite understandable as the TT itself is an entry level one. It has a Classic 700 cartridge installed on it. I had to re-solder the connections at the back of the cartridge.

Right from the very first day I have found a loud buzz when I play that TT. The earthing wire was earthed to the back of the TT itself on one of the metal contacts (I hope it was the correct thing to do). When this did not work, I extended that wire to connect to the GND terminal of my integrated amp, which did not help also.

I reckon the following possibilities for the hum :
1) The RCA cable - I feel the RCA cable was of low quality (Rs. 60) and hence does not have proper shielding. While the TT is powered on and connected to the amp, on pressing the RCA cable the hum increases and when i leave it, it reduces.
2) Tonearm Wires - Flimsy wires and soldering with the connections at the back of the cartridge are causing the hum.
3) Ground Wire

Should I get the tone arm and the RCA cable changed to eliminate the hum ? Please advise.

 

[miroflex]

Hi Kartick,

It could be AC hum generated by the motor or its associated circuit. If so, it could be cured by proper shielding and grounding of the power cable.

All the best.

 

[kartick]

What would be the best ways to do that ?

 

[sachu888]

I have one Philips 242 TT which I picked up from a friend's garage for free. I cleaned it up nicely and reconnected some broken wires in the belly of the turntable. I got the RCA cable changed as well as it was not in proper shape. I found the tonearm wires very very fragile and of low quality, quite understandable as the TT itself is an entry level one. It has a Classic 700 cartridge installed on it. I had to re-solder the connections at the back of the cartridge.

Right from the very first day I have found a loud buzz when I play that TT. The earthing wire was earthed to the back of the TT itself on one of the metal contacts (I hope it was the correct thing to do). When this did not work, I extended that wire to connect to the GND terminal of my integrated amp, which did not help also.

I reckon the following possibilities for the hum :
1) The RCA cable - I feel the RCA cable was of low quality (Rs. 60) and hence does not have proper shielding. While the TT is powered on and connected to the amp, on pressing the RCA cable the hum increases and when i leave it, it reduces.
2) Tonearm Wires - Flimsy wires and soldering with the connections at the back of the cartridge are causing the hum.
3) Ground Wire

Should I get the tone arm and the RCA cable changed to eliminate the hum ? Please advise.

You may have ruined your cartridge by soldering.Soldering is not recommended.There might be many problems associated with your tt hum like grounding/RF,EMI or feedback problem.
1.Please check grounding wire for proper connection.
2.Try to Replace current interconnects with better quality low capacitance video cables.This should get rid of EMI/RF
3.Move your TT as far as possible from AMP and Speakers.This should solve your feedback problem.
Post your feedback here once you have done.

Regards,
Sachin

 

[mrunalrane]

hi. kartick
philips 242 is the best of what u have.
dont under estimate the model because of philips.
eventhough entry level . superb piece can beat any turntable in quality. my challange. i have a philps 208 tt made in holland. 242 also.
it has a shock aborb system. . shock absorb systm is so good u play any lp and slightly bang the side of tt it will not miss any track. compared with technics or any brand shock absorbs r the best.
the problm u have can b the grnd problm.
u have classic 700 cartrdg ,ok
chk the polarity of cartrdge plus/ minus
the base has a silver foil paper for earthing which touches by a contact to tt
242 dont have earthing cable extra as others have.
use a good quality cable . the original arm wire r vry delicate for solder u have to take care . also chk cartdg . in the arm where u fit the cartdg u have the grnd cable chk that. how is the intensity of hum ? do u get audio ? if played.
bye let u know if any other clue found best of luck.
dont give ur 242 the best and sturdy piece for vinyls

 

[miroflex]

Hi,

First ground the existing power cord at both ends. Route the leads from the cartridge as far away from the power cord as possible (within the record player cabinet). If this does not cure the problem, fix an L-shaped aluminium shield, cut from an aluminium sheet by the side of the motor to shield the pick-up or cartridge lead wires.

Regards.

 

[mrunalrane]

hi , kartik
did ur problm get solvd ?
give us ur feedback....

 

[reubensm]

Assuming that you have an amp with a working phono stage (which has been tried and tested with a working TT)

1) carefully check your cartridge for an open circuit
2) ensure you've connected the cartridge correctly (do you have a pin configuration/wiring diagram? this is very important as cartridges may have their own wiring syntax)
3) you may have a broken circuit between your cartridge and cables to the amp, check the tonearm wiring for open circuit
4) check your cabling from the turntable to amp, also check the RCAs

Assume you have a digital multimeter at your disposal.

 

[kartick]

You may have ruined your cartridge by soldering.Soldering is not recommended.There might be many problems associated with your tt hum like grounding/RF,EMI or feedback problem.
1.Please check grounding wire for proper connection.
2.Try to Replace current interconnects with better quality low capacitance video cables.This should get rid of EMI/RF
3.Move your TT as far as possible from AMP and Speakers.This should solve your feedback problem.
Post your feedback here once you have done.

Regards,
Sachin

Hi Sachin,

I did not solder directly on the cartridge. By soldering I meant, I had soldered the metallic connectors onto the tonearm wire terminals.
1. I have in fact tried fiddling around with the grounding option, but to no avail.
2. I am yet to try and replace the existing cable with a decent RCA cable, maybe with an MX one.
3. I did try moving it away to eliminate the possible feedback, but that did not help too.

Anyways, I shall try to get this checked by an electronics guy for proper grounding, in case I am not doing it right. Would let you know how it goes.

 

[kartick]

hi. kartick
philips 242 is the best of what u have.
dont under estimate the model because of philips.
eventhough entry level . superb piece can beat any turntable in quality. my challange. i have a philps 208 tt made in holland. 242 also.
it has a shock aborb system. . shock absorb systm is so good u play any lp and slightly bang the side of tt it will not miss any track. compared with technics or any brand shock absorbs r the best.
the problm u have can b the grnd problm.
u have classic 700 cartrdg ,ok
chk the polarity of cartrdge plus/ minus
the base has a silver foil paper for earthing which touches by a contact to tt
242 dont have earthing cable extra as others have.
use a good quality cable . the original arm wire r vry delicate for solder u have to take care . also chk cartdg . in the arm where u fit the cartdg u have the grnd cable chk that. how is the intensity of hum ? do u get audio ? if played.
bye let u know if any other clue found best of luck.
dont give ur 242 the best and sturdy piece for vinyls

Hey Mrunal,
I am just not figuring out how to fix the grounding problem. I am not sure if it is grounding which is the only problem here.

The intensity of the hum is quite strong. And as I wrote earlier, it gets louder if I press the RCA cable. Even if nothing is played on the TT, it does give out a HUM. And yes I do get audio out when I play an LP on the TT. The Hum is still there and spoils the fun. Also the output of the quality is lesser when compared to my Denon DP-37f which sports an Audio Technica cartridge.

And I really like this Philips TT, thats why I want it to sing again. The only thing I find iffy is the tonearm. It is just too light.

Hope I am able to solve this problem soon. Thanks for your reply.

 

[kartick]

Assuming that you have an amp with a working phono stage (which has been tried and tested with a working TT)

1) carefully check your cartridge for an open circuit
2) ensure you've connected the cartridge correctly (do you have a pin configuration/wiring diagram? this is very important as cartridges may have their own wiring syntax)
3) you may have a broken circuit between your cartridge and cables to the amp, check the tonearm wiring for open circuit
4) check your cabling from the turntable to amp, also check the RCAs

Assume you have a digital multimeter at your disposal.

Hey Reuben,

Your assumption's correct, I do have an amp with working phono which plays my Denon TT.

I am not that well versed with electronics and fear that I might worsen the situation if I try the steps that you have proposed without any supervision. Although I did connect the cartridge correctly with the tonearm wires (following the color coding scheme).

I would be taking it to one TT mechanic that I know of. I am really desperate to get this problem solved.

Thnks for the reply.

 

[ukjeyaraj]

1) Is the Hum coming only after platter starts to rotate, or immediately after powered on also

2) Just let the turntable on with platter rotating. Touch the centre spindle with your finger and check if hum decreases. If it does so, it should be just earthing and nothing else.

 

[reubensm]

dont worry, this is surely an elementary problem and you should be able to get it fixed easily.

 

[kartick]

Hi Guys,

Great News. The TT is singing again and I am very happy :yahoo: .

The main reason of the problem was Earthing.

Here is how the problem was solved :
1. The length of the RCA cable which I had connected to the TT was about 3 meters. I realised that the longer the cable, the more the HUM. Hence I cut the wire short to about 1 meter.

2. On the inside of the TT, I found that the 2 ground wires from the tonearm were clubbed and soldered to the inside of the TT, Which was increasing the HUM alot. Hence I separated the left and right tone arm ground wires and soldered them separately with the the right and left channel wires of the RCA cable. This decreased the HUM further.

3. The ground wire of the TT was pasted to the aluminium coating on the inside of the cover of the TT. In addition to this I took out one additional ground wire from that same terminal and connected it to the GND terminal of the amplifier.

Using all these 3 steps, the hum has reduced to 98% of what it was before. Earlier it was totally unbearable, even on touching the head shell, it used to amplify to levels that were crazy. A little bit of it is still there but it once any track is played, I can not hear it anymore. Also, even when I touch the RCA cable after it has been connected to the amp, the hum comes back but on readjusting it a little it goes away. So I am guessing the problem has not been solved to a 100%, but to keep this TT as my backup TT, it is working pretty well.

I am just a novice and tried these steps as a hit and trial method, I do not know if this was the best way to go about it but this worked for me and I am very very happy. Merry Christmas to me. :clapping:

Thanks to all of you for chipping in with your ideas. I really admire this TT for being so simplistic and it performs better than I thought it was capable of . I was underestimating it. Now I have to make this TT look like a new one. I shall have to re-polish the wood, clean the face of the TT and shine the platter with Mincream and some polish. I shall post some pics soon.

 

[reubensm]

Great to know that your TT is singing again...a 3 meter long cable from a TT to an amp can be termed as audio blasphemy

 

[kartick]

Great to know that your TT is singing again...a 3 meter long cable from a TT to an amp can be termed as audio blasphemy

I am learning from my mistakes . Its good that I have a first hand experience of this problem. This cable which I had put on was my very first attempt to revive the TT after I had decided to step in the vinyl world. I could have never imagined, the length of the cable would have created problems too.

 

[Tanoj]

Hello kartic

1. major issue was hum, and yes it as earthing which fixed the issue,

the steps what you did are exactly the same what I did too, then after that there are few things I did different

bellow the tt , where you find the tone arm wires come and get solder on a small piece , to which you must have soldered to RCA cable, you will find a cable of earthing ,
this earthing cable also connects to other circuit too

what I did is I have provided earthing only to the circuit boards and not to the toner arm cables


2. a direct cable os 4 square , best quality I soldered it and it goes directly to the earthing , no breaks inbetween, also I got my earthing checked with electrician, what he did is used a 100 Watt bulb, and had pluged in 1 wire to the phase and other one to the earthing and checked if the bulb is glowing, if yes then earth is good and also the more the brightness of buld is sign that earth is good


and yes Philps sound is nice and warm, the base is tight and i love the vocals ,

Cheers do not worry it is a very common issue and older tt's need patience and we must give then time so that it will slowly set itself , yes most of the time it gets fixed automatically, i belive since it was not used for so many years the components are acting , mine is all set and iam planing to upgrade the cartridge with either Shure M97xE or denon 110 , hope it suits my tt

Tanoj

 

[kartick]

Hello kartic

1. major issue was hum, and yes it as earthing which fixed the issue,

the steps what you did are exactly the same what I did too, then after that there are few things I did different

bellow the tt , where you find the tone arm wires come and get solder on a small piece , to which you must have soldered to RCA cable, you will find a cable of earthing ,
this earthing cable also connects to other circuit too

what I did is I have provided earthing only to the circuit boards and not to the toner arm cables


2. a direct cable os 4 square , best quality I soldered it and it goes directly to the earthing , no breaks inbetween, also I got my earthing checked with electrician, what he did is used a 100 Watt bulb, and had pluged in 1 wire to the phase and other one to the earthing and checked if the bulb is glowing, if yes then earth is good and also the more the brightness of buld is sign that earth is good


and yes Philps sound is nice and warm, the base is tight and i love the vocals ,

Cheers do not worry it is a very common issue and older tt's need patience and we must give then time so that it will slowly set itself , yes most of the time it gets fixed automatically, i belive since it was not used for so many years the components are acting , mine is all set and iam planing to upgrade the cartridge with either Shure M97xE or denon 110 , hope it suits my tt

Tanoj

Thanks Tanoj for sharing your experience here. Small tips are also very very useful at times when nothing else comes to mind. By the way there is another thread here talking about the cartridge for a Philips 242. I would recommend you to go through the same before finalizing the cart for your tt.

Cheers !!
Kartick

 

[anil242]

Hi all,
I have a perfect working Philips electronic 242 turntable which is at present connected to Philips hi fi stero system. I would now wamt to connect my turntable to my bose amplifier. Can anyone guide me how to do it in simple language?
Thanking you all in advance

 

[reubensm]

Sorry, wrong post. Thanks.